Image ImageImage Image

The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

Moderators: HomoSapien, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man

User avatar
SteveDobbs
Senior
Posts: 680
And1: 131
Joined: Jul 13, 2009

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1621 » by SteveDobbs » Thu Jun 5, 2014 10:53 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
kyrv wrote:
coldfish wrote:The bulls have several non guaranteed deals. They really can trade taj, jimmy and picks for love using those non guaranteed deals as filler.


Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.


Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.


This dream scenario just turned into a nightmare.
User avatar
The Force.
Head Coach
Posts: 7,316
And1: 2,196
Joined: May 30, 2008
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1622 » by The Force. » Thu Jun 5, 2014 10:54 pm

coldfish wrote:
And here is where Noah comes in. On defense, the Bulls could actually have Love cover Bosh and Noah cover Lebron without getting killed.


That's true. I just would hate to see a scenario where Love is getting benched in the 4th quarter because he can't stay in front of anyone.

Plus, I'm not convinced Noah would be able to cover LeBron effectively for an entire quarter.

I would much rather have BOTH Noah and Taj on the floor along with Melo, Rose, and Jimmy. At least with that lineup Miami has literally no weakness to exploit on ISOs and switches.
User avatar
JohnnyKILLroy
RealGM
Posts: 12,455
And1: 4,646
Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Location: Fountain Valley- A nice place to live
       

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1623 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Thu Jun 5, 2014 10:54 pm

If we get Love I could see Melo taking 18.
What is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness.” — Don Draper
Chitownbulls
General Manager
Posts: 8,573
And1: 2,463
Joined: Jun 05, 2013

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1624 » by Chitownbulls » Thu Jun 5, 2014 10:54 pm

If theres any chance to land both.....Chicago Bulls GarPax Get It Done!!!!!!!
DENG HE SUCKS!!!!
User avatar
SteelerSpartan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,529
And1: 849
Joined: Apr 01, 2013
   

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1625 » by SteelerSpartan » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:02 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
RememberLu wrote:you really don't think a suddenly wide open Jimmy. Noah and Taj can get the ball in the hole? I think they can. They struggle when we don't have guys like Rose and Melo on the roster. We had our offense filtering through Noah and Nate Robinson in some of these ridiculous injury riddled seasons. Really not fair to judge under those conditions


Do you think Kendrick Perkins can make wide open jump shots during a game and when it matters? There's no cure for bad offensive players unless you can limit their field goal attempts to wide open dunks like Tyson Chandler and DeAndre Jordan.

Any offensive possession that ends with Taj, Noah or Butler shooting a jump shot is a bad possession.


So now jimmy,Noah, and taj= Perkins :nonono:

He isn't talented to enough to beat a team like Miami by himself. That's the point.


He better be damm close to it with that contract and this cba.....we're not winning a chip with him being a 2nd rate tony Parker with his contract sucking up all that cap.
User avatar
Ben
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 26,799
And1: 2,937
Joined: Feb 09, 2006

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1626 » by Ben » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:04 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
WinCity wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.



Pretty good point. From a talent perspective having Love in place would be a big lure. If we get into a position to offer a reasonable salary, say $18+ mil per season, than I think the odds of getting him improve.


It'll change everything in this chase. Suddenly Rose being a question mark is pretty irrelevant. A team with Melo, Love, Noah, and Thibs alone is enough to challenge for a ring. Rose is a hell of a bonus.

Finding a good bench is important though. If things work out the way I'm hoping, then we'll essentially have a completely brand new team (Noah, Hinrich, Rose would likely be the only returnees). We'll have to find players that understand the culture and possibly Thibs so that there isn't a huge learning curve. Guys like Ray Allen and Pierce could be the next wave of targets for the minimum price tag. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Bogans or CJ Watson return.


And, dare I dream it, Ben Gordon?

Wings who might come cheaply include Anthony Morrow, Kent Bazemore, Shannon Brown, Xavier Henry, Wes Johnson, and maybe even Richard Jefferson.

I would LOVE to get Paul Pierce on a cheap contract but I have to believe that he'll command more than the vet minimum. Brooklyn should certainly keep him if they're able. Just please don't let him join Ray Allen in MIA for yet another ring (shudder).
ryannik09
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,338
And1: 378
Joined: May 07, 2012

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1627 » by ryannik09 » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:06 pm

coldfish wrote:I hate even talking about the dream scenarios but forgive me for a sec. Let me check the salaries:

Rose 18.8M
Noah 12.2M
Love 15.7M
Melo 20M ?
Total = 66.7M

The Bulls would basically be guaranteed to pay the tax in year 1. I really doubt the Bulls could pull this off or even want to.


Tax level will be $78mm next year? They could do it and if the Bulls won't go into the tax for a team built around those 4 we have bigger problems.
RememberLu
RealGM
Posts: 14,877
And1: 8,448
Joined: Feb 22, 2014

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1628 » by RememberLu » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:07 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
RememberLu wrote:you really don't think a suddenly wide open Jimmy. Noah and Taj can get the ball in the hole? I think they can. They struggle when we don't have guys like Rose and Melo on the roster. We had our offense filtering through Noah and Nate Robinson in some of these ridiculous injury riddled seasons. Really not fair to judge under those conditions


Do you think Kendrick Perkins can make wide open jump shots during a game and when it matters? There's no cure for bad offensive players unless you can limit their field goal attempts to wide open dunks like Tyson Chandler and DeAndre Jordan.

Any offensive possession that ends with Taj, Noah or Butler shooting a jump shot is a bad possession.


All three of those players can crash the boards and get buckets inside if theyre 3rd/4th/5th options on offense

I'm holding out hope that Jimmy can hit set 3pt shots going forward, he had a bad season last year but again we relied on him way too much, No Rose. No Melo
User avatar
Red Larrivee
RealGM
Posts: 42,241
And1: 19,086
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Location: Hogging Microphone Time From Tom Dore

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1629 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:08 pm

SteelerSpartan wrote:So now jimmy,Noah, and taj= Perkins :nonono:


Career per 36 minutes:

Butler: 12.0 points, .542 %TS
Noah: 12.0 points, .553%TS
Gibson: 13.4 points, .518%TS

They are not high volume, or natural offensive players. That's the main problem with this team: Hoping that players who have never been good at offense at any level, all of a sudden can become really good at offense. It's not going to happen. If you start those 3 together, you're going to put a **** ton of pressure on Rose and whoever else in the lineup to be really good all the time.

He better be damm close to it with that contract and this cba.....we're not winning a chip with him being a 2nd rate tony Parker with his contract sucking up all that cap.


We aren't paying him to be the best player in the league. Even LeBron couldn't win a championship by himself. Your best players will only take you as far as the cast around them. I'd rather Rose be a Tony Parker where he doesn't always need to be Spiderman every night. We just don't have the players for it to happen.
User avatar
Red Larrivee
RealGM
Posts: 42,241
And1: 19,086
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Location: Hogging Microphone Time From Tom Dore

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1630 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:11 pm

RememberLu wrote:All three of those players can crash the boards and get buckets inside if theyre 3rd/4th/5th options on offense

I'm holding out hope that Jimmy can hit set 3pt shots going forward, he had a bad season last year but again we relied on him way too much, No Rose. No Melo


Neither of those players are 3rd scoring options on a championship team, hell maybe not even a 4th. None of those players have ever been good scorers at any level. Why are they all of a sudden going to become good enough scorers to get us to a championship? It's wishful thinking.

Do we need to go back to the Wizards series to see just how bad that lineup is when it matters on offense? Do you want to relive the 67 points in a playoff elimination game at home?
User avatar
Minalt
Analyst
Posts: 3,241
And1: 1,140
Joined: Apr 30, 2014
       

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67 

Post#1631 » by Minalt » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:13 pm

Tetlak wrote:To be honest, I dont think we can prioritize one guy over the other (Melo/Love). With our luck, and our history of acquiring good players (or lack of history), we just need to get whichever one we can actually get. Melo is a better fit on the court, but if we can get Love first, we have to do it. I know most of us have our hearts set on Melo, as do I, but Love has a bunch of pros as well.

Some things Love brings that Melo does not:

His max contract is cheaper
Hes pretty much the same age as Rose
Keeps us dominant on the glass
Potentially deadly pick and roll with Rose
Lets us trade our most valuable asset (Mirotic)


I'm confused on how being able to trade our most valuable asset is a good thing? Would Mirotic not be involved with getting Love in the first place? Unless your suggesting this now allows us to trade him to another team?
RememberLu
RealGM
Posts: 14,877
And1: 8,448
Joined: Feb 22, 2014

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1632 » by RememberLu » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:14 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
RememberLu wrote:All three of those players can crash the boards and get buckets inside if theyre 3rd/4th/5th options on offense

I'm holding out hope that Jimmy can hit set 3pt shots going forward, he had a bad season last year but again we relied on him way too much, No Rose. No Melo


Neither of those players are 3rd scoring options on a championship team, hell maybe not even a 4th. None of those players have ever been good scorers at any level. Why are they all of a sudden going to become good enough scorers to get us to a championship? It's wishful thinking.

Do we need to go back to the Wizards series to see just how bad that lineup is when it matters on offense? Do you want to relive the 67 points in a playoff elimination game at home?


hah, I don't understand why you think we'd be reliving the Wizards series. We didn't have Rose or Melo in that series. :lol:

Rose/Melo/Taj/Jimmy/Noah is the best starting 5 we've ever had since Jordan times.

I have my doubts about Jimmy being our starting 2 going forward too but things can't always be perfect can they? If you can get Melo and keep that lineup you take it and run
User avatar
Minalt
Analyst
Posts: 3,241
And1: 1,140
Joined: Apr 30, 2014
       

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1633 » by Minalt » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:15 pm

SteveDobbs wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
kyrv wrote:
Okay so Boozer does not need to be included? Obviously his contract could be a sticking point.


Someone suggested trading Boozer, Snell, and Sac's pick to the Sixers for a $22m trade exception. That would set us up really nicely for a Melo trade.

If we can get Love, I think Melo would follow. We'd likely have this starting lineup:

C.Noah
PF.Love
SF.Melo
SG.Hinrich
PG. Rose

If we can find cheap quality bench players, then I would really like our chances.


This dream scenario just turned into a nightmare.

I would take Hinrich at SG for Melo and Love any day of the week.
User avatar
SteelerSpartan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,529
And1: 849
Joined: Apr 01, 2013
   

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1634 » by SteelerSpartan » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:19 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
RememberLu wrote:All three of those players can crash the boards and get buckets inside if theyre 3rd/4th/5th options on offense

I'm holding out hope that Jimmy can hit set 3pt shots going forward, he had a bad season last year but again we relied on him way too much, No Rose. No Melo


Neither of those players are 3rd scoring options on a championship team, hell maybe not even a 4th. None of those players have ever been good scorers at any level. Why are they all of a sudden going to become good enough scorers to get us to a championship? It's wishful thinking.

Do we need to go back to the Wizards series to see just how bad that lineup is when it matters on offense? Do you want to relive the 67 points in a playoff elimination game at home?


Sorry don't put much credence into a playoff series when we had that much salary missing from the lineup.
User avatar
Red Larrivee
RealGM
Posts: 42,241
And1: 19,086
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Location: Hogging Microphone Time From Tom Dore

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1635 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:21 pm

RememberLu wrote:hah, I don't understand why you think we'd be reliving the Wizards series. We didn't have Rose or Melo in that series. :lol:

Rose/Melo/Taj/Jimmy/Noah is the best starting 5 we've ever had since Jordan times.

I have my doubts about Jimmy being our starting 2 going forward too but things can't always be perfect can they? If you can get Melo and keep that lineup you take it and run


A Rose/Melo/Taj/Butler/Noah lineup has one good perimeter shooter. I'm not saying we need to have the perfect team, but there comes a point where we have to stop ignoring these spacing and shooting problems and become a modern day NBA offense. Butler, Taj and Noah are good players, but they cripple spacing when it matters and are not reliable offensively. That's the main problem Oklahoma City runs into when they start Sefolosha and Perkins with Durant and Westbrook. They don't maximize the superstar talent in front of them on offense.

SteelerSpartan wrote:Sorry don't put much credence into a playoff series when we had that much salary missing from the lineup.


I don't necessarily need it to prove a point here. Butler, Noah and Taj have never been good scorers at the collegiate or NBA level. It's just not their strength. The team doesn't need to hope and pray for it to become a strength anymore. They just need to get players who can do that job and balance the team out so they aren't calling on defensive players to score points.
kingkirk
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 80,406
And1: 23,765
Joined: Jan 24, 2004
 

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1636 » by kingkirk » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:24 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Im thinking it could be the Boozer angle. If we are making a deal for players and or picks plus the cap relief of Boozer, that would be extremely interesting for a team like the Twolves.


Just like we don't know how much of a pay cut Melo is willing to take, we don't know what Minny want in return.

Do they want to rebuild completely or do they want to stay afloat with some mid 1sts?

I still think Boston hold the best offer with the 6th overall at their disposal, but an expiring Boozer, Mirotic & 16 may also be intriguing.

I still think it doesn't happen because pick 6 is a quality asset, but if the report is to be believed, at least we're in there.
RememberLu
RealGM
Posts: 14,877
And1: 8,448
Joined: Feb 22, 2014

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1637 » by RememberLu » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:24 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
RememberLu wrote:hah, I don't understand why you think we'd be reliving the Wizards series. We didn't have Rose or Melo in that series. :lol:

Rose/Melo/Taj/Jimmy/Noah is the best starting 5 we've ever had since Jordan times.

I have my doubts about Jimmy being our starting 2 going forward too but things can't always be perfect can they? If you can get Melo and keep that lineup you take it and run


A Rose/Melo/Taj/Butler/Noah lineup has one good perimeter shooter. I'm not saying we need to have the perfect team, but there comes a point where we have to stop ignoring these spacing and shooting problems and become a modern day NBA offense. Butler, Taj and Noah are good players, but they cripple spacing when it matters and are not reliable offensively. That's the main problem Oklahoma City runs into when they start Sefolosha and Perkins with Durant and Westbrook. They don't maximize the superstar talent in front of them on offense.

SteelerSpartan wrote:Sorry don't put much credence into a playoff series when we had that much salary missing from the lineup.


I don't necessarily need it to prove a point here. Butler, Noah and Taj have never been good scorers at the collegiate or NBA level. It's just not their strength. The team doesn't need to hope and pray for it to become a strength anymore. They just need to get players who can do that job and balance the team out so they aren't calling on defensive players to score points.


I understand that argument but its not a pressing issue right now. Melo IS a reliable offensive player and a great 3pt shooter. So is Love. So we're actually going in the direction you want (we all want), its just not all getting done at once
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 29,376
And1: 9,076
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78 

Post#1638 » by Chi town » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:25 pm

khufure wrote:
Chi town wrote:Rose/Kirk/Barea
Harris/Snell
Melo/MDJ
Love/Melo
Noah/McGary

We'll be lucky to get Love or Melo, much less both. Gimme some of whatever you're smoking prz :D


We are both in Cali so there's plenty to go around:)


I know Melo and Love won't happen. Namely because GSW will trump our offer with Klay and Melo will stay for the money. My point is "We have the Assets" to make the deals but it is largely determined by who we are trading with.

We need a Gasol to the Lakers moment to make this all happen. Value wise what I proposed I think gets it done. I'm not sure GSW will throw in Klay.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,064
And1: 13,008
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1639 » by dice » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:29 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
dice wrote:you completely missed the point. it's not about what they once were


It does matter. The better you are at basketball, the higher your floor is when you get older as a player. Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili's "old" is better than a lot of players prime.

of course it is. but you're missing the point once again. it doesn't matter that they used to be elite. they're not anymore. and they're favorites to win the championship. zero superstars. just like detroit ten years ago. it's not a common occurrence, but it's a more common scenario than acquiring carmelo anthony

certainly. but not by much is my point. they pulled out some wins at the ends of games


They pulled out wins because they had multiple stars and we had 1 player doing everything on offense.

and if you replay that series 100 times the most likely outcome is heat in 6 or 7 games. it just didn't play out that way over the course of several days in may of 2011

rose was missing open jumpers that he had knocked down all season long. on a sprained ankle


He was being double teamed and blitzed on pick/rolls with nobody else to help him

as well as missing open jumpers

How are Butler, Taj and Noah supposed to help with that? None of them score efficiently nor are they high volume offensive players.

passing, open jumpers, and dunks. particularly with the improvements noah has made passing. we were starting to make those adjustments in that series

He isn't talented to enough to beat a team like Miami by himself. That's the point.

of course. he needs a sufficient supporting cast. with or without another star

and refresh my memory: who did the celtics trade for those two guys? seems to me they didn't have much of a team before they acquired those two. not so of this bulls team


They traded a 21-year-old Al Jefferson among other things

uh huh. for kevin freaking garnett and ray allen exiting their primes. both of which were better than carmelo anthony (garnett by a mile)
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
User avatar
Tetlak
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,283
And1: 2,364
Joined: Aug 16, 2010

Re: The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67 

Post#1640 » by Tetlak » Thu Jun 5, 2014 11:30 pm

Minalt wrote:
Tetlak wrote:To be honest, I dont think we can prioritize one guy over the other (Melo/Love). With our luck, and our history of acquiring good players (or lack of history), we just need to get whichever one we can actually get. Melo is a better fit on the court, but if we can get Love first, we have to do it. I know most of us have our hearts set on Melo, as do I, but Love has a bunch of pros as well.

Some things Love brings that Melo does not:

His max contract is cheaper
Hes pretty much the same age as Rose
Keeps us dominant on the glass
Potentially deadly pick and roll with Rose
Lets us trade our most valuable asset (Mirotic)


I'm confused on how being able to trade our most valuable asset is a good thing? Would Mirotic not be involved with getting Love in the first place? Unless your suggesting this now allows us to trade him to another team?


Well according to reports so far, Mirotic has not been mentioned. With Love, Mirotic has no real place here. So yes, being able to trade our most valuable asset for a need on the wing becomes a very good thing, because he is likely to fetch something nice.

Return to Chicago Bulls