OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[PlayerUp]

please tell me who is comparing biden to obama in terms of fitness to be president

It was an example. Swap Obama for Clinton same thing. Biden is lesser all around than both of them.

Point here is Biden is a weak candidate both mentally and physically.

[PlayerUp]

Keep in mind, I am not supporting Trump here either. Trump disappointed me when he had control over the house and instead of cutting government spending he increased it. I have said I am anti federal government here many times. I think the federal government will never meet in the middle and come to agreements on these pending issues. Swap Trump for Biden, Biden will never please the far left and will never please the right. Nothing will get done still. They will keep fighting just it won't be as outspoken as Trump has done in his term here. The US has become so diverse and have different view points that radical changes need to made in order for agreements to be made on policies.

States should be the ones deciding these key policies in my opinion and have more control. Gun control, immigration, health care, prisons, pretty much almost everything should be decided by the states. It's already happening somewhat in California where they are going against federal government policies especially with immigration and drug control. Under Obama, some conservative states rejected obamacare. If you don't like your states policies, you're free to move to another state. The European Union has similar problems and why I don't think the Union will last much longer either. Many experts think the EU will break apart within 20 years. UK is already in the process of splitting from it.

The states don't need to split but they need more power and control. That's just my opinion and where I think the US should be and could be heading in that direction as there have been discussions over the last 3 years about California and Texas splitting but I think eventually with the massive US federal debt some radical changes will need to be made because the federal government cannot keep spending like this. The US needs to be reformed all around and the #1 place it truly needs to be reformed is the federal government.

[dice]

Gun control, immigration, health care, prisons, pretty much almost everything should be decided by the states.

slavery?

in part the reason that our health care system sucks is that the federal government is not negotiating prices on behalf of a pool of well over 300,000,000 americans. leaving health care to the states ensures that the gouging continues, ensures that millions of americans (including children) will not have access to health care, ensures that millions of unwanted children will be born, etc.

Under Obama, some conservative states rejected obamacare.

which was entirely about politics and not policy

I think eventually with the massive US federal debt some radical changes will need to be made because the federal government cannot keep spending like this.

we've been over this already. the US debt is very manageable right now. as evidenced by our high credit rating. of course it's better to have a lower debt, and we should be keeping an eye on it, but no radical changes are needed

[PlayerUp]

[in part the reason that our health care system sucks is that the federal government is not negotiating prices on behalf of a pool of well over 300,000,000 americans. leaving health care to the states ensures that the gouging continues, ensures that millions of americans (including children) will not have access to health care, ensures that millions of unwanted children will be born, etc.

Federal government is doing nothing. Obamacare did not resolve this. Trump said he has a plan for health care reform, nothing. Nanci said house focus was fixing drug prescription prices, nothing. Both parties are to blame.

we've been over this already. the US debt is very manageable right now. as evidenced by our high credit rating. of course it's better to have a lower debt, and we should be keeping an eye on it, but no radical changes are needed

I couldn't respond to your quote was busy but I saw it. Yes I am aware that some other nations are in much worse shape than us mostly being EU countries. You posted general data but here is the real list - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt. Select % of GDP. This is the true stat you should look at. US ranks #32 but that isn't something to be proud of. The other nations are in for major problems ahead as well. That % is only increasing.

My issue isn't just debt, it's the federal government getting next to nothing done. What has been done over the last 2 years? Anything major? All I can think of is impeachment in the house. Senate all they did was focus at reforming the judicial system in their favor. Federal government is broken and overspending. Eventually a federal government reform/cut will happen.

[Dresden]

They had the senate 12 years ago and placated the republicans in most things. Let's face, the big interests have bought both parties but when it's a tax cut, they always find just enough votes and a couple of dems flip. I don't see any real impactful change under biden. They've all sold out.

Me and TheStig share very similar view points.

Big government is failing on both ends. They're overspending and always fighting with very little getting done. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are corrupt. It's been like this for many years. The only true way to fix this is stop government spending, keep the federal government small, and give the states and cities more power. Lets people be free and move to areas of the US that would be be suited in.

Nothing will change under Biden other than parts of the left will be happy. The far left will still be angry, and everyone on the right will be working to delay anything Biden does for the 2024 election. Biden also doesn't have the mental or physical strength to even be president now yet he thinks he can run the country? It's going to get uglier much uglier no matter who wins in 2020.

Nothing will really change till you take money out of politics. There is no reason the Clinton's could leave the WH in debt and are now worth hundreds of millions of dollars when Bill was just giving speeches and running a foundation and Hilary had a senate seat and cabinet position. They need to overturn corporations are people, super pacs and lobbyists. In this day in age, with free facebook, twitter, plenty of news channels and such, you don't need giant pacs in elections. And I also wish they'd go back to the rule where you had to give equal time to both parties. I feel like someone watching fox news is living in a different world than the person watching MSNBC.

I'd also like to see socialism for the rich fail. All I hear when taxes and programs and minimum wages is brought up is that capitalism is the best but then we need to continually bail out these companies. And each time we do that, it hurts small business and eliminates the middle class. In 10 years a lawyer or DR or software engineer will be the only ones left in the middle class, you'll basically be left with the rich and poor. And they get away with this because of the shared economy, easy credit and low interests rates. So many people actually own soooooo little.

Anyway, I didn't mean to type a manifesto. I just think these identity politics are hear to divide us on issues that no one can actually win when the main issues are based on class and income inequality. That's where I think Bernie of 2016 was a much better candidate than Bernie of 2020.

I'm also not trying to pick on Biden. I think both him and trump would be/are bad presidents. I don't see major differences between the two. Biden might be nicer or might appear to be more liberal but nothing will really change or improve. By withholding a vote, at least I'm not encouraging the democrats to do the same thing and I think another crushing loss would actually accomplish something because nothings really changed in the leadership from 2016.

Yes, take the money out of politics. And when the SC had the chance to do that in Citizens United, they failed, and it was along party lines, 5-4. So had a democratic president had one more appointee on that court, that decision would not have been made. A good reason to vote for a democrat in the White House.

[coldfish]

as long as Biden doesn't go hard left and scare off the middle.

yeah go for the middle just like Clinton did in 2016, agreed, play it safe pick up those "reasonable republicans"

My wife used to get emails from the Clinton campaign and bitch to me about them. They amounted to guilt trips demanding that she vote based on sex instead of issues with some heavy feminist propaganda mixed in.

Clinton may not have gone far left but she didn't go for the middle either. She just ran a terrible campaign and treated the whole thing like a victory tour instead of an election.

[PlayerUp]

Clinton may not have gone far left but she didn't go for the middle either. She just ran a terrible campaign and treated the whole thing like a victory tour instead of an election.

They were celebrating victory before the results even came in:

Watch on YouTube

[musiqsoulchild]

They had the senate 12 years ago and placated the republicans in most things. Let's face, the big interests have bought both parties but when it's a tax cut, they always find just enough votes and a couple of dems flip. I don't see any real impactful change under biden. They've all sold out.

Me and TheStig share very similar view points.

Big government is failing on both ends. They're overspending and always fighting with very little getting done. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are corrupt. It's been like this for many years. The only true way to fix this is stop government spending, keep the federal government small, and give the states and cities more power. Lets people be free and move to areas of the US that would be be suited in.

Nothing will change under Biden other than parts of the left will be happy. The far left will still be angry, and everyone on the right will be working to delay anything Biden does for the 2024 election. Biden also doesn't have the mental or physical strength to even be president now yet he thinks he can run the country? It's going to get uglier much uglier no matter who wins in 2020.

Nothing will really change till you take money out of politics. There is no reason the Clinton's could leave the WH in debt and are now worth hundreds of millions of dollars when Bill was just giving speeches and running a foundation and Hilary had a senate seat and cabinet position. They need to overturn corporations are people, super pacs and lobbyists. In this day in age, with free facebook, twitter, plenty of news channels and such, you don't need giant pacs in elections. And I also wish they'd go back to the rule where you had to give equal time to both parties. I feel like someone watching fox news is living in a different world than the person watching MSNBC.

I'd also like to see socialism for the rich fail. All I hear when taxes and programs and minimum wages is brought up is that capitalism is the best but then we need to continually bail out these companies. And each time we do that, it hurts small business and eliminates the middle class. In 10 years a lawyer or DR or software engineer will be the only ones left in the middle class, you'll basically be left with the rich and poor. And they get away with this because of the shared economy, easy credit and low interests rates. So many people actually own soooooo little.

Anyway, I didn't mean to type a manifesto. I just think these identity politics are hear to divide us on issues that no one can actually win when the main issues are based on class and income inequality. That's where I think Bernie of 2016 was a much better candidate than Bernie of 2020.

I'm also not trying to pick on Biden. I think both him and trump would be/are bad presidents. I don't see major differences between the two. Biden might be nicer or might appear to be more liberal but nothing will really change or improve. By withholding a vote, at least I'm not encouraging the democrats to do the same thing and I think another crushing loss would actually accomplish something because nothings really changed in the leadership from 2016.

The fact that you can even decide not to vote or to write in say Bernie...tells me that you are so engrossed in your own version of the truth that you are unable to see the truth that tens of millions of minorities and marginalized communities face everyday and especially in the last 4 years.

When you hand over the Presidency like that to Trump - by choosing to take an ideological stance against Biden - you actually push the progressive agenda back by 60 years or so.

Trump has been busy getting in conservative judges into the Federal system for all 4 years now.

At the Supreme Court level, Ruth Bader Ginsburg will need to be replaced.

That's just the judicial branch of the government.

Meanwhile Republicans who detest Trump will still turn up and vote. And contribute money to his campaign. And devote their time to him.

This is why liberals are idiots. Me being one of them.

As long as this purity test exists on the left, the rest of the country can easily divide and conquer us.

Black voters saw through that facade this time. Before anyone else. And killed the primary season for Bernie by shifting their entire weight en masse to Biden...who did not even campaign.

Nothing against Bernie. In fact even Bernies team saw this and quickly closed things up regarding the primaries and let Biden take the centre stage. Something they didnt do last election cycle with Hillary.

[MrSparkle]

[in part the reason that our health care system sucks is that the federal government is not negotiating prices on behalf of a pool of well over 300,000,000 americans. leaving health care to the states ensures that the gouging continues, ensures that millions of americans (including children) will not have access to health care, ensures that millions of unwanted children will be born, etc.

Federal government is doing nothing. Obamacare did not resolve this. Trump said he has a plan for health care reform, nothing. Nanci said house focus was fixing drug prescription prices, nothing. Both parties are to blame.

we've been over this already. the US debt is very manageable right now. as evidenced by our high credit rating. of course it's better to have a lower debt, and we should be keeping an eye on it, but no radical changes are needed

I couldn't respond to your quote was busy but I saw it. Yes I am aware that some other nations are in much worse shape than us mostly being EU countries. You posted general data but here is the real list - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt. Select % of GDP. This is the true stat you should look at. US ranks #32 but that isn't something to be proud of. The other nations are in for major problems ahead as well. That % is only increasing.

My issue isn't just debt, it's the federal government getting next to nothing done. What has been done over the last 2 years? Anything major? All I can think of is impeachment in the house. Senate all they did was focus at reforming the judicial system in their favor. Federal government is broken and overspending. Eventually a federal government reform/cut will happen.

There are pros and cons to the US federal gov. Changing domestic policies is a very hard and slow process due to 2-party checks.

Lost in the mix, while I’m all for changing status quo things like racism and economic policies that encourage huge income disparity, truth is usually Federal reform takes about 10 years to show its true effect. That’s not always the worst thing, as stability is actually greater than radical policy change in most cases (obv not racism, but in regards to economic, public service and immigration policy). See Venezuela for a tragic example of how fast a middle class country declined to the point of former engineers and skilled workers digging in garbage cans for food. It’s not because of communism; it’s because of one-party dictatorship and huge political unrest. Any country with stable checks and balances, it prevents one mad individual from spiraling into chaos and military oppression.

The dangerous thing about Trump and McConnell have been their ultra aggressive moves (in Congress until 2018 and all across the aboard in Judicial and Executive branches). That’s just an ethical danger for anybody who has studied law and ethics, social policy, and history.

You want to go ahead and simplify the matter to “they both suck”, then fine. But that is your loss. It’s a simplistic way of looking at choices.

If there’s a 7-11 pizza with maggots on it and a protein bar, sure I’m aware that protein bars aren’t chicken and vegetables, but I’m making the choice to not eat the maggot pizza.

I don’t know how you can fall asleep while Trump lies every day. I tell you as someone whose parents immigrated from a dictatorship regime, his method of governing is very similar to sociopathic egomaniacs like Maduro, Kim and Duterte. There are so many checks and balances to prevent him from literally having the military raid and kill citizens, but the complete detachment from reality and emotional swings and complete bias against intellectuals With a penchant for TV fame and his cult, it’s Exactly what Stalin and Castro did. The dude has made his own propaganda media sources which boost his BS accomplishments and call everybody else liars.

If you don’t see the long-term danger in that, then I have to ask — have you studied history, or ever been to other countries? Where the air quality is unregulated, where the income disparity is greater?

Lastly — oh look surprise surprise, Florida is having a covid crisis after months of patting their backs at handling it better with a Republican governor who fires his medical officers.

So is the NBA in Orlando in jeopardy due to FL being the hot bed? Are these guys going to eat, see women and do everything on site in the bubble for 2 months straight? They made this schedule way longer than the Olympics, and there aren’t women in the camp. Meanwhile the big cities in FL are quickly spreading the virus.

[TheStig]

Me and TheStig share very similar view points.

Big government is failing on both ends. They're overspending and always fighting with very little getting done. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are corrupt. It's been like this for many years. The only true way to fix this is stop government spending, keep the federal government small, and give the states and cities more power. Lets people be free and move to areas of the US that would be be suited in.

Nothing will change under Biden other than parts of the left will be happy. The far left will still be angry, and everyone on the right will be working to delay anything Biden does for the 2024 election. Biden also doesn't have the mental or physical strength to even be president now yet he thinks he can run the country? It's going to get uglier much uglier no matter who wins in 2020.

Nothing will really change till you take money out of politics. There is no reason the Clinton's could leave the WH in debt and are now worth hundreds of millions of dollars when Bill was just giving speeches and running a foundation and Hilary had a senate seat and cabinet position. They need to overturn corporations are people, super pacs and lobbyists. In this day in age, with free facebook, twitter, plenty of news channels and such, you don't need giant pacs in elections. And I also wish they'd go back to the rule where you had to give equal time to both parties. I feel like someone watching fox news is living in a different world than the person watching MSNBC.

I'd also like to see socialism for the rich fail. All I hear when taxes and programs and minimum wages is brought up is that capitalism is the best but then we need to continually bail out these companies. And each time we do that, it hurts small business and eliminates the middle class. In 10 years a lawyer or DR or software engineer will be the only ones left in the middle class, you'll basically be left with the rich and poor. And they get away with this because of the shared economy, easy credit and low interests rates. So many people actually own soooooo little.

Anyway, I didn't mean to type a manifesto. I just think these identity politics are hear to divide us on issues that no one can actually win when the main issues are based on class and income inequality. That's where I think Bernie of 2016 was a much better candidate than Bernie of 2020.

I'm also not trying to pick on Biden. I think both him and trump would be/are bad presidents. I don't see major differences between the two. Biden might be nicer or might appear to be more liberal but nothing will really change or improve. By withholding a vote, at least I'm not encouraging the democrats to do the same thing and I think another crushing loss would actually accomplish something because nothings really changed in the leadership from 2016.

Yes, take the money out of politics. And when the SC had the chance to do that in Citizens United, they failed, and it was along party lines, 5-4. So had a democratic president had one more appointee on that court, that decision would not have been made. A good reason to vote for a democrat in the White House.

Meh even when we had a democratic president who put up a democratic judge candidate in merrick garland, the senate just refused to do anything about it. That's how we got Brett Cavanagh instead of Garland. McConnell will just find another reason to obstruct or if they do somehow flip the entire gov to democrat, they'll just pander to the republicans and special interests like last time. It's all about the money. Last time the Dems had all the houses they barely passed obama care and it didn't even include any spending caps or prescription price reduction or public option. When the republicans had all the gov, they only got in a tax cut, mainly for the rich. These guys are ruled by money and cashing in. It really doesn't matter who's there unless it's going to be someone to break the wheel and get the money out.

[PlayerUp]

I won't quote everything you said but just some comments to what you said:

I don’t know how you can fall asleep while Trump lies every day.

They all do.

I tell you as someone whose parents immigrated from a dictatorship regime, his method of governing is very similar to sociopathic egomaniacs like Maduro, Kim and Duterte.

Philippines is one of the places I have been to recently with extreme poverty. While here I can say most filippinos approve of Duterte. You may not like how aggressive Duterte is but most are satisfied with him.

[PlayerUp]

Last time the Dems had all the houses they barely passed obama care and it didn't even include any spending caps or prescription price reduction or public option. When the republicans had all the gov, they only got in a tax cut, mainly for the rich. These guys are ruled by money and cashing in. It really doesn't matter who's there unless it's going to be someone to break the wheel and get the money out.

This is exactly right.

[TheStig]

as long as Biden doesn't go hard left and scare off the middle.

yeah go for the middle just like Clinton did in 2016, agreed, play it safe pick up those "reasonable republicans"

My wife used to get emails from the Clinton campaign and bitch to me about them. They amounted to guilt trips demanding that she vote based on sex instead of issues with some heavy feminist propaganda mixed in.

Clinton may not have gone far left but she didn't go for the middle either. She just ran a terrible campaign and treated the whole thing like a victory tour instead of an election.

Clinton's problem was that she was very disliked. Her supporters were largely behing her because she'd have been the first woman president and the left didn't like trump.

Her debates and issues were all toward the middle. She largely rejected Bernie's platform issues. She was just as middle as Biden except for a concession here or there for Bernie's people (minor items).

There is no reason to assume Biden will run a better campaign. Remember before super tuesday he was polling behind most of the pack, running out of money and people were wondering if he'd have to drop out. He's been in the place multiple times in previous presidential runs that ended poorly. If it weren't for the DNC clearing all obstacles in his way, he would have come out of super tuesday on the ropes or dropping out.

Biden is a much weaker candidate than Hilary imho. Hilary was coming from the legacy of the Clinton name, very well spoken and was the first woman candidate to last that long. This time, Trump is the imcumbent, has a strong organization and a war chest of money. He's going to be hard for Biden to beat.

[TheStig]

Me and TheStig share very similar view points.

Big government is failing on both ends. They're overspending and always fighting with very little getting done. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are corrupt. It's been like this for many years. The only true way to fix this is stop government spending, keep the federal government small, and give the states and cities more power. Lets people be free and move to areas of the US that would be be suited in.

Nothing will change under Biden other than parts of the left will be happy. The far left will still be angry, and everyone on the right will be working to delay anything Biden does for the 2024 election. Biden also doesn't have the mental or physical strength to even be president now yet he thinks he can run the country? It's going to get uglier much uglier no matter who wins in 2020.

Nothing will really change till you take money out of politics. There is no reason the Clinton's could leave the WH in debt and are now worth hundreds of millions of dollars when Bill was just giving speeches and running a foundation and Hilary had a senate seat and cabinet position. They need to overturn corporations are people, super pacs and lobbyists. In this day in age, with free facebook, twitter, plenty of news channels and such, you don't need giant pacs in elections. And I also wish they'd go back to the rule where you had to give equal time to both parties. I feel like someone watching fox news is living in a different world than the person watching MSNBC.

I'd also like to see socialism for the rich fail. All I hear when taxes and programs and minimum wages is brought up is that capitalism is the best but then we need to continually bail out these companies. And each time we do that, it hurts small business and eliminates the middle class. In 10 years a lawyer or DR or software engineer will be the only ones left in the middle class, you'll basically be left with the rich and poor. And they get away with this because of the shared economy, easy credit and low interests rates. So many people actually own soooooo little.

Anyway, I didn't mean to type a manifesto. I just think these identity politics are hear to divide us on issues that no one can actually win when the main issues are based on class and income inequality. That's where I think Bernie of 2016 was a much better candidate than Bernie of 2020.

I'm also not trying to pick on Biden. I think both him and trump would be/are bad presidents. I don't see major differences between the two. Biden might be nicer or might appear to be more liberal but nothing will really change or improve. By withholding a vote, at least I'm not encouraging the democrats to do the same thing and I think another crushing loss would actually accomplish something because nothings really changed in the leadership from 2016.

The fact that you can even decide not to vote or to write in say Bernie...tells me that you are so engrossed in your own version of the truth that you are unable to see the truth that tens of millions of minorities and marginalized communities face everyday and especially in the last 4 years.

When you hand over the Presidency like that to Trump - by choosing to take an ideological stance against Biden - you actually push the progressive agenda back by 60 years or so.

Trump has been busy getting in conservative judges into the Federal system for all 4 years now.

At the Supreme Court level, Ruth Bader Ginsburg will need to be replaced.

That's just the judicial branch of the government.

Meanwhile Republicans who detest Trump will still turn up and vote. And contribute money to his campaign. And devote their time to him.

This is why liberals are idiots. Me being one of them.

As long as this purity test exists on the left, the rest of the country can easily divide and conquer us.

Black voters saw through that facade this time. Before anyone else. And killed the primary season for Bernie by shifting their entire weight en masse to Biden...who did not even campaign.

Nothing against Bernie. In fact even Bernies team saw this and quickly closed things up regarding the primaries and let Biden take the centre stage. Something they didnt do last election cycle with Hillary.

Why do you assume that the Dems will actually be able to replace Ginsburg. When Obama had his chance to appoint Kennady's replacement it didn't even get a vote.

I'm not sure about the purity test. I don't have one. I just happen to think the candidate soliciting my vote should represent my values and represent me. When I look at Biden and Trump, I simply don't see either of them doing that. I don't see anything that the Dems have done in the last 20+ years that would have me "vote blue no matter who". Furthermore, I don't think Biden is up to the job, nor will he actually do things to better this country. To me, both candidates strike me as what's wrong with politics and the cancer eating up this great country.

[MrSparkle]

I won't quote everything you said but just some comments to what you said:

I don’t know how you can fall asleep while Trump lies every day.

They all do.

I tell you as someone whose parents immigrated from a dictatorship regime, his method of governing is very similar to sociopathic egomaniacs like Maduro, Kim and Duterte.

Philippines is one of the places I have been to recently with extreme poverty. While here I can say most filippinos approve of Duterte. You may not like how aggressive Duterte is but most are satisfied with him.

They do and they don’t. Not to the point of Trump. I’m sure you’re aware but youtubing “Trump lies” gets you an unlimited pool of results you are looking for, kind of like when you google “Jordan highlight reel.”

To say that Biden or Obama lie as much as Trump, it is literally like saying that Kirk Hinrich scored as many buckets as Jordan.

They both played Basketball for the Bulls. They both dribble a ball and shot it. There was a difference in output.

Trump and his Admin have a higher output of Daily lies than any American president in my lifetime. They don’t at all try to be transparent. For god’s sake, they are lying and saying Covid is under control and they agreed to the terms of overseeing the spending of the covid bill, yet refuse to actually allow the oversight (meaning Trump could just be adding to his net worth). Atleast Clinton got impeached and accepted guilt after being cornered and baited into lying about his adultery. Trump denies it while having dozens of active lawsuits and evidence.

I’m aware that some Filipinos like Duterte. That’s what happens when you have a dictatorship. The media begins to glorify his every move while demonizing any challenger. Germans liked Hitler. Spaniards liked Franco.

At a certain point, a megalomaniacs actions finally overwhelm past the tipping point. A good test of your leadership is reading about international approval. Very few outside US like Trump. Very few outside N Korea like Kim (Trump actually thinks he’s an alright guy; and I guess Rodman).

I think it’s appalling to know that we have gotten to the point where a US president is actually more comparable in many ways to those dictators as opposed to EU and UK. Strip the US of its legislative powers and this country would collapse within 6 years of Trump leadership; Venezuela style.

Give me brains and intellect who engage in typical politicization and PR (aka “lying”) over egotistical tough guy salesmen who think they are way better than they really (aka lying) any day of the week. Trump has literally made fortunes selling phony products to his fanbase. From the steaks to the casinos to the university to the Apprentice, it’s more phony that Pro Wrestling. Way more phony. Atleast the Rock would get hit by a real chair.

[Ccwatercraft]

I guess that's where the disagreement is because Trump does get people flustered and Biden is already easily confused. And when you muck it up, his end goal is to get both dirty and not win.

It wasn't Biden vs Bernie. It was Biden vs Bernie and Warren. They cleared out every centrist that was left in Kloubucher and Pete, all of them basically equal with Klobucher passing. Warren took more more Bernie people and smeared him right before with her accusation about him saying a woman couldn't win. I think when they saw Bernie was posied to win it, they rigged it. If all the players stayed the same, he was projected to win super tuesday.

You could have fooled me, I thought Obama was putting out progressive ideas in 2008 but he never actually did them. I think the progressive talk is just there to fool us into voting for them. None of them really make it through. It's why I think they need to go the tea party route instead of joining them like Bernie and AOC. They've got to hold them hostage and accountable instead of going along with "my friend joe".

They had the senate 12 years ago and placated the republicans in most things. Let's face, the big interests have bought both parties but when it's a tax cut, they always find just enough votes and a couple of dems flip. I don't see any real impactful change under biden. They've all sold out.

I think you arent giving Biden much credit. That's your prerogative.

This election will be about Trump.

And about swing state Math.

There are a lot more states at play now....people want to push the Ducey's and the Trumps and the Scott's out.

I can see Biden winning without having to do too much.

It's going to be about surrogates. The Black vote was heavily depressed for Hillary due to "super predators" and the role BLM played in 2016.

Ironically, the organic nature of the same movement now is playing completely in Bidens favor.

What we dont need is liberals trying an ideological purity test that begins and ends with Bernie. But even that will not make a difference this year.

Biden is far more likeable than Hillary was.

And she lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by a net 100,000 votes give or take.

That's the entire Presidency.

Clinton was much more ahead of trump at this point 4 years ago and lost. Biden hasn't been really looked into and picked apart. He's had the easiest road to the nomination that any candidate has. The sexual accusations, Hunter's issues, corruption and his mental decline. He's going to get really punched in the face during these debates. I don't think the ole uncle joe is gonna look so good afterwards. Trump also has sooooooo many more resources than he did last time. He has a complete organization and much more money.

The only way I see this going south is if covid comes back very hard in the early fall and/or wall street actually becomes based on finances.

I agree, Bidens current strategy, nothing, seems to indicate that his campaign agrees. The rare occasion that he does make an appearance, sigh, not good.

The dems I know pretty much just say "Biden, jesus christ" <and not in a good way. His best hope is that the trump hate is strong enough to overcome his obvious issues. I didn't expect him to decline so quickly, he went from my first choice to 5th, to falling off a cliff inside of 6 months.

[TheStig]

I think you arent giving Biden much credit. That's your prerogative.

This election will be about Trump.

And about swing state Math.

There are a lot more states at play now....people want to push the Ducey's and the Trumps and the Scott's out.

I can see Biden winning without having to do too much.

It's going to be about surrogates. The Black vote was heavily depressed for Hillary due to "super predators" and the role BLM played in 2016.

Ironically, the organic nature of the same movement now is playing completely in Bidens favor.

What we dont need is liberals trying an ideological purity test that begins and ends with Bernie. But even that will not make a difference this year.

Biden is far more likeable than Hillary was.

And she lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by a net 100,000 votes give or take.

That's the entire Presidency.

Clinton was much more ahead of trump at this point 4 years ago and lost. Biden hasn't been really looked into and picked apart. He's had the easiest road to the nomination that any candidate has. The sexual accusations, Hunter's issues, corruption and his mental decline. He's going to get really punched in the face during these debates. I don't think the ole uncle joe is gonna look so good afterwards. Trump also has sooooooo many more resources than he did last time. He has a complete organization and much more money.

The only way I see this going south is if covid comes back very hard in the early fall and/or wall street actually becomes based on finances.

I agree, Bidens current strategy, nothing, seems to indicate that his campaign agrees. The rare occasion that he does make an appearance, sigh, not good.

The dems I know pretty much just say "Biden, jesus christ" <and not in a good way. His best hope is that the trump hate is strong enough to overcome his obvious issues. I didn't expect him to decline so quickly, he went from my first choice to 5th, to falling off a cliff inside of 6 months.

I've never seen such a highly touted VP search. It's almost like the VP is more important than the President on the democrat ticket. It's a shame they can't have the VP at the presidential debates.

The only way this turns for Biden is if Covid comes back bad in the early fall and/or the stock market gets connected to actual financials and not pure speculation and the fed propping it up.

[PlayerUp]

I agree, Bidens current strategy, nothing, seems to indicate that his campaign agrees. The rare occasion that he does make an appearance, sigh, not good.

Last time Joe Biden made an appearance he endorsed Donald Trump for President.

Watch on YouTube

[MrSparkle]

I agree, Bidens current strategy, nothing, seems to indicate that his campaign agrees. The rare occasion that he does make an appearance, sigh, not good.

Last time Joe Biden made an appearance he endorsed Donald Trump for President.

Watch on YouTube

Reminds me of the 1000x I’ve heard family, friends, Fox, Evangelicals say: “I don’t like Trump at all. He’s a jerk. But I hate Hilary!”

Huge opponent of that logic, but I believe two things:

1. You (not you Player Up, but in general) dish nonsense on me first, I’ll dish it back to you.

2. Biden is declining but docile. His vp and cabinet selections I trust - they will be diverse and moderate. Trump is aggressive- his vp and cabinet are self-serving extremists.

[DSand]

Biden is a million times better candidate then Trump. To try and play the middle like neither is a good candidate so you may as well not vote is an obvious low key Trump supporter move.