Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[DropStep]

5 years is a long commitment, but he seems like a great bet to lock up through much of his prime at just 33% more than Pat is making. I'm hoping it's not player options toward the end.

[nomorezorro]

He’s only 22, why wouldn’t he improve again?

sometimes when a young guy has a year that's significantly better than his previous career averages, it's not because he's unlocked some new baseline level of skill that he will continue to build on going forward. instead, it happens because his performance was inflated by an unsustainable hot streak and his numbers/impact will never reach that height again.

this can be true even if the player improves as he ages — sometimes, the improvements aren't significant enough to recapture the lightning-in-a-bottle performance that the "less skilled" version was able to rattle off for a few months, or even for a full year. see also: luol deng 2006-07 season

[nomorezorro]

not saying that will happen to josh giddey! but, yknow, there's maybe more reason to be concerned than usual for a guy his age

[kodo]

Some players in this range & above.

Devin Vassel: $29.3M
Tyler Herro: $29M
Miles Bridges: $27.9M
Anfernee Simons: $25.9M
RJ Barret: $25.8M
Tobias Harris: $25.4M
Terry Rozier: $24.9M
Kyle Kuzma: $24.5M

[Ice Man]

Some players in this range & above.

Devin Vassel: $29.3M
Tyler Herro: $29M
Miles Bridges: $27.9M
Anfernee Simons: $25.9M
RJ Barret: $25.8M
Tobias Harris: $25.4M
Terry Rozier: $24.9M
Kyle Kuzma: $24.5M

Giddey is younger than any of those players, and had a higher VORP last season than any except for Herro.

[HomoSapien]

Read on Twitter

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[kulaz3000]

Read on Twitter

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Meh. We still won this trade (if we resign him).

[nomorezorro]

i kind of think the team that's going to win the nba championship because of the trade won this trade

[nomorezorro]

that video from the score isn't tramel reporting anything btw. it's just him saying "people think the bulls could have gotten a first out of presti for obvious and legitimate reasons. is that true? i dunno"

[Wingy]

I’m probably being overly dickish toward Giddey of late, but OKC looks like it badly needs an additional ball-handler out there. They don’t want SGA to constantly handle vs Indy’s pressure, and that just can’t be a good use of Jalen Williams‘s energy either.

Despite having this skill the team lacks, being younger, a known qty in the building, and not due for a big payday in the context of his OKC usage, they were still fine moving him.

Yes, Caruso is super valuable, but if Presti really believed in Giddey I’m pretty confident he would’ve figured out what he needed to do to keep him. He could’ve made the AC acquisition still with picks, fillers, and getting a 3rd team involved (since Captain Win Now was the trading partner).

Either Presti made a mistake evaluating his team, or he just doesn’t see Giddey as a good enough playoff player. I think it’s the latter, and the eventual benching and subsequent trade seem to align.

I should just let this one go and let time tell, but I’m left head scratching why people see the guy as a key piece to any serious success in the future. If it’s a ‘walk before you can run’ kind of mentality, I can def see Giddey progressing the team in that regard. But once we’re talking serious playoff runs? Just seems like an inefficient use of resources that help get you stuck given the salary he now commands after that one little late season run, and his limitations on both sides of the ball.

[Dan Z]

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Based on his history AK doesn't seem to value picks very much, so my guess is that he didn't push to get a pick. If he did...who knows? Presti might say no, but maybe the Bulls get a late first thrown in?

Having said that, I wonder what Giddey's value would be right now had he stayed on OKC...? I bring that up because the Bulls have expiring contracts plus assets like the Portland pick that could be used in a sign and trade (the expiring contract thread made me think of this).

[Dan Z]

I’m probably being overly dickish toward Giddey of late, but OKC looks like it badly needs an additional ball-handler out there. They don’t want SGA to constantly handle vs Indy’s pressure, and that just can’t be a good use of Jalen Williams‘s energy either.

Despite having this skill the team lacks, being younger, a known qty in the building, and not due for a big payday in the context of his OKC usage, they were still fine moving him.

Yes, Caruso is super valuable, but if Presti really believed in Giddey I’m pretty confident he would’ve figured out what he needed to do to keep him. He could’ve made the AC acquisition still with picks, fillers, and getting a 3rd team involved (since Captain Win Now was the trading partner).

Either Presti made a mistake evaluating his team, or he just doesn’t see Giddey as a good enough playoff player. I think it’s the latter, and the eventual benching and subsequent trade seem to align.

I should just let this one go and let time tell, but I’m left head scratching why people see the guy as a key piece to any serious success in the future. If it’s a ‘walk before you can run’ kind of mentality, I can def see Giddey progressing the team in that regard. But once we’re talking serious playoff runs? Just seems like an inefficient use of resources that help get you stuck given the salary he now commands after that one little late season run, and his limitations on both sides of the ball.

It's difficult to let go because it's a big part of the Bulls future. What they pay Giddey, and how they build the team with him going forward, will effect the team for years.

I agree with your point...was it smart for the Bulls to build their future around a player that a championship level team didn't think was worth keeping? Probably not, but only time will tell.

[sco]

I’m probably being overly dickish toward Giddey of late, but OKC looks like it badly needs an additional ball-handler out there. They don’t want SGA to constantly handle vs Indy’s pressure, and that just can’t be a good use of Jalen Williams‘s energy either.

Despite having this skill the team lacks, being younger, a known qty in the building, and not due for a big payday in the context of his OKC usage, they were still fine moving him.

Yes, Caruso is super valuable, but if Presti really believed in Giddey I’m pretty confident he would’ve figured out what he needed to do to keep him. He could’ve made the AC acquisition still with picks, fillers, and getting a 3rd team involved (since Captain Win Now was the trading partner).

Either Presti made a mistake evaluating his team, or he just doesn’t see Giddey as a good enough playoff player. I think it’s the latter, and the eventual benching and subsequent trade seem to align.

I should just let this one go and let time tell, but I’m left head scratching why people see the guy as a key piece to any serious success in the future. If it’s a ‘walk before you can run’ kind of mentality, I can def see Giddey progressing the team in that regard. But once we’re talking serious playoff runs? Just seems like an inefficient use of resources that help get you stuck given the salary he now commands after that one little late season run, and his limitations on both sides of the ball.

It's difficult to let go because it's a big part of the Bulls future. What they pay Giddey, and how they build the team with him going forward, will effect the team for years.

I agree with your point...was it smart for the Bulls to build their future around a player that a championship level team didn't think was worth keeping? Probably not, but only time will tell.

Given that the latest Giddey pay rumors are sub$30M, it's not like he's their centerpiece for the future, it just seems that way because that future centerpiece isn't on the roster. He's not MJ, but he was arguably their best player last season and he's just 22. Not the biggest deal.

[DuckIII]

i kind of think the team that's going to win the nba championship because of the trade won this trade

If there were such a team they would be. As it stands, it appears the trade was a smashing success for both teams. Caruso (along with the addition of Hartenstein and internal improvements from a super young team) gave them things they needed to balance out their roster and give them veteran championship leadership.

Giddey had by a mile the best year of his career, showed meaningful improvement on weaknesses, and effectively became the primary ball handler and playmaker the Bulls lacked.

It was a win for both organizations and for Giddey and Caruso as well.

[DuckIII]

I’m probably being overly dickish toward Giddey of late, but OKC looks like it badly needs an additional ball-handler out there. They don’t want SGA to constantly handle vs Indy’s pressure, and that just can’t be a good use of Jalen Williams‘s energy either.

Despite having this skill the team lacks, being younger, a known qty in the building, and not due for a big payday in the context of his OKC usage, they were still fine moving him.

Yes, Caruso is super valuable, but if Presti really believed in Giddey I’m pretty confident he would’ve figured out what he needed to do to keep him. He could’ve made the AC acquisition still with picks, fillers, and getting a 3rd team involved (since Captain Win Now was the trading partner).

Either Presti made a mistake evaluating his team, or he just doesn’t see Giddey as a good enough playoff player. I think it’s the latter, and the eventual benching and subsequent trade seem to align.

I should just let this one go and let time tell, but I’m left head scratching why people see the guy as a key piece to any serious success in the future. If it’s a ‘walk before you can run’ kind of mentality, I can def see Giddey progressing the team in that regard. But once we’re talking serious playoff runs? Just seems like an inefficient use of resources that help get you stuck given the salary he now commands after that one little late season run, and his limitations on both sides of the ball.

It's difficult to let go because it's a big part of the Bulls future. What they pay Giddey, and how they build the team with him going forward, will effect the team for years.

I agree with your point...was it smart for the Bulls to build their future around a player that a championship level team didn't think was worth keeping? Probably not, but only time will tell.

Given that the latest Giddey pay rumors are sub$30M, it's not like he's their centerpiece for the future, it just seems that way because that future centerpiece isn't on the roster. He's not MJ, but he was arguably their best player last season and he's just 22. Not the biggest deal.

Not to mention that the idea that Presti “didn’t want him” is not true. Presti asked Giddey if he would be okay with moving to a bench role or would prefer to be traded, and Giddey asked for the trade. It has been widely reported by both of them.

More importantly, it ignores the Thunder’s future financial condition and obligations. They are currently paying Williams and Chet a COMBINED $20 million per year. In the next two years the Thunder will have to extend:

Williams
Chet
Harty
Dortz
SGA

All of them. While paying AC $20 mil per. The Thunder are going to have to make hard choices and sacrifices. Giddey was one of them. The idea that they realized he couldn’t be a “champion” is hogwash.

They internally replaced him with the MVP and a top 5 player in the human race, had other needs, and knew they couldn’t pay everyone coming due. And he was the first one coming due.

It’s a confluence of events. It’s not a judgment of Josh Giddey any more meaningful than “he’s not as good as SGA.”

[Dan Z]

I’m probably being overly dickish toward Giddey of late, but OKC looks like it badly needs an additional ball-handler out there. They don’t want SGA to constantly handle vs Indy’s pressure, and that just can’t be a good use of Jalen Williams‘s energy either.

Despite having this skill the team lacks, being younger, a known qty in the building, and not due for a big payday in the context of his OKC usage, they were still fine moving him.

Yes, Caruso is super valuable, but if Presti really believed in Giddey I’m pretty confident he would’ve figured out what he needed to do to keep him. He could’ve made the AC acquisition still with picks, fillers, and getting a 3rd team involved (since Captain Win Now was the trading partner).

Either Presti made a mistake evaluating his team, or he just doesn’t see Giddey as a good enough playoff player. I think it’s the latter, and the eventual benching and subsequent trade seem to align.

I should just let this one go and let time tell, but I’m left head scratching why people see the guy as a key piece to any serious success in the future. If it’s a ‘walk before you can run’ kind of mentality, I can def see Giddey progressing the team in that regard. But once we’re talking serious playoff runs? Just seems like an inefficient use of resources that help get you stuck given the salary he now commands after that one little late season run, and his limitations on both sides of the ball.

It's difficult to let go because it's a big part of the Bulls future. What they pay Giddey, and how they build the team with him going forward, will effect the team for years.

I agree with your point...was it smart for the Bulls to build their future around a player that a championship level team didn't think was worth keeping? Probably not, but only time will tell.

Given that the latest Giddey pay rumors are sub$30M, it's not like he's their centerpiece for the future, it just seems that way because that future centerpiece isn't on the roster. He's not MJ, but he was arguably their best player last season and he's just 22. Not the biggest deal.

He plays a specific way that they'll probably build around, at least for now.

I agree with you that the Bulls still need to find a franchise player, but how will they do that? Is AK going to aim for the fences with the #12? He can, but chances are that doesn't find said player. A trade? Who?

As for Giddey's new contract I'd be surprised if it's under 30 million a year. Earlier in this thread Kodo posted a list of players and their contracts in relation to what Giddey might get.

Here's the list. If those players are currently making 25-29 million a year then why won't Giddey get 30+ a year?

Some players in this range & above.

Devin Vassel: $29.3M
Tyler Herro: $29M
Miles Bridges: $27.9M
Anfernee Simons: $25.9M
RJ Barret: $25.8M
Tobias Harris: $25.4M
Terry Rozier: $24.9M
Kyle Kuzma: $24.5M

[Dan Z]

It's difficult to let go because it's a big part of the Bulls future. What they pay Giddey, and how they build the team with him going forward, will effect the team for years.

I agree with your point...was it smart for the Bulls to build their future around a player that a championship level team didn't think was worth keeping? Probably not, but only time will tell.

Given that the latest Giddey pay rumors are sub$30M, it's not like he's their centerpiece for the future, it just seems that way because that future centerpiece isn't on the roster. He's not MJ, but he was arguably their best player last season and he's just 22. Not the biggest deal.

Not to mention that the idea that Presti “didn’t want him” is not true. Presti asked Giddey if he would be okay with moving to a bench role or would prefer to be traded, and Giddey asked for the trade. It has been widely reported by both of them.

More importantly, it ignores the Thunder’s future financial condition and obligations. They are currently paying Williams and Chet a COMBINED $20 million per year. In the next two years the Thunder will have to extend:

Williams
Chet
Harty
Dortz
SGA

All of them. While paying AC $20 mil per. The Thunder are going to have to make hard choices and sacrifices. Giddey was one of them. The idea that they realized he couldn’t be a “champion” is hogwash.

They internally replaced him with the MVP and a top 5 player in the human race, had other needs, and knew they couldn’t pay everyone coming due. And he was the first one coming due.

It’s a confluence of events. It’s not a judgment of Josh Giddey any more meaningful than “he’s not as good as SGA.”

All the more reason why the Bulls should've asked for more. OKC had fit and financial concerns to think about and the Bulls did not.

[DuckIII]

Given that the latest Giddey pay rumors are sub$30M, it's not like he's their centerpiece for the future, it just seems that way because that future centerpiece isn't on the roster. He's not MJ, but he was arguably their best player last season and he's just 22. Not the biggest deal.

Not to mention that the idea that Presti “didn’t want him” is not true. Presti asked Giddey if he would be okay with moving to a bench role or would prefer to be traded, and Giddey asked for the trade. It has been widely reported by both of them.

More importantly, it ignores the Thunder’s future financial condition and obligations. They are currently paying Williams and Chet a COMBINED $20 million per year. In the next two years the Thunder will have to extend:

Williams
Chet
Harty
Dortz
SGA

All of them. While paying AC $20 mil per. The Thunder are going to have to make hard choices and sacrifices. Giddey was one of them. The idea that they realized he couldn’t be a “champion” is hogwash.

They internally replaced him with the MVP and a top 5 player in the human race, had other needs, and knew they couldn’t pay everyone coming due. And he was the first one coming due.

It’s a confluence of events. It’s not a judgment of Josh Giddey any more meaningful than “he’s not as good as SGA.”

All the more reason why the Bulls should've asked for more. OKC had fit and financial concerns to think about and the Bulls did not.

That’s not relevant to what I was responding to. I hate AK as much or more than any Bulls fan alive. I think he’s one of the worst things to ever happen to any team I root for. Really.

But the Bulls got great value in the AC trade. Really excellent value. I’m not going to crap on it with rank speculation that it could have been even better. None of us have even a tiny shred of a clue otherwise. It’s just being said because reasons.

[Dan Z]

Not to mention that the idea that Presti “didn’t want him” is not true. Presti asked Giddey if he would be okay with moving to a bench role or would prefer to be traded, and Giddey asked for the trade. It has been widely reported by both of them.

More importantly, it ignores the Thunder’s future financial condition and obligations. They are currently paying Williams and Chet a COMBINED $20 million per year. In the next two years the Thunder will have to extend:

Williams
Chet
Harty
Dortz
SGA

All of them. While paying AC $20 mil per. The Thunder are going to have to make hard choices and sacrifices. Giddey was one of them. The idea that they realized he couldn’t be a “champion” is hogwash.

They internally replaced him with the MVP and a top 5 player in the human race, had other needs, and knew they couldn’t pay everyone coming due. And he was the first one coming due.

It’s a confluence of events. It’s not a judgment of Josh Giddey any more meaningful than “he’s not as good as SGA.”

All the more reason why the Bulls should've asked for more. OKC had fit and financial concerns to think about and the Bulls did not.

That’s not relevant to what I was responding to. I hate AK as much or more than any Bulls fan alive. I think he’s one of the worst things to ever happen to any team I root for. Really.

But the Bulls got great value in the AC trade. Really excellent value. I’m not going to crap on it with rank speculation that it could have been even better. None of us have even a tiny shred of a clue otherwise. It’s just being said because reasons.

I agree with you that it's speculation and that AC only had a certain amount of value (being that he's a role player).

My issue has always been that AK should've gotten picks (instead of Giddey) and kept searching for the teams franchise player. Giddey is a good player, but will cost more on his next contract and keep the team competitive just enough not to get a top pick in the near future (unless they have lottery luck).

[WindyCityBorn]

not saying that will happen to josh giddey! but, yknow, there's maybe more reason to be concerned than usual for a guy his age

No there isn’t.