Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[weneeda2guard]

Wouldn't be that upset if we got Wiggins & Dunn tbh. Cavs got 2 #1 overall picks for K Love.

Wiggins seems be underwhelming to the player he was projected to be.

Wolves fans also question his drive.

Then Dunn is about as mediocre of a prospect you can get.

Another guy from one of those "deep" drafts smh

People post like it's proven nba commodities laying all over place and we can just suck and grab a couple guys and be a real "contender" smh truth is, finding proven nba commodities are a crap shoot, and the draft has no sure fire franchise guys like when shaq, lebron duncan came etc.

Even with the evidence that more times than not, tanking gets you nowhere and you just pretty much have to be lucky as hell to get a quality nba franchise player evidence by teams with those guys, most not projected to be such.

[the ultimates]

The only reliable source Bucher has had on the Bulls was Reggie Rose. I think people are way overhyping this upcoming draft class especially considering two potential lottery picks in it have had major knee injuries. Hell I think this class would be hard pressed to be better than Derrick's class.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html

[Poohdini1]

Trading a proven player for unknowns is a really risky proposition. Has any franchise done this successfully? I can't think of any.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Usually in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.

I don't think there's anything to this though. It's 2017 journalism; throw **** at the wall and wait for people to smell it.

Don't think any team in the last few years has won the trade after giving up the all star. Jazz did pretty well getting Favors for D Will but that's about it. Magic lost the Howard trade, Denver lost the Melo trade, OKC lost the Harden trade.

[BigUps]

Trading a proven player for unknowns is a really risky proposition. Has any franchise done this successfully? I can't think of any.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Usually in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.

I don't think there's anything to this though. It's 2017 journalism; throw **** at the wall and wait for people to smell it.

Agreed. I'm not buying this at all. However, if it is true history says its a bad idea.

[waffle]

Picks or players? I'd guess almost exclusively picks?

BUT

I doubt the rumor

[johnnyvann840]

Wouldn't be that upset if we got Wiggins & Dunn tbh. Cavs got 2 #1 overall picks for K Love.

Wiggins seems be underwhelming to the player he was projected to be.

Wolves fans also question his drive.

Then Dunn is about as mediocre of a prospect you can get.

Another guy from one of those "deep" drafts smh

People post like it's proven nba commodities laying all over place and we can just suck and grab a couple guys and be a real "contender" smh truth is, finding proven nba commodities are a crap shoot, and the draft has no sure fire franchise guys like when shaq, lebron duncan came etc.

Even with the evidence that more times than not, tanking gets you nowhere and you just pretty much have to be lucky as hell to get a quality nba franchise player evidence by teams with those guys, most not projected to be such.

It would be interesting to go back ten years and look at the 1st round picks from every draft up to about 5 years ago and see how many of them panned out... top 10 guys who were all stars or even just really great players to have.... how many are out of the league and how many just busted... how many are still hanging around but not really impact guys.

[Ice Man]

Usually in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.

Anywhere, really. More in the NBA because only 5 guys can play at once. But it holds true for other sports. I remember my Athletics trading Ricky Henderson to the Yankees for 5 young guys. I was excited. 5 prospects! Bill James wrote, "When you have a player like Ricky Henderson, that's like a Van Gogh. You don't trade it. You try to get more."

He was right. A few years later all the froth had disappeared and the only guy left kicking tail was Ricky Henderson. We got quantity, they got quality.

[Mech Engineer]

If management presumably are in hot water because of bad decisions made in the past, why would they be empowered to move Butler, despite Reinsdorf not being interested in a rebuild?

Not sure if you've read the whole thread, but that's the exact same question I asked earlier.

Makes no sense.

It doesn't make any sense. But, our organization has done a lot of things that do not make any sense in the last few years.

Just saying. I don't care if Bucher is "right" or not... it just wouldn't surprise me if Jimmy got traded soon.

Remember Pax or Gar have never said even once that they will build around Jimmy like they said about Derrick. That said, they might be scared to commit to anything after the Derrick experience.

[BigUps]

Trading a proven player for unknowns is a really risky proposition. Has any franchise done this successfully? I can't think of any.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Usually in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.

I don't think there's anything to this though. It's 2017 journalism; throw **** at the wall and wait for people to smell it.

Don't think any team in the last few years has won the trade after giving up the all star. Jazz did pretty well getting Favors for D Will but that's about it. Magic lost the Howard trade, Denver lost the Melo trade, OKC lost the Harden trade.

Exactly. Its like trading for an elite QB. It never happens and never works. Just ask the Bears.

[Red Larrivee]

Don't think any team in the last few years has won the trade after giving up the all star. Jazz did pretty well getting Favors for D Will but that's about it. Magic lost the Howard trade, Denver lost the Melo trade, OKC lost the Harden trade.

Yeah, aside from Utah trading Deron Williams, I'm having trouble thinking of a team that improved their franchise by trading an all-star/superstar talent. It just doesn't happen much in the NBA.

It's why trading a bonafide stud for upside and hope is fools gold.

[BigUps]

Usually in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.

Anywhere, really. More in the NBA because only 5 guys can play at once. But it holds true for other sports. I remember my Athletics trading Ricky Henderson to the Yankees for 5 young guys. I was excited. 5 prospects! Bill James wrote, "When you have a player like Ricky Henderson, that's like a Van Gogh. You don't trade it. You try to get more."

He was right. A few years later all the froth had disappeared and the only guy left kicking tail was Ricky Henderson. We got quantity, they got quality.

This is why Theo Epstein is a god. He made dozens of deals and a ton of picks and really didn't miss. It was abnormal in just about every way possible.

[fleet]

Wait, did Bucher say they were in hot water? I thought the other guy said that.

They wouldn't have to be in hot water anyway to trade him. They just need to have a plan and pull the trigger. Motivation is not hot water. Motivation is that the team has turned down a dead end street no outlet.

[weneeda2guard]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deshawn-stevenson

Let's just say nbadraft.net doesn't know ****.

DeShawn Stevenson, one of many great gems from the 2000 class, just as nbadraft.net predicted...

Kenyon Martin - Rasheed Wallace
Stromile Swift - Shawn Kemp
Darius Miles - Tracy McGrady
Marcus Fizer - Charles Barkley
Mike Miller - Lamar Odom
DerMarr Johnson - Scottie Pippen
Keyon Dooling - Steve Francis
Jerome Moiso - Kevin Garnett
Jason Collier - Vlade Divac
Desmond Mason - Michael Finley
Quentin Richardson - Paul Pierce
Donnell Harvey - Dennis Rodman
Erick Barkley - Nate "Tiny" Archibald
Mark Madsen - Charles Oakley

Whoever made the Fizer/Barkley comp should be banned from basketball for life.

Yet every couple drafts, here comes "the deepest draft in years " talk,

not like these people can come right out and say, well honestly all these guys suck.

[GetBuLLish]

Motivation is that the team has turned down a dead end street no outlet.

Exactly. The people that criticize the so-called tanking method constantly fail to demonstrate how the Bulls can become a contender simply going down the path they are on now.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

If we do this it has to be a nuclear rebuild right?

Our front office is a mess and so is our roster I have hard time believing Gar would be trusted to stay, Pax on the other hand might be cleaning house tearing it all down again to take over all of it again?

[BigUps]

Don't think any team in the last few years has won the trade after giving up the all star. Jazz did pretty well getting Favors for D Will but that's about it. Magic lost the Howard trade, Denver lost the Melo trade, OKC lost the Harden trade.

Yeah, aside from Utah trading Deron Williams, I'm having trouble thinking of a team that improved their franchise by trading an all-star/superstar talent. It just doesn't happen much in the NBA.

It's why trading a bonafide stud for upside and hope is fools gold.

Nice thread here breaking down the superstar trades. You'll see, trading a star is not a good idea.

viewtopic.php?t=1374523

[johnnyvann840]

The only reliable source Bucher has had on the Bulls was Reggie Rose. I think people are way overhyping this upcoming draft class especially considering two potential lottery picks in it have had major knee injuries. Hell I think this class would be hard pressed to be better than Derrick's class.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2008.html

Regarding my last post from a few minutes ago.... let's take this draft for instance... ''

Look at the top 15

Rose
Beasley
Mayo
Westbrook
Love
Gallinari
E. Gordon
J. Alexander
Augustin
B. Lopez
J Bayless
J Thompson
B Rush
A Randolph
R Lopez

One franchise changing player still playing. Rose was too but was cut short before his prime. A lot of busts... a lot of huge disappointments..

[Ice Man]

If we do this it has to be a nuclear rebuild right?

Yep. It would make no sense to trade Jimmy for Crowder, Smart, etc. -- a bunch of OK guys who can never be stars. Then your team wins enough games not to get great picks, and you are worse off, you have no star now. You'd have to do this for very young prospects who can't yet help you win and/or picks. Nuclear.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

DeShawn Stevenson, one of many great gems from the 2000 class, just as nbadraft.net predicted...

Kenyon Martin - Rasheed Wallace
Stromile Swift - Shawn Kemp
Darius Miles - Tracy McGrady
Marcus Fizer - Charles Barkley
Mike Miller - Lamar Odom
DerMarr Johnson - Scottie Pippen
Keyon Dooling - Steve Francis
Jerome Moiso - Kevin Garnett
Jason Collier - Vlade Divac
Desmond Mason - Michael Finley
Quentin Richardson - Paul Pierce
Donnell Harvey - Dennis Rodman
Erick Barkley - Nate "Tiny" Archibald
Mark Madsen - Charles Oakley

Whoever made the Fizer/Barkley comp should be banned from basketball for life.

Yet every couple drafts, here comes "the deepest draft in years " talk,

not like these people can come right out and say, well honestly all these guys suck.

Using NBAdraft.net comparisons to make a point?

[JohnnyKILLroy]

If we do this it has to be a nuclear rebuild right?

Yep. It would make no sense to trade Jimmy for Crowder, Smart, etc. -- a bunch of OK guys who can never be stars. Then your team wins enough games not to get great picks, and you are worse off, you have no star now. You'd have to do this for very young prospects who can't yet help you win and/or picks. Nuclear.

Not often mentioned but maybe something with the Nuggets?

Jokic and picks?