Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[Repeat 3-peat]

It's hilarious when fans call Fred a yes man.

He would have never left Iowa State where he was treated basically like a god just to leave to be a "yes man".

[Googjob]

It's hilarious when fans call Fred a yes man.

He would have never left Iowa State where he was treated basically like a god just to leave to be a "yes man".

He's getting paid double what he was at Iowa State. $2.5 million more a year will get most people out of Ames.

[Axl Rose]

Are things like Snell getting punked on the glass play after play by Luc Mbah a Moute and then being yelled at by his center being taken care of by Hoiberg? Jimmy appears not to believe that is the case. From a fan's perspective, Snell has been given a pretty long leash by Fred

whats Fred to do? suit up and play small forward for us? he is being forced to play Snell due to lack of better options....if only we could get rid one of these big men for a somewhat decent wing player already

[Googjob]

whats Fred to do? suit up and play small forward for us? he is being forced to play Snell due to lack of better options....if only we could get rid one of this big men for a somewhat decent wing player already

How about run some semblance of an offense with the other guys on the court? This is a team that now has a worse offense than Denver who starts Joffrey Lauvergne and a 19 year old.

[whitesocks]

Sounds to me like Jimmy is more mad at his teammates than Fred. He's not complaining about subs or tactics, he's saying some guys aren't trying hard enough and they need to be called out.

Yeah I took this as more of an indictment on Rose or maybe Snell.

[fleet]

Are things like Snell getting punked on the glass play after play by Luc Mbah a Moute and then being yelled at by his center being taken care of by Hoiberg? Jimmy appears not to believe that is the case. From a fan's perspective, Snell has been given a pretty long leash by Fred

whats Fred to do? suit up and play small forward for us?

On that specifically, can't tell you. The whole issue here is that Jimmy has some beefs. I'm not the one who has to be happy about Hoiberg.

[SearsTower]

The only 2 guys I can see benefiting from "harder coaching" would be Snell and Mirotic. Neither of those guys plays with any fire or toughness.

[Googjob]

It's not about playing hard. It's about playing well. The team looks lost offensively under Hoiberg. They are 27th in the league for heaven sake. That's a systemic problem that goes much deeper than a couple guys loafing.

[Repeat 3-peat]

It's hilarious when fans call Fred a yes man.

He would have never left Iowa State where he was treated basically like a god just to leave to be a "yes man".

He's getting paid double what he was at Iowa State. $2.5 million more a year will get most people out of Ames.

Lol, You have no idea how Hoiberg had it made at Ames.

Other teams interviewed him also(Orlando, Minnesota, Boston even offered him a job before they hired Stevens). But he liked it here and seen potential with guys like Jimmy, Doug, Niko & even Rose to a point.

No signs point to Fred being a yes man besides him knowing GarPax for a long time. But that just shows there's a respect between them.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Offense sucks because of Rose, Snell, a declining Pau, regressed Niko & a bunch of other inconsistent players on the team.

[fleet]

The only 2 guys I can see benefiting from "harder coaching" would be Snell and Mirotic. Neither of those guys plays with any fire or toughness.

From Jimmy's comments, sounds as if the team or some guys were not doing the gameplan the way it was written on the board, and Hoiberg didn't say anything about it. "Harder coaching" could also be used to address a lack of adherence and accountability to what they were told to do, not only about fire and toughness.

It's not about playing hard. It's about playing well. The team looks lost offensively under Hoiberg. They are 27th in the league for heaven sake. That's a systemic problem that goes much deeper than a couple guys loafing.

Baaang! /Breen

[WestsideResider]

Who the hell does Jimmy think he is? I like his game but damn he needs to start keeping his mouth shut or choosing his words more carefully. Make one all-star game and you think you have free reign to call out the head coach smh.

Hoiball does stink though.

[CmonScal]

Fred Hoiberg has a pacemaker in his heart. He's had multiple cardiac procedures. A long NBA career, a strong showing in the FO in Minny and a distinguished resume in NCAA.

I doubt he gives 2 flying **** on how Jimmy thinks he should coach the team. Especially, when that feedback is delivered via the media.

Jimmy - you made your money, you are playing well, just know that your hardship to success story doesn't mean other folks in the NBA don't have the same stories.

Fred's paid his dues already.

Fred's paid his dues already - what does that mean? That he can sit back and let the team coach itself? We've seen this season that Fred Hoiberg has been a below average NBA coach. We've passed the quarter point of the season and he still doesn't understand how to manage simple NBA rotations and substitutions. That's not to say he can't get better - I certainly would bet he will in the future. But because he's been around the league a while means that we all can give him a pass? You know who else "paid his dues already"? Byron Scott. Sam Mitchell. I simply don't see how paying your dues makes you infallible.

Speaking to a larger point, I'm not entirely bothered by Jimmy's comments because I think it's going to mix things up in the locker room quite a bit. Could that be bad for the team? There's a possibility. However, continuing with the current status quo won't result in anything good, so I'd rather have someone looking to change things than standing pat and accepting mediocrity.

[Himay6]

I don't see why everyone is trying to make jimmy seem like the bad guy. If you look at the full quote it appears as if he has been trying to get guys going with Hoiball or the game plan and they still aren't responding. If he's been doing this a lot and the coach doesn't have the balls to get the rest of the team on board what other option do you have besides voice it to the media?

I honestly don't blame him I'd be frustrated too. Not every team is going to be the Warriors. Everyone once in a while needs a foot up their ass to get going. And if Hoiberg is incapable of doing that, and holding guys accountable we are going to have problems.

[bentheredengthat]

Sounds to me like Jimmy is more mad at his teammates than Fred. He's not complaining about subs or tactics, he's saying some guys aren't trying hard enough and they need to be called out.

My read too. Not sure if Jimmy is annoyed at certain players and is hinting they need to step it up, or more of a general belief that teams play better when a coach kicks their ass sometimes. It might be the latter, as he has often said that he needs to step it up too.

Yeah me too. Not sure what all the uproar on the board is about.

He's frustrated about how some of his teammates are responding (or not) to coaching.

I mean the guy is obviously working balls to the walls on his game and has high expectations for himself and his teammates. I would be frustrated too in his position. He just wants to weeun & leave it all on the court like the Bulls of a few years ago.

Not saying what he said and when he said it was appropriate, but I don't blame him for being frustrated.

[TyrusRose2425]

Also remember that Butler and Thibs were real close. The Bulls fired him in one of the most disrespectful ways possible and brought in a clueless yes man. He's probably really pissed off.

Butler was one of the guys that wanted Thibs out

[Jimako10]

Thats a very interesting situation. 5 years. If Fred is a failed coach, what then? Keep playing roster roulette to buy him time over and over?

Best case scenario, Fred is good enough to be an effective coach, and this will be a short transition to the new roster that works for him. Jimmy may never be that happy, but he'll soldier on with some dependable people. The Bulls want Fred to be Steve Kerr with the Warriors, and treat the players like grown men that police themselves like professionals. According to Jimmy, work to be done aquiring such a dream.

Steve Kerr was able to do what he did because he had guys who were more than willing to accept change and buy in. Here, Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol and Jimmy Butler have shown little interest in doing what's required.

People can blame Fred for not getting that buy in, but I think it's far more likely that the egotistical players on this roster are to blame for the teams dysfunction than the coaches.

Many thought Thibodeau was the problem. He wasn't an angel, nor was he a victim, but the issues from last season linger on. The one constant through all this is the players.

Until they actually take some ownership, they're aren't going anywhere.

Steve Kerr has been part of several systems in his career, and he put in a system that fits the players, not the other way around. That is the major difference between the two. He had young athletes who can run and shoot, and he saw that he had the perfect PG that can be the captain of the show. There wasn't much roster turnover between Mark Jackson and Steve Kerr, and look at the difference. What we have here is a one trick pony that is Hoiberg trying to implement a system that the players don't seem to fit in, and that's going to be hard enough when the players don't respect a newbie coach. Say what you want about Thibs, the players always respected him and his work ethic, that was unquestioned.

The issue is the offense, period. Nobody predicted the offense would be this bad, and mostly everyone thought Hoiberg would easily turn this team into a top 5 offense (even though the supposed offensively inept Thibs had this exact team at a top 10 efficiency, even with all the injuries last year). This team is not made for pace and space. It's meant for a slow it down, grind you to death, iso and post offense system, because that's what Butler, Rose, and Gasol would thrive in. And if there's one thing Thibs did in his tenure here, it was that he ALWAYS put his players in positions to succeed, it was just up to them to execute. Thinking that pace and space is this brand new thing that would work with any roster is just a fools errand.

[Rerisen]

Jimmy is stuck here for 4 more years. Don't think he wants to replay last year with this team. And that's exactly the track they are on.

His comments aren't PC but if they can disrupt this elevated mediocrity enough to cause a change, he might just be sly like a fox.

This is not the way to disrupt.

Worked for Kobe.

[Rerisen]

Jimmy always talks about being a better leader and having to be one and yet this season he seems to be doing everything to be anything but a good leader. I give him rope because he is new to this role, but the one thing he needs to eventually learn is that it's much more productive to say the things that he feels to the people directly and behind closed doors and not lay out your dirty laundry out to the media, because I don't think I've ever seen anything positive happen with that method.

It's not at the point of being devastating to the team but if he continues on his way, as opposed to being a leader his teammates will eventually turn on him and leave him to drive when sh*t hits the fan. And once that happens you get a ruputation around the league also.

The thing is he has been nothing but a upstanding professional thus far, so as long as he takes a breathe, and finds a different method to release his frustrations he will be fine. Right now, he is letting out his frustration through the media and he will realize it's not the most effective way.

I still believe in Jimmy. If he learned to turn himself into an All-star player, I have faith that he will turn himself into a good leader also.

Jimmy is frustrated imo, because to start the year he tried to take on the leadership mantle, and it hasn't taken for the team. Instead they still play with the inconsistency and effort represented in the games of Pau and Rose.

Jimmy tries to speak up in the huddle and on the floor, and gets nowhere, so he is finally looking to bump it up the chain and try to get some help from Fred, when the team isn't executing the gameplan.

And we know it isn't recent, as they haven't been doing what Fred wants on offense for the whole year.

[bullsRlife]

Jimmy always talks about being a better leader and having to be one and yet this season he seems to be doing everything to be anything but a good leader. I give him rope because he is new to this role, but the one thing he needs to eventually learn is that it's much more productive to say the things that he feels to the people directly and behind closed doors and not lay out your dirty laundry out to the media, because I don't think I've ever seen anything positive happen with that method.

It's not at the point of being devastating to the team but if he continues on his way, as opposed to being a leader his teammates will eventually turn on him and leave him to drive when sh*t hits the fan. And once that happens you get a ruputation around the league also.

The thing is he has been nothing but a upstanding professional thus far, so as long as he takes a breathe, and finds a different method to release his frustrations he will be fine. Right now, he is letting out his frustration through the media and he will realize it's not the most effective way.

I still believe in Jimmy. If he learned to turn himself into an All-star player, I have faith that he will turn himself into a good leader also.

Jimmy is frustrated imo, because to start the year he tried to take on the leadership mantle, and it hasn't taken for the team. Instead they still play with the inconsistency and effort represented in the games of Pau and Rose.

Jimmy tries to speak up in the huddle and on the floor, and gets nowhere, so he is finally looking to bump it up the chain and try to get some help from Fred, when the team isn't executing the gameplan.

And we know it isn't recent, as they haven't been doing what Fred wants on offense for the whole year.

Most likely is the case, but why put it out there for everyone to hear, and for the media to spin this every which way? This accomplishes nothing, but bringing unnecessary negative vibes to this team. He could have easily said this straight to Fred, or even called a team meeting/talk to the guys in the locker room. He had no tact when it comes to situations like these.

And I'm not directing my post at you, Rerisen. Thought you brought up a good theory, and wanted to expound my feelings on Jimmy's dumb behavior.