O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson

[chitownsports4ever]

Ball
Lavine
Duncan Robinson
3/D wing or Caruso
Gobert

That's looking interesting to me.

thats screams lottery to me because you have 4 guys who cant create offense for themselves

[Red8911]

Gobert is actually better than Vuc offensively as well which is funny.

He really isn’t. Watch Gobert play he’s not even close on offense.Vuc is one of the best offensive centers in the league. Gobert and Vuc are just different types of centers.

He's much better on offense. Keeps it simple and finishes. That's better than what Vuc offered last year.

Maybe you don’t like Vuc and that’s fine but he’s better than Gobert offensively.Huge difference. It’s a fact whether you like him or not. Can Gobert shoot any 3s or open the floor ? Can Gobert shoot mid range shots ? Is he a reliable FT shooter ? Vuc even has the edge on post moves scoring down low.

Gobert is a much better defender, shot blocker, rim protector, rebounder especially offensive rebounds and is tougher. But here we are talking about who is the better player offensively and it’s Vuc by far. If the Bulls are making this trade it’s because they would rather have Goberts defensive strengths.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

He really isn’t. Watch Gobert play he’s not even close on offense.Vuc is one of the best offensive centers in the league. Gobert and Vuc are just different types of centers.

He's much better on offense. Keeps it simple and finishes. That's better than what Vuc offered last year.

Maybe you don’t like Vuc and that’s fine but he’s better than Gobert offensively.Huge difference. It’s a fact whether you like him or not. Can Gobert shoot any 3s or open the floor ? Can Gobert shoot mid range shots ? Is he a reliable FT shooter ? Vuc even has the edge on post moves scoring down low.

Gobert is a much better defender, shot blocker, rim protector, rebounder especially offensive rebounds and is tougher. But here we are talking about who is the better player offensively and it’s Vuc by far. If the Bulls are making this trade it’s because they would rather have Goberts defensive strengths.

If you do this and keep Williams it’s a testament to their belief in his offense.

[gobullschi]

The Bulls problem is that Vucevic, LaVine and DeRozan are all offensive talents, not defensive talents, so the Bulls are forced to rely on their PG, PF, and bench players to cover for their mistakes on defense and keep them fresh. IMO, this problem gets over-blown because when the Bulls were healthy, they were one of the top defensive teams. Once Lonzo, Williams, Caruso, Green, & DJJ (literally all their defenders) were injured – the Bulls defense fell apart.

Matching up against Milwaukee was unfortunate too, because another big weakness for the Bulls was their lack of depth at power forward. Heck – they were playing a bunch of guards at the PF spot out of desperation all season. How could they ever match up against the best PF in the game?

If the Bulls were going to swap Vucevic for Gobert, it would certainly help improve the Bulls defense, but it could cause a lot of spacing problems for DeRozan. I don’t think Gobert is the answer to the Bulls problems unless his price tag was more reasonable. AK checking in on the potential toxic situation was most likely him doing his due diligence. Everyone knows Mitchell hates Gobert and there is concern he will demand out.

If a package of Vucevic, Coby, TBJ, & 2023 1st (POR) was enough – sure. Only problem – it isn’t. At least not in the minds of Utah Jazz fans. The package they want makes more sense for AD, who makes much more sense for Chicago.

The hate Vucevic gets on this board is getting overblown. Vucevic’s ability to score from all three levels, rebound, and pass the ball make him extremely valuable. IMO, another year playing together will help Vucevic’s outside shooting rebound back to the 3 seasons prior (40%). At times, he was the only answer against MIL.

The Bulls problems aren’t that complex.
1. Stay healthy
2. Improve Chemistry
3. Player Development (young guys)
4. Add more size and defenders via FA, draft, or smaller trades.

At the Jazz’s asking price - Gobert is simply not an option for the Bulls.

[Ballerkingn23]

I'm good on Def centric centers in today's nba. We can't score we need offense not more Defense. Vuc isn't the answer either but nor is Gobert/Mit

Fair point, the premium on defense is diminished in the playoffs. All hands are on deck, and max effort defense is more common. OTOH, if you don’t have an answer on some level to the big men in the east like Giannis, it’s tough to advance. Gobert would help a lot. Is it determinative is the question. The roster would need to be revamped to be more complete on D overall.

That’s a team job stopping Giannis, and we need a 3-d type center. Bec we have a sg/sf with limited range in drozen. So I still suggest to aim for someone else who allows him to occupy the middle of the court. Yet that center can protect the paint when necessary. Who that player is I can’t say now, but I know it’s neither gobert or Mitchell.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

We could be elite defensively.

On offense severely dudes would have to step up. Ayo Coby and most Importantly PWill and maybe our draft pick if get someone rotation ready.

Caruso and Ball and Lavine have to be healthy also.

I think we could put a roster around Rudy that’s better than anything he had in Utah or at least a better fit.

I’m only for it if the price is right. Gobert doesn’t just make us better defensively he makes us Elite on that end.

[chicago paxsons]

He really isn’t. Watch Gobert play he’s not even close on offense.Vuc is one of the best offensive centers in the league. Gobert and Vuc are just different types of centers.

He's much better on offense. Keeps it simple and finishes. That's better than what Vuc offered last year.

Maybe you don’t like Vuc and that’s fine but he’s better than Gobert offensively.Huge difference. It’s a fact whether you like him or not. Can Gobert shoot any 3s or open the floor ? Can Gobert shoot mid range shots ? Is he a reliable FT shooter ? Vuc even has the edge on post moves scoring down low.

Gobert is a much better defender, shot blocker, rim protector, rebounder especially offensive rebounds and is tougher. But here we are talking about who is the better player offensively and it’s Vuc by far. If the Bulls are making this trade it’s because they would rather have Goberts defensive strengths.

I've been supportive of vuc all season, but i disagree after seeing his offense this season. Vuc has shown he can shoot 3s and mid range shots, but not make them reliably which makes him a chucker on offense, not a shot maker. He is more reliable at the free throw line, but never gets to the line because of his style of play. I understand financially being weary of trading for gobert, but gobert is elite on defense and stays in his lane on offense where he is incredibly efficient.

The only reasons i can see holding on to vuc over gobert is gobert's contract or hoping vuc has a complete turnaround on offense next season, which to me is even more of a gamble than trading for gobert.

[Charlesareed]

[quote="gobullschi"]The Bulls problem is that Vucevic, LaVine and DeRozan are all offensive talents, not defensive talents, so the Bulls are forced to rely on their PG, PF, and bench players to cover for their mistakes on defense and keep them fresh. IMO, this problem gets over-blown because when the Bulls were healthy, they were one of the top defensive teams. Once Lonzo, Williams, Caruso, Green, & DJJ (literally all their defenders) were injured – the Bulls defense fell apart.

Matching up against Milwaukee was unfortunate too, because another big weakness for the Bulls was their lack of depth at power forward. Heck – they were playing a bunch of guards at the PF spot out of desperation all season. How could they ever match up against the best PF in the game?

If the Bulls were going to swap Vucevic for Gobert, it would certainly help improve the Bulls defense, but it could cause a lot of spacing problems for DeRozan. I don’t think Gobert is the answer to the Bulls problems unless his price tag was more reasonable. AK checking in on the potential toxic situation was most likely him doing his due diligence. Everyone knows Mitchell hates Gobert and there is concern he will demand out.

If a package of Vucevic, Coby, TBJ, & 2023 1st (POR) was enough – sure. Only problem – it isn’t. At least not in the minds of Utah Jazz fans. The package they want makes more sense for AD, who makes much more sense for Chicago.

The hate Vucevic gets on this board is getting overblown. Vucevic’s ability to score from all three levels, rebound, and pass the ball make him extremely valuable. IMO, another year playing together will help Vucevic’s outside shooting rebound back to the 3 seasons prior (40%). At times, he was the only answer against MIL.

The Bulls problems aren’t that complex.
1. Stay healthy
2. Improve Chemistry
3. Player Development (young guys)
4. Add more size and defenders via FA, draft, or smaller trades.

At the Jazz’s asking price - Gobert is simply not an option for the Bulls.[/If a package of Vucevic, Coby, TBJ, & 2023 1st (POR) was enough – sure. Only problem – it isn’t. At least not in the minds of Utah Jazz

This is what he’s worth my trade looks similar to yours vooch coby djj & 1 frp that’s it’s that’s all if they ask for pw or ayo hang up immediately

[MrSparkle]

I think Gobert’s worth more than Bulls fans think, and less than Jazz fans think.

Gobert would cost some considerable package (ala Jrue). Vuc would have to be part of a 3-team deal. He makes no sense for Utah. Maybe Ben Simmons gets involved.

I don’t think anything happens. Ayton is a more reasonable avenue.

[TheSuzerain]

The idea that PW or Ayo are untouchable is preposterous.

[Clint Eastwood]

People on the trade board are expecting Vucevic + Patrick Williams + more.

Pass.

I agree on that. And Gobert's contract is horrid, he's basically a neutral value player-contract - desirable only for playoff teams looking.

That said, if the Bulls were serious about Gobert... I'd be concerned about the fit with DeRozan. If DDR needs to use the mid-range to be most effective, Gobert's non-range doesn't work. That's one of the issues that limited Vuc, to some degree.

So I think, if there was fire under this (tiny bit) of smoke, the trade might be: Vuc + DeRozan for Gobert + Bogdanovic. Maybe including Coby going out from the Bulls to make salary even (though it works on tradechecker without).

And that would be ... very interesting for both teams.

Bogs is a few months older than DeRozan, and much more a (very good) secondary offensive player than a team's primary scorer. He doesn't get to the line much, about half the rate of DDR. But Gobert is a year and a half younger than Vuc... so outside of potentially losing Coby, the Bulls don't get notably older or younger.

For the Jazz, if they wanted to reboot, the idea of a Conley-Mitchell-DDR trio would be really interesting, with Royce at the 4, and then Vuc, maybe Whiteside back to back them up. Rudy Gay has played with DDR so there's some established relations. And Clarkson is still a fairly killer 3rd guard. I could see them getting Ingles back, too.

For the Bulls, if Lonzo and Pat are healthy, you have Gobert and 4 guys who can shoot well from range, so that could work. Gobert would allow them to be a bit smaller at the 4 like Billy seems to like. Of course, still don't have established shooting off the bench (either Coby stepping up if kept, or otherwise), and Bogs is not any better defensively than DDR... so...

Basically, the teams would be flipping plans to see if the other team's approach from the prior year - and seeing of that approach works better for them, with their personnel. And, honestly, looking at personnel groupings - it might be better for both teams.

This is the trade i proposed a while back. Bogdonovich actually fits our offense better than demar anyway as we need quick release knockdown range shooting. Im on board.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

I go after Gobert if it’s effectively Vuc for Gobert. No other real asset. Jazz should be interested in that if I’m being honest. They’ve tried and failed with that team, and this is a good shot at a restart while also acquiring a former Allstar — who also played well in the playoffs.

No Pwill, or pick. Just salary

[Clint Eastwood]

If we bring in Gobert, I seriously think we need to look at moving DDR for another shooting wing (assuming Zach stays). They are an awful offensive pairing that might survive in the regular season but would be the stuff of nightmares in the playoffs.

It would be a different story if I was confident that Lonzo & Zach could remain healthy and hit 40% on 3’s at 8+ attempts a game but I’m not. The team needs more shooting, not less.

This is the ideal 3 team deal in my opinion. Bulls get the shooter to replace derozan. Derozan is sent somewhere he is happy to go. Jazz get AD and Horton tucker. Bulls lineup is balanced and Bogdonovich is a better fit with lavine and gobert.

Gobert
Williams
Bogdonovich
Lavine
Ball
——-
Caruso
White
Liddell
Ayo
Green
Simonovich or low cost backup bigman

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c4vgbso

[rosenthall]

Of these guys, only Gasol has a body built like Gobert. The massive size / weight is what puts so much stress on your joints, and Gasol wasn't playing with as much force as Gobert does.

Gobert is listed as 7 Ft 1 and 245 lbs. Mutombo is listed at 7'2 and 260 lbs. Chandler as 7'0 and 240 lbs. Marc Gasol at 6'11 and 255 lbs. To be honest, I'm not sure why Gobert's body is more like Gasol and than Mutombo or Chandler. In any event, I agree that if he has cartilage damage in his joints or something that's degenerative in his lower body then we should avoid trading for him.

But I'm not in a position to parse the differences in Gobert's biomechanics compared to other people's. I think the trend holds though, if you can play your game without leaving your feet it bodes well for your longevity.

Beyond that, of these guys, how many would you want on a max deal past 30? Maybe Gasol, but almost certainly not any of the others despite that they were giving you defensive anchor performances, and in their day, the defensive center was much more valuable.

Mutombo was 2nd team All-NBA, All-Star, and DPOY for a 56 win Phillies team that made it to the Finals at the age of 34. And the Sixers made a big trade to acquire him mid-season to put themselves over.

Duncan was All-NBA and All-Defense from the ages 30-33.

Gasol was very good for the Grizzlies in his thirties.

Save Duncan, I wouldn't choose to build a team around any of these guys as my first choice, but if I were already over the cap and acquiring them on a max contract significantly improved the team........it seems like a doable idea.

And the relevant comparison isn't Gobert with Camby, Mutombo, or Chandler. It's about projecting Gobert at the age of 33 based off of what Gobert is now.

There's decent reason to believe he'll be pretty close to his current self throughout his current contract, so if you think Gobert today is reasonably paid, you shouldn't think Gobert in four years should bear some resemblance to the player he is today.

Again, I don't want to overstate the case. I know he'll decline on his current contract. The last year looks particularly risky. But the Tim Duncan defensive decline is very different from the Ben Wallace defensive decline.

[kulaz3000]

If we bring in Gobert, I seriously think we need to look at moving DDR for another shooting wing (assuming Zach stays). They are an awful offensive pairing that might survive in the regular season but would be the stuff of nightmares in the playoffs.

It would be a different story if I was confident that Lonzo & Zach could remain healthy and hit 40% on 3’s at 8+ attempts a game but I’m not. The team needs more shooting, not less.

This is the ideal 3 team deal in my opinion. Bulls get the shooter to replace derozan. Derozan is sent somewhere he is happy to go. Jazz get AD and Horton tucker. Bulls lineup is balanced and Bogdonovich is a better fit with lavine and gobert.

Gobert
Williams
Bogdonovich
Lavine
Ball
——-
Caruso
White
Liddell
Ayo
Green
Simonovich or low cost backup bigman

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c4vgbso

There is no way that the Bulls trade DeRozan unless it's part of a bigger package which gets us a star. He has provided too much good will for the franchise, not only on the court, but off it, where he has said nothing but positive things about the team, the players and the front office - you don't just undo that, especially for a player on the level of Gobert, who is pretty disliked around the league.

[IWannaGoHIGHER]

I think if it's Vuc + filler (DJJ, 18th pick, Coby), then I think you have to take it. But that seems extremely unlikely. I'm not willing to give up on Pat yet, only 20 still. I've seen enough flashes/work ethic that I'm still holding on to his stock. Gobert is a good player, but that contract is a very bitter pill too swallow. Especially considering the Bulls are going to give Zach the full max.

Currently seems like Bulls fandom is underrating Gobert though, and his synergy with this team. While Gobert's offense skill set is very limited, he still is a efficient giving you around 15ppg right near the basket. There is great value in that. Plus those are more shots away from Vuc, that you're giving to Lonzo, Zach, DeMar, and Pat. I think he's elite enough at defense/rebounding to still be a clear net positive. He would be game changing on defense for the Bulls, and is able to switch out on the perimeter vs guards (though it's fair to counter if he keeps that foot speed into his 30's). Him, Lonzo, and Caruso I think could be the best defensive threesome in the NBA.

But all that being said, Gobert contract is just that bad to me. Though as some have pointed out, if the Bulls are willing to be in the tax long term, it's a bit easier to manage. I think one of the great things this regime has done, is putting together the best team possible, but still holding on to your long term flexibility. Vuc is on the last year of a cap friendly (yes, even with him having a rough year), and DeMar for only two more. If you taken on Gobert, you're pretty much locked into this team, at least for the next two years.

Think the pipe dream is still Ayton if you're going to go all in on a different center. Glad to see Mark & AK are working the phones, and seeing what's out there. Think between this, and the deadline Grant rumors, like how they're continually looking to improve.

Just don't think it happens with Gobert for the right price, unless the Jazz really want him gone.

[Clint Eastwood]

If we bring in Gobert, I seriously think we need to look at moving DDR for another shooting wing (assuming Zach stays). They are an awful offensive pairing that might survive in the regular season but would be the stuff of nightmares in the playoffs.

It would be a different story if I was confident that Lonzo & Zach could remain healthy and hit 40% on 3’s at 8+ attempts a game but I’m not. The team needs more shooting, not less.

This is the ideal 3 team deal in my opinion. Bulls get the shooter to replace derozan. Derozan is sent somewhere he is happy to go. Jazz get AD and Horton tucker. Bulls lineup is balanced and Bogdonovich is a better fit with lavine and gobert.

Gobert
Williams
Bogdonovich
Lavine
Ball
——-
Caruso
White
Liddell
Ayo
Green
Simonovich or low cost backup bigman

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c4vgbso

There is no way that the Bulls trade DeRozan unless it's part of a bigger package which gets us a star. He has provided too much good will for the franchise, not only on the court, but off it, where he has said nothing but positive things about the team, the players and the front office - you don't just undo that, especially for a player on the level of Gobert, who is pretty disliked around the league.

In my scenario our team gets better and thats the main goal. Better chance at winning. And you are sending Derozan to the team he originally wanted to sign with, saving his good will. I like derozan, but we are going no where with his isolation play and bad defense. And he isnt getting any younger, or cheaper…

[kulaz3000]

This is the ideal 3 team deal in my opinion. Bulls get the shooter to replace derozan. Derozan is sent somewhere he is happy to go. Jazz get AD and Horton tucker. Bulls lineup is balanced and Bogdonovich is a better fit with lavine and gobert.

Gobert
Williams
Bogdonovich
Lavine
Ball
——-
Caruso
White
Liddell
Ayo
Green
Simonovich or low cost backup bigman

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c4vgbso

There is no way that the Bulls trade DeRozan unless it's part of a bigger package which gets us a star. He has provided too much good will for the franchise, not only on the court, but off it, where he has said nothing but positive things about the team, the players and the front office - you don't just undo that, especially for a player on the level of Gobert, who is pretty disliked around the league.

In my scenario our team gets better and thats the main goal. Better chance at winning. And you are sending Derozan to the team he originally wanted to sign with, saving his good will. I like derozan, but we are going no where with his isolation play and bad defense. And he isnt getting any younger, or cheaper…

No, your view on trading him to better the team is no different to mine, the only difference is, if you're willing to break the good-will of the DeRozan signing, it better be for a player much better than Gobert and what he brings. You're essentially trading away one one-dimensional player, for another one-dimensional player, I really see no massive upgrade there. Sure, you get better with interior defense, but now you're removing another shot creator from the team, leaving the team with basically one left in Zach, again.

[kulaz3000]

I think if it's Vuc + filler (DJJ, 18th pick, Coby), then I think you have to take it. But that seems extremely unlikely. I'm not willing to give up on Pat yet, only 20 still. I've seen enough flashes/work ethic that I'm still holding on to his stock. Gobert is a good player, but that contract is a very bitter pill too swallow. Especially considering the Bulls are going to give Zach the full max.

I agree on Pat. Though he could very well be a bust, we still have next year to truly gauge where his career trajectory will be, before we should really consider trading him and by that point, even if he doesn't make a giant leap, and the front office thinks he won't ever become a star, I think he will still have decent value to trade away.

[waffle]

we were good defensively FOR A BIT because we were able to pressure the ball. Bringing up and around the arc...it made everyone on the back line look decent at worst.

Injuries

All of a sudden..our D sucks

Pressure around the arc is not to be underestimated.