Cowley: Bulls Zoned in on Demin at 12

[sco]

Emins rise is great for us. Getting Queen at 12 would be a huge surprise and win. If the combine allows a player like that to fall we are in a great place.

Rooting for both to go before us. Queen is a guy who shows the value of the combine to NBA teams. The vast majority of good college players' games don't translate to the NBA because of size/athleticism, Queen, IMO, is one of them.

[Guru]

Emins rise is great for us. Getting Queen at 12 would be a huge surprise and win. If the combine allows a player like that to fall we are in a great place.

Rooting for both to go before us. Queen is a guy who shows the value of the combine to NBA teams. The vast majority of good college players' games don't translate to the NBA because of size/athleticism, Queen, IMO, is one of them.

2 of the best players in the league aren't great athletes. Things like the combine are a decent metric but should also be ignored if other data outweighs it.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Emins rise is great for us. Getting Queen at 12 would be a huge surprise and win. If the combine allows a player like that to fall we are in a great place.

Rooting for both to go before us. Queen is a guy who shows the value of the combine to NBA teams. The vast majority of good college players' games don't translate to the NBA because of size/athleticism, Queen, IMO, is one of them.

2 of the best players in the league aren't great athletes. Things like the combine are a decent metric but should also be ignored if other data outweighs it.

There’s no chance Queen is the pick. He doesn’t fit our playstyle at all. We’d have to totally revamp our roster and system.

[MrSparkle]

I’ve seen the Queen picture too many times. Everyone is convinced the guy will suck in the pros. Scoring machine in college, high skill/IQ, questionable motor and conditioning. He drops in draft. Motivation to fix flaws kicks in. Ends up a steal.

His high post/midrange fadeaway is 2nd best in the draft. His college percentage around the rim was elite; better than Flagg’s. He can face-up guards on mismatches, and he has good vision. His wingspan is fine (7’1). Especially for Billy.

I’m not saying I definitively want him, but writing him off to draft some draft combine measurement darling would be a classic mistake. Don’t get me wrong, look at the alarming numbers (wingspan, speed), but since did McDermott’s sprint and hops give him any advantage over Korver or ole man broken back MDJ?

At 12, you need to get the best talent that drops. It’s almost an easy spot to draft, because the choice really shouldn’t be that hard. If they get cute with another Dalen Terry or Patrick type pick and skip the no brainer, AKME will get tomatoed.

If Queen loses baby fat weight and adds muscle, that’s already an immediately contributing top-7 rotation player.

[Guru]

Rooting for both to go before us. Queen is a guy who shows the value of the combine to NBA teams. The vast majority of good college players' games don't translate to the NBA because of size/athleticism, Queen, IMO, is one of them.

2 of the best players in the league aren't great athletes. Things like the combine are a decent metric but should also be ignored if other data outweighs it.

There’s no chance Queen is the pick. He doesn’t fit our playstyle at all. We’d have to totally revamp our roster and system.

Thats just not true, 4 players can run and one could be dynamic in the half court. Thats fine. He's also a great rebounder and facilitator so in a sense he fits our offense very well

[JohnnyKILLroy]

After all the fat non athletic players we’ve had over the years you’d think we’d have learned our lesson. Say no to Queen


He’s not even in shape for the biggest job interview / pay day of his life.

[Michael Jackson]

I'm a talent over need guy, but it's hard to imagine a player we need less than Demin.

Agree. Don’t care. I don’t think I’ve entered a Bulls draft less interested in need since the Elton Brand draft in which we needed everything.

True but man I wanted Odom so bad. I really didn't want Brand TBH and granted he was the better (more stable) player. Odom @ RI I really thought he would be a lot closer to Magic mixed with KG. He was at moments here and there but Crack is a hell of a drug. So are Kardashians. Even before that so much tragedy and distraction. Not a stable franchise guy obviously.

This year I am with you pretty much BPA the rest is gravy. Really annyone is tradable and you have a minute to figure it out too as we are not a good team next year.

[Michael Jackson]

After all the fat athletic players we’ve had over the years you’d think we’d have learned our lesson. Say no to Queen


He’s not even in shape for the biggest job interview / pay day of his life.

Really strange I was at Fogo De Chao with Felicio and he was laughing over that. We were meeting up with El Amin and Sweetney at Jenni's Ice Cream after. Eddy Curry had to cancel though on account of bankruptcy.

[Chi town]

I’ve seen the Queen picture too many times. Everyone is convinced the guy will suck in the pros. Scoring machine in college, high skill/IQ, questionable motor and conditioning. He drops in draft. Motivation to fix flaws kicks in. Ends up a steal.

His high post/midrange fadeaway is 2nd best in the draft. His college percentage around the rim was elite; better than Flagg’s. He can face-up guards on mismatches, and he has good vision. His wingspan is fine (7’1). Especially for Billy.

I’m not saying I definitively want him, but writing him off to draft some draft combine measurement darling would be a classic mistake. Don’t get me wrong, look at the alarming numbers (wingspan, speed), but since did McDermott’s sprint and hops give him any advantage over Korver or ole man broken back MDJ?

At 12, you need to get the best talent that drops. It’s almost an easy spot to draft, because the choice really shouldn’t be that hard. If they get cute with another Dalen Terry or Patrick type pick and skip the no brainer, AKME will get tomatoed.

If Queen loses baby fat weight and adds muscle, that’s already an immediately contributing top-7 rotation player.

The risk isn’t the athenticism. It’s inbetween his ears. Dude isn’t ready for workouts or the combine. Reports saying he’s not taking it seriously. Opportunity of his life and he’s fumbling.

Pass.

[bledredwine]

Nah. We'll draft an undersized SG who bricks a lot.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

After all the fat athletic players we’ve had over the years you’d think we’d have learned our lesson. Say no to Queen


He’s not even in shape for the biggest job interview / pay day of his life.

Really strange I was at Fogo De Chao with Felicio and he was laughing over that. We were meeting up with El Amin and Sweetney at Jenni's Ice Cream after. Eddy Curry had to cancel though on account of bankruptcy.

Sweetney AKA Oprah lol

[TheJordanRule]

After all the fat non athletic players we’ve had over the years you’d think we’d have learned our lesson. Say no to Queen


He’s not even in shape for the biggest job interview / pay day of his life.

And this modern NBA will coddle those tendencies. Fat guys are gonna get a ton of free injury designations and then only play about half the season, anyway. And that's the upside, which he would probably reach if you ignore the lack of work ethic and self respect.

[Peelboy]

Dollar to donuts, AK will look for some uber-athletic guy who may or may not have basketball skills (Dalen), any sense of a dawg in him (Pat), or maybe both! Why look for a skilled competitor who might not be the most athletic but can actually.....play basketball (like Halliburton) when you can get the guy who looks great on a poster but is most likely to end up the guy getting posterized!

Personally, in context of his overall portfolio, I suspect Matas was a case of AK getting lucky. Ayo was another one (having watched him in college, I know he's self-driven, not really developed by AK and his org in any way).

[sco]

Dollar to donuts, AK will look for some uber-athletic guy who may or may not have basketball skills (Dalen), any sense of a dawg in him (Pat), or maybe both! Why look for a skilled competitor who might not be the most athletic but can actually.....play basketball (like Halliburton) when you can get the guy who looks great on a poster but is most likely to end up the guy getting posterized!

Personally, in context of his overall portfolio, I suspect Matas was a case of AK getting lucky. Ayo was another one (having watched him in college, I know he's self-driven, not really developed by AK and his org in any way).

I think AK has made a bunch of dumb moves, but I don't hate him for the PWill or Terry drafts. Neither guy panned out, but I could see the PWill potential as a rookie (but he got worse after that) and after Eason was drafted one spot before us, there wasn't much to choose from...he was looking for another Ball (and didn't get that).

[NecessaryEvil]

Outside of the big 4

Demin was my first choice when I started to dig into the prospects games

I’m with it

[Indomitable]

Outside of the big 4

Demin was my first choice when I started to dig into the prospects games

I’m with it

Why

[nomorezorro]

i don't mean to belabor this point, i'm sorry if i've missed this in the discussion, and i want to emphasize this is a genuine question i'm curious to see the answers to: for the people who love demin, who are the guys in the NBA as you see the "model of success" for demin at the professional level, and what makes you optimistic he can get there?

giddey is cited a lot obviously, but i don't think demin has the same kind of handle or speed
i've seen kyle anderson a few times, but demin developing slomo's level of defensive ability and general craftiness is another pure projection that you don't really see at all in his college tape
the ringer lists shaun livingston as his main comp, but his peak was reliant on the development of a strong midrange game and demin hasn't shown any sign of that to date
they also have deni avdija on there, but i don't think demin is anywhere close to him as an athlete/driver/finisher (and to be fair, i think demin is notably better than him as a passer)

and the other thing that strikes me is...none of those guys are that exciting as nba players? like obviously, those guys are probably all better-than-expected outcomes for the #12 pick, but if you're telling me that kyle anderson is the most successful version of the general archetype of a lottery prospect, i'm not going "holy crap we gotta get that guy"

again, earnestly looking for insights from folks with different perspectives than me on this. i do want to be more open to demin as a prospect, and i generally don't like being overly dismissive of guys who haven't actually played a minute in the league

[HomoSapien]

i don't mean to belabor this point, i'm sorry if i've missed this in the discussion, and i want to emphasize this is a genuine question i'm curious to see the answers to: for the people who love demin, who are the guys in the NBA as you see the "model of success" for demin at the professional level, and what makes you optimistic he can get there?

giddey is cited a lot obviously, but i don't think demin has the same kind of handle or speed
i've seen kyle anderson a few times, but demin developing slomo's level of defensive ability and general craftiness is another pure projection that you don't really see at all in his college tape
the ringer lists shaun livingston as his main comp, but his peak was reliant on the development of a strong midrange game and demin hasn't shown any sign of that to date
they also have deni avdija on there, but i don't think demin is anywhere close to him as an athlete/driver/finisher (and to be fair, i think demin is notably better than him as a passer)

and the other thing that strikes me is...none of those guys are that exciting as nba players? like obviously, those guys are probably all better-than-expected outcomes for the #12 pick, but if you're telling me that kyle anderson is the most successful version of the general archetype of a lottery prospect, i'm not going "holy crap we gotta get that guy"

again, earnestly looking for insights from folks with different perspectives than me on this. i do want to be more open to demin as a prospect, and i generally don't like being overly dismissive of guys who haven't actually played a minute in the league

I don't think there's a guy quite like him. To me he's a tall Rubio with elements of Deni Avdija in his game.

[MGB8]

i don't mean to belabor this point, i'm sorry if i've missed this in the discussion, and i want to emphasize this is a genuine question i'm curious to see the answers to: for the people who love demin, who are the guys in the NBA as you see the "model of success" for demin at the professional level, and what makes you optimistic he can get there?

giddey is cited a lot obviously, but i don't think demin has the same kind of handle or speed
i've seen kyle anderson a few times, but demin developing slomo's level of defensive ability and general craftiness is another pure projection that you don't really see at all in his college tape
the ringer lists shaun livingston as his main comp, but his peak was reliant on the development of a strong midrange game and demin hasn't shown any sign of that to date
they also have deni avdija on there, but i don't think demin is anywhere close to him as an athlete/driver/finisher (and to be fair, i think demin is notably better than him as a passer)

and the other thing that strikes me is...none of those guys are that exciting as nba players? like obviously, those guys are probably all better-than-expected outcomes for the #12 pick, but if you're telling me that kyle anderson is the most successful version of the general archetype of a lottery prospect, i'm not going "holy crap we gotta get that guy"

again, earnestly looking for insights from folks with different perspectives than me on this. i do want to be more open to demin as a prospect, and i generally don't like being overly dismissive of guys who haven't actually played a minute in the league

The hope is that he is Magic, or a somewhat bigger, better shooting (if the shot gets consistent) Giddey. Or if he gets more aggressive on offense, Banchero. But all those are big stretches. I’ve seen lots of mentions of Hedo… that might also be the hope. Or Kukoc. Or Granger? Tatum? Ingram? A shorter Lauri?

I dunno. There is a lot of talent and fluidity there at that size… good form (bad results) on the shot… but not an elite athlete, big questions about whether he can do what he likes to do against high level competition. Or whether the level up is too much, which is what it looked like in college.

[MrSparkle]

My current view of Denim is actually Deni:

+ vision, handles, more athletic perhaps
- intangibles, hustle

Apparently to KC he’s really confident; talked in the 3rd person. That could be a good or bad thing.

Deni wasn’t spectacular as a Wizard, but what I liked was he played really hard, defended and rebounded well. That’s the thing you have to do for 2-3Y minimum if you’re not a shooter, and the main fear with Egor is if he’s not getting touches (and thus showcasing his best talent), he’ll pout and hit the doghouse. But otherwise, the handles and passes stand out to me.