Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[MissileMike]

I'm bumping this thread. It seems after a four game win streak a trade that many people hated has somehow become too good and threatens the tank. A lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouth when looking at this thread then the game thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1647824#start_here. Hell in this thread you'll probably find my overreaction to it and I'll be glad to admit I was way off.

It seems to be the rare trade where both sides win. I'd definitely do it again, if I were the bulls.

[the ultimates]

I'm bumping this thread. It seems after a four game win streak a trade that many people hated has somehow become too good and threatens the tank. A lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouth when looking at this thread then the game thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1647824#start_here. Hell in this thread you'll probably find my overreaction to it and I'll be glad to admit I was way off.

It seems to be the rare trade where both sides win. I'd definitely do it again, if I were the bulls.

Exactly Thibs moved out his young raw players to get Jimmy and bring in other vets in Teague, Gibson and Crawford. The Bulls got younger, more athletic and got players who still had upside and a top ten pick Lauri. That's essentially three lottery picks and you didn't have to be terrible for three years to do it. But if you look through the thread particularly the first few pages it was seen has a horrendous trade were the Thibs made out like a bandit.

[CmonScal]

Overreaction time - Is it time to jump on the "Thibs is overrated" bandwagon? I always liked Thibs during his time in Chicago. I thought that the minutes thing was certainly an issue, but it was my belief that Thibs overachieved. Now, though, is it possible that Thibs is too much of an old dog stuck in his ways? If Dunn turns out to be a legit player and Thibs continues playing Jimmy, Taj, Wiggins, and KAT 40+ minutes a night (effectively running them into the ground without developing a bench), I think it's safe to say that we won't be looking back as fondly on Thibs as we might've if he'd just hung it up 2 years ago.

[Warren G]

I really hope both rosters are intact and healthy for these February games. Hopefully Zach has meshed with his teammates and we just send Jimmy through some Robez and Bobby screens all night and Niko drops 40 while Lauri drops 30

[gardenofsound]

Justin Patton was part of the deal and is now rehabbing the the D-League. He looks like he's gonna be a good defensive C, which will be a good fit alongside KAT.

[RedBulls23]

Overreaction time - Is it time to jump on the "Thibs is overrated" bandwagon? I always liked Thibs during his time in Chicago. I thought that the minutes thing was certainly an issue, but it was my belief that Thibs overachieved. Now, though, is it possible that Thibs is too much of an old dog stuck in his ways? If Dunn turns out to be a legit player and Thibs continues playing Jimmy, Taj, Wiggins, and KAT 40+ minutes a night (effectively running them into the ground without developing a bench), I think it's safe to say that we won't be looking back as fondly on Thibs as we might've if he'd just hung it up 2 years ago.

I think Thibs is proving that coaches shouldn't be front office executives.

That bench he assembled is not good.

[TheSuzerain]

I'm bumping this thread. It seems after a four game win streak a trade that many people hated has somehow become too good and threatens the tank. A lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouth when looking at this thread then the game thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1647824#start_here. Hell in this thread you'll probably find my overreaction to it and I'll be glad to admit I was way off.

It seems to be the rare trade where both sides win. I'd definitely do it again, if I were the bulls.

Exactly Thibs moved out his young raw players to get Jimmy and bring in other vets in Teague, Gibson and Crawford. The Bulls got younger, more athletic and got players who still had upside and a top ten pick Lauri. That's essentially three lottery picks and you didn't have to be terrible for three years to do it. But if you look through the thread particularly the first few pages it was seen has a horrendous trade were the Thibs made out like a bandit.

He did make out like a bandit. Butler is incredibly good.

Now filling out the roster with Teague, Crawford, Shabazz, and Wiggins? That was very stupid.

[the ultimates]

It seems to be the rare trade where both sides win. I'd definitely do it again, if I were the bulls.

Exactly Thibs moved out his young raw players to get Jimmy and bring in other vets in Teague, Gibson and Crawford. The Bulls got younger, more athletic and got players who still had upside and a top ten pick Lauri. That's essentially three lottery picks and you didn't have to be terrible for three years to do it. But if you look through the thread particularly the first few pages it was seen has a horrendous trade were the Thibs made out like a bandit.

He did make out like a bandit. Butler is incredibly good.

Now filling out the roster with Teague, Crawford, Shabazz, and Wiggins? That was very stupid.

Nobody said Jimmy wasn't good or that he didn't effect winning in a positive way. The Bulls got what most teams try and get when they trade a star, young players and or picks in some combination. The Bulls got that and they got younger, more athletic and players with upside. All things people on this board wanted them to get.

The players you named are all the guys Thibs signed so he can't run to Isola or Van Gundy and talk about how they should have drafted this guy or signed this person. It's all on him.Now the wolves added an all nba player to two number one overall picks who should clearly still be ascending with their overall games. The wolves should make the playoffs and Butler is their best player. Now are the wolves after all this time and money spent recently by Thibs contenders? Are they going to wait for Towns and Wiggins to possibly figure it out while wasting prime Butler years and having to give him a massive contract in the meantime.

[AirP.]

It seems to be the rare trade where both sides win. I'd definitely do it again, if I were the bulls.

Exactly Thibs moved out his young raw players to get Jimmy and bring in other vets in Teague, Gibson and Crawford. The Bulls got younger, more athletic and got players who still had upside and a top ten pick Lauri. That's essentially three lottery picks and you didn't have to be terrible for three years to do it. But if you look through the thread particularly the first few pages it was seen has a horrendous trade were the Thibs made out like a bandit.

He did make out like a bandit. Butler is incredibly good.

Now filling out the roster with Teague, Crawford, Shabazz, and Wiggins? That was very stupid.

I think Thibs knows the team's ceiling was/is limited with 2 young players who can't play good defense, hence all the short contracts. I believe at least one big move is coming in the off season and this team will have dramatically better quality of play next year.

The Butler trade was a big win for both teams because of his age and where both teams are at building towards a contender.

[Warren G]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Definitely, both teams won the trade, it has worked out perfectly for both.

Yes, I keep saying we're on year 4 of the rebuild, because we got 3 lottery picks on their rookie deals. At worst we're on year 3, this started the day Hoiberg got hired, which is why Niko is the only player still on the roster from Thibs' last season.

At the time, I had no problem with Thibs playing guys 40 minutes a night, because "MJ and Pip did it". But with the rest of the league cutting down to 32-35 minutes a night, it's no wonder Thibs' players are worn out by the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter, and it's no surprise that the Thibswolves are disgusting, league-worst bad in the 4th quarter and last 5 minutes.

Yes, the Jimmy trade fine for Thibs, the rest of his moves, no. I don't know what kind of defender Teague is, but when you have a bottom-5 defense after having traded away a good young defender and a good veteran defender at PG....

[Hangtime84]

Overreaction time - Is it time to jump on the "Thibs is overrated" bandwagon? I always liked Thibs during his time in Chicago. I thought that the minutes thing was certainly an issue, but it was my belief that Thibs overachieved. Now, though, is it possible that Thibs is too much of an old dog stuck in his ways? If Dunn turns out to be a legit player and Thibs continues playing Jimmy, Taj, Wiggins, and KAT 40+ minutes a night (effectively running them into the ground without developing a bench), I think it's safe to say that we won't be looking back as fondly on Thibs as we might've if he'd just hung it up 2 years ago.

I think Thibs is proving that coaches shouldn't be front office executives.

That bench he assembled is not good.

Is SVG still GM?

[Susan]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

17-12 is underachieving? KAT just put up 30/15/5/5 on 16 shots. Who knows what he'd do if Thibs wasn't holding him back!

Where on earth is 17-12 underachieving? What is your expectation for that team?

[Hangtime84]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

17-12 is underachieving? KAT just put up 30/15/5/5 on 16 shots. Who knows what he'd do if Thibs wasn't holding him back!

Where on earth is 17-12 underachieving? What is your expectation for that team?

why is those people say thibs overachived annoys me. He does burn guys out in the regular season.

[NikosTheGoat]

Overreaction time - Is it time to jump on the "Thibs is overrated" bandwagon? I always liked Thibs during his time in Chicago. I thought that the minutes thing was certainly an issue, but it was my belief that Thibs overachieved. Now, though, is it possible that Thibs is too much of an old dog stuck in his ways? If Dunn turns out to be a legit player and Thibs continues playing Jimmy, Taj, Wiggins, and KAT 40+ minutes a night (effectively running them into the ground without developing a bench), I think it's safe to say that we won't be looking back as fondly on Thibs as we might've if he'd just hung it up 2 years ago.

I think Thibs is proving that coaches shouldn't be front office executives.

That bench he assembled is not good.

it's a good point. this guy falls in love with players and i reckon he doesn't have the time or energy to find "diamond in the rough" players. like, what was the point of signing taj? or aaron brooks? i had to check and make sure john lucas the third wasn't on that team.

what about stan van gundy? pistons look like an OK ball club, but basically just a knockoff version of his orlando teams.

[WindyCityBorn]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

17-12 is underachieving? KAT just put up 30/15/5/5 on 16 shots. Who knows what he'd do if Thibs wasn't holding him back!

Where on earth is 17-12 underachieving? What is your expectation for that team?

Is 17-12 suppose to be good? People on here claim KAT is top 5 player and that Butler is top 12 so it seems they should be better. I have seen stars do more with lesser supporting players than they have.

[Alcatraz17]

I'm bumping this thread. It seems after a four game win streak a trade that many people hated has somehow become too good and threatens the tank. A lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouth when looking at this thread then the game thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1647824#start_here. Hell in this thread you'll probably find my overreaction to it and I'll be glad to admit I was way off.

Reading through this thread is an absolute joy! May it stay open forever for many posters to enjoy and learn from

So many posts are tempting to quote...but no reason to call anyone out...were all bulls fans...I think

But man, its hard.

Front office bashing - lost the trade
Dunn bashing - bust, cant do anything
Lauri bashing - soft euro

So many people may be 0/3 if LaVine comes back solid.

This thread is proof that people shouldn't jump to conclusions and let emotion get in the way of practical thinking.

Kudos to those who remained positive and weren't afraid to not have a definitive opinion minutes after the trade/pick...

Waiting to draw a conclusion...how bout day!!

[Fantastik_Goat]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

Thibs took a 41 win team, GarPax added Boozer,Korver,Brewer,CJ Watson, Kurt Thomas, and Kieth Bogans. Together they got the best record. The fact that Thibs believed the narrative that you are presenting is what drove GarPax nuts about the guy. The real irony is that Thibs only good moves as an executive so far are to acquire two diamonds in the rough that GarPax drafted.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

17-12 is underachieving? KAT just put up 30/15/5/5 on 16 shots. Who knows what he'd do if Thibs wasn't holding him back!

Maybe play defense?

He's a great offensive player, no doubt.



As good as he is on offense, he's just as bad on defense.

And tonight's monster game came against the 29th defense in the league. I don't know you're personal opinion on the Bulls' 4-game winning streak, but I seen more folks than I can count on both hands say that none of them mean anything, because Kyrie, bad teams, opponents were struggling, etc etc etc.

If you disagree with that popular sentiment, then I apologize, KAT's 30/15/5/5 tonight means something to you.

Where on earth is 17-12 underachieving? What is your expectation for that team?

I'd say I only had two when he was hired, and I'm assuming that anyone who knows anything about the NBA agreed with them - one, that there was no way they would have the worst 4th Qtr Defensive Rating in the entire NBA this season through their first 29 games, 3 points per 100 possessions worse than the Bulls.

Oops.

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4

Two, that in season 2, after giving up only Lavine and Rubio while adding Jimmy, Taj and Teague, that the sun would explode and life on Earth would end long before the Thibswolves had a bottom-10 Defensive Rating after 29 games.

I would have bet not only my left one, but my right one, both of my basses, my guitar, my drums, my studio, my inheritance, the lives of my 3 kids and my grandbaby, to Dalibor Bagaric Rookie Card, that I was right.

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Thankfully, outside of Texas Hold 'Em and the NFL Picks League that I am in, I don't gamble.

Thankfully, the way I was raised, I am certainly man enough to admit when I was wrong.

Because I was waaaaaaay off on those 2.

17-12 includes 7-7 in their last 14 games, 10 against non-playoff teams.

1-3 against the playoff teams, none seeded higher than 6th.



To say "The Thibswolves have underachieved over their last 14 games (48.3% of their schedule) is a bigger understatement than "Trump is kind of a jerk".

I can only speak to what I've read here about Thibswolves fans on their RealGM board, and that hearsay is that their team is performing a pretty decent amount below their expectations.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Remember when Thibs rookie season was taking a 41 win team and making them have the best record in the league?

Now he underachieves and runs 22 year olds into the ground and there's a legion of people making excuses for him

Thibs took a 41 win team, GarPax added Boozer,Korver,Brewer,CJ Watson, Kurt Thomas, and Kieth Bogans. Together they got the best record. The fact that Thibs believed the narrative that you are presenting is what drove GarPax nuts about the guy. The real irony is that Thibs only good moves as an executive so far are to acquire two diamonds in the rough that GarPax drafted.

DAYUM!!! /endthread