WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering: Update Bulls forfeit 2nd Round Pick pg. 31

[HomoSapien]

The Bulls and Pels could have completely and legally agreed to this deal weeks ago, and then immediately announced it at the deadline, without violating any rules.

As far as I know this is the illegal part, you cant legally agree on the deal before the start of the FA.

The Pelicans and Bulls could have agreed to a framework, but the illegal part would be if the Bulls approached Ball's camp at all before free-agency officially began.

The one grey area here I think is if the Bulls talked to Ball's agent during the trade deadline and let them know they were going to offer a 4 year $85m extension. If Ball's camp was good with that number then, they could argue that they were still good with it. It just seems like it's hard to explain how everything was ironed out a few minutes into the opening of the free-agency palooza.

[Darius Miles Davis]

I posted this earlier and didn’t get any commentary, but I am very perplexed by this quote from today’s Woj article. So I’m going to try you all again:

New Orleans agreed to trade Ball, a restricted free agent, to Chicago on a four-year, $85 million contract for Garrett Temple on a new three-year, $15.5 million contract and guard Tomas Satoransky. That deal has yet to be finalized with the league office and could look different in its final form, sources said.

Seriously, what the hell does that mean? The league is going to let the deal go through in general but will, I don’t know, force the Bulls to send back more to New Orleans? Or are they going to force the Bulls to change the contract they will allow Lonzo to sign? Woj always knows what he’s talking about.

[BullChit]

We were negotiating with them at the trade deadline for the exact same player so it's not like this was an unknown deal from starting from scratch

[Am2626]

To be honest, this was so clear and I was expecting this.

I was even surprised they announced the S&T so quick ....they should have been smarter, in particular after all those rumors about Ball to the Bulls came out.

My thoughts exactly. I mean, if you announce a signing a minute or two after free-agency opens it's pretty clear something happened behind the scenes. If you're going to cheat, be smarter about it.

Didn’t LeBron have Westbrook over to his house at least a week before the draft? Why doesn’t the NBA do anything about that?

[Darius Miles Davis]

I posted this earlier and didn’t get any commentary, but I am very perplexed by this quote from today’s Woj article. So I’m going to try you all again:

New Orleans agreed to trade Ball, a restricted free agent, to Chicago on a four-year, $85 million contract for Garrett Temple on a new three-year, $15.5 million contract and guard Tomas Satoransky. That deal has yet to be finalized with the league office and could look different in its final form, sources said.

Seriously, what the hell does that mean? The league is going to let the deal go through in general but will, I don’t know, force the Bulls to send back more to New Orleans? Or are they going to force the Bulls to change the contract they will allow Lonzo to sign? Woj always knows what he’s talking about.

Or is he just saying that the Bulls and Pelis are adjusting parameters to suit themselves? Maybe that’s all he means. I took it to mean something else in context of this article.


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[HomoSapien]

I posted this earlier and didn’t get any commentary, but I am very perplexed by this quote from today’s Woj article. So I’m going to try you all again:

New Orleans agreed to trade Ball, a restricted free agent, to Chicago on a four-year, $85 million contract for Garrett Temple on a new three-year, $15.5 million contract and guard Tomas Satoransky. That deal has yet to be finalized with the league office and could look different in its final form, sources said.

Seriously, what the hell does that mean? The league is going to let the deal go through in general but will, I don’t know, force the Bulls to send back more to New Orleans? Or are they going to force the Bulls to change the contract they will allow Lonzo to sign? Woj always knows what he’s talking about.

It's hard to say. For all we know it could be different because it could be expanded to be a deal with the Hornets and Devonte Graham. Lauri could theoretically still end up being part of it.

[Rowland Garrett]

One thing to note, an investigation doesn't mean guilt necessarily either.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the only thing the Bulls couldn't do was contact Ball directly. I'm sure the contacted him of course, but hopefully through the same back channels that everyone else uses to get around such rules.

I have a question about this. Couldn't the Pelicans say after initial talks between them and the Bulls they gave the Bulls permission to talk to Lonzo to see if the sign and trade would work?

[Hold That]

I feel like the only way you can determine tampering is by requesting phone logs of the phones used between teams and agents.. if there aren’t any long conversations logged on the records on the first day of FA and they all show the days prior we are screwed. Hopefully they were talking heavily and can prove activity of negotiations the day of to avoid tampering charges. Hopefully they were using burners the days leading up to FA date.

Let’s be honest we know the Bulls likely tampered. Like every team who signed a free agent on the first 48 hours of free agency. And we know this deal was likely agreed upon well before the first day of FA. But the conversation isn’t about what we know it’s about what the NBA can “prove”. This will be interesting

[Repeat 3-peat]

Whatever happens, I doubt anything will be voided.

The Lowry S&T to Miami talk was happening days before the legal tampering phase started. We all knew that Ball and the Bulls had interest in each other but there were no sign and trade rumors being reported. So If this trade did get voided, so should the Lowry deal and I'm here to say, I feel confident that won't be happening to Pat Riley and the Heat.

I'm not going to worry about this.

[HomoSapien]

One thing to note, an investigation doesn't mean guilt necessarily either.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the only thing the Bulls couldn't do was contact Ball directly. I'm sure the contacted him of course, but hopefully through the same back channels that everyone else uses to get around such rules.

I have a question about this. Couldn't the Pelicans say after initial talks between them and the Bulls they gave the Bulls permission to talk to Lonzo to see if the sign and trade would work?

I don't think it's dependent on the Pelican's discretion. It's just a blanket rule that outside teams can't talk to a player before they're allowed to.

To me it boils down to this:

1.) The Bulls obviously were tampering and they did a bad job of hiding it.

2.) It sucks that the NBA seems to pick and choose when they enforce tampering rules.

3.) That said, when you break the rules it's a childish reaction to be mad that you got caught and complain about how others have done it too.

Hopefully, the punishment is nothing more than a fine.

[SHO'NUFF]

We were negotiating with them at the trade deadline for the exact same player so it's not like this was an unknown deal from starting from scratch

Last season trade deadline scenario:

Bulls: "We'd like to trade you Garrett Temple & Sato plus a second round pick for Lonzo."

Pelicans: No sorry, but ask us during the off-season when Free agency begins and we'll probably do that trade. I'll set up all the paperwork now so we can get it done quick, unless we change our mind."

Bulls: "Ok, sounds good."

The end.



(I wrote that myself)

[HomoSapien]

I feel like the only way you can determine tampering is by requesting phone logs of the phones used between teams and agents.

We also don't know if guilt has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt here. It's not like this is the U.S. Court of Law. They might be able to just say there's obviously no way you could have reached terms with Lonzo Ball in the opening minutes of free agency without talking to him beforehand.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Could the league take away the 1st or 2nds going to the Spurs since that deal likely isn’t finalized yet? Yikes

[Darius Miles Davis]

Could the league take away the 1st or 2nds going to the Spurs since that deal likely isn’t finalized yet? Yikes

I think our 2022 1st rounder is gone.


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[Hold That]

I feel like the only way you can determine tampering is by requesting phone logs of the phones used between teams and agents.

We also don't know if guilt has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt here. It's not like this is the U.S. Court of Law. They might be able to just say there's obviously no way you could have reached terms with Lonzo Ball in the opening minutes of free agency without talking to him beforehand.

True but that would mean no investigation is needed, why not just punish them out the gate if they aren’t going to do any due process.

[BullChit]

I feel like the only way you can determine tampering is by requesting phone logs of the phones used between teams and agents.

We also don't know if guilt has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt here. It's not like this is the U.S. Court of Law. They might be able to just say there's obviously no way you could have reached terms with Lonzo Ball in the opening minutes of free agency without talking to him beforehand.

True but that would mean no investigation is needed, why not just punish them out the gate if they aren’t going to do any due process.

But then ESPN wouldn't have a story to drag out for days...

[FriedRise]

Meh, didn’t they try Sato + 2nd for Ball at the deadline already? All they did was add Temple in the package. The framework was already there, wouldn’t take all that long to come up with that.

[HomoSapien]

Meh, didn’t they try Sato + 2nd for Ball at the deadline already? All they did was add Temple in the package. The framework was already there, wouldn’t take all that long to come up with that.

That part's not the issue. It's that the Bulls weren't allowed to be in contact with Ball's camp until 6PM EST on August 2nd, yet they had a deal fully agreed to by 6:02.

[Ctownbulls]

Meh, didn’t they try Sato + 2nd for Ball at the deadline already? All they did was add Temple in the package. The framework was already there, wouldn’t take all that long to come up with that.

That part's not the issue. It's that the Bulls weren't allowed to be in contact with Ball's camp until 6PM EST on August 2nd, yet they had a deal fully agreed to by 6:02.

What about all the other deals announced in the first hour? It's kind of crazy to focus on these two deals unless they have information of blatant rule breaking.

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[HomoSapien]

Meh, didn’t they try Sato + 2nd for Ball at the deadline already? All they did was add Temple in the package. The framework was already there, wouldn’t take all that long to come up with that.

That part's not the issue. It's that the Bulls weren't allowed to be in contact with Ball's camp until 6PM EST on August 2nd, yet they had a deal fully agreed to by 6:02.

What about all the other deals announced in the first hour? It's kind of crazy to focus on these two deals unless they have information of blatant rule breaking.

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With Lowry and Ball, we kept hearing for days leading up to it that both were basically done deals and that Lonzo had every intention of signing with the Bulls during the opening minutes of free-agency. I don't recall hearing that with anyone else besides those two.

Again, almost everyone is tampering but if you're going to do it you should at least play it a little cooler than that.