2018 Draft Thread #6

[Benedict Miller]

I just do not understand how you can justifiably put Carter above Bagley. One guy is completely dominating the ACC as a freshman, has better measurable and WAY more potential. The other guy is Carter...who projects as solid at best.

The argument would be, I imagine, that Carter is longer, the better passer, the better shooter, the better defender, his game translates better, he's more NBA ready, and upside wise he's not much of a downgrade in terms of age (still 18 himself) and athletically he's pretty good as well.

There's a fair argument for it, but like you, I'm not quite willing to go forego Bagley's pure upside, but that's based on the hope that Bagley turns in to a non-liability defensively, and his stroke and overall skill level offensively improves considerably over the next few years.

What is an NBA player comparison for Carter? Horford?

Definitely, Carter can be an all star if he wants to be...but there's something missing

[GimmeDat]

I just do not understand how you can justifiably put Carter above Bagley. One guy is completely dominating the ACC as a freshman, has better measurable and WAY more potential. The other guy is Carter...who projects as solid at best.

The argument would be, I imagine, that Carter is longer, the better passer, the better shooter, the better defender, his game translates better, he's more NBA ready, and upside wise he's not much of a downgrade in terms of age (still 18 himself) and athletically he's pretty good as well.

There's a fair argument for it, but like you, I'm not quite willing to go forego Bagley's pure upside, but that's based on the hope that Bagley turns in to a non-liability defensively, and his stroke and overall skill level offensively improves considerably over the next few years.

What is an NBA player comparison for Carter? Horford?

It's as good a comparison as any, imo. Carter boards though.

[Ccwatercraft]

Looking forward to match madness. Only time I watch full games.

[shakes0]

i wouldn't put much stock at all into Trae's conference play. Way too much usage and stuck on a team with nothing but bums and a coach who just rolled the ball out there in November and didn't do anything else the rest of the year.

Then what do you put stock in? Oklahoma has played like this all season. They never adjusted when their opponents did.

in the first half of the season some of his teammates were actually showing up and making plays. James, Manek, McGusty, Odomes just to name a few. Around the start of the year every single one of them stopped making shots and plays. Also stopped guarding guys. At that point everyone keyed on Young and it was 1v5. I wouldn't judge him by how he played in the second half of the season when he was essentially all alone.

I watched most of OU's games, everyone that was on DTV.

[GameBredAPBT]

A lot of draft guys are pushing Carter over Bagley at this point, so at #9 I don't think you can complain with Carter at all. I'm still taking Bagley over him, though, I think, on potential alone.

I'm starting to feel like the actual outcome of the draft might not be so cut and dry as I would've previously predicted. Maybe it does go as I would expect, maybe not, but I'm a lot more wary that my belief of who may be available at certain points in the draft might go completely out the window at some point.

As for this Pels pick.. man, that whole 15-25 range is SO tight. The Spurs have 38 wins and are in the lottery right now.. Portland have 41 wins and have the 5th best record in the league. Every Pels win/loss from this point on is going to massive for that picks value, and of course the results of surrounding teams.

And as for our pick? The Knicks are only half a game behind us now. I'm scared we're going to be even worse than 8th. Just give me Mikal and be done with it at this point. We're not as bad as the top tanking teams, it's ridiculous how hard they're throwing it in.

Who that is currently projected in the top 5 could see slipping as far as 9th?

Damn brahhhhh. Thought you were taking a break from da boards? Thought YouGotGarred was ruining your life?

[WindyCityBorn]

A lot of draft guys are pushing Carter over Bagley at this point, so at #9 I don't think you can complain with Carter at all. I'm still taking Bagley over him, though, I think, on potential alone.

I'm starting to feel like the actual outcome of the draft might not be so cut and dry as I would've previously predicted. Maybe it does go as I would expect, maybe not, but I'm a lot more wary that my belief of who may be available at certain points in the draft might go completely out the window at some point.

As for this Pels pick.. man, that whole 15-25 range is SO tight. The Spurs have 38 wins and are in the lottery right now.. Portland have 41 wins and have the 5th best record in the league. Every Pels win/loss from this point on is going to massive for that picks value, and of course the results of surrounding teams.

And as for our pick? The Knicks are only half a game behind us now. I'm scared we're going to be even worse than 8th. Just give me Mikal and be done with it at this point. We're not as bad as the top tanking teams, it's ridiculous how hard they're throwing it in.

Who that is currently projected in the top 5 could see slipping as far as 9th?

Damn brahhhhh. Thought you were taking a break from da boards? Thought YouGotGarred was ruining your life?

I took a break. A few days. That's a lifetime on the internet. Lowered expectations now.

I did stop watching games though after only missing one for like the first 60 games.

[Darius Miles Davis]

Both the Magic and Kings won games tonight against playoff contenders. Those teams are still in range.

[WindyCityBorn]

Can any one give any recent example of players like that stayed in college through their junior seasons like Mikal Bridges that ended up becoming perennial all-stars? Seems weird to think a guy that is only 21 years old doesn't have much potential left, but it almost seems that way when most prospects leave after or two years in college at the most.

Kris Dunn is the only recent player I can think of that stayed in school 3 years or more and went top 5.

[Darius Miles Davis]

Can any one give any recent example of players like that stayed in college through their junior seasons like Mikal Bridges that ended up becoming perennial all-stars? Seems weird to think a guy that is only 21 years old doesn't have much potential left, but it almost seems that way when most prospects leave after or two years in college at the most.

Kris Dunn is the only recent player I can think of that stayed in school 3 years or more and went top 5.

Buddy Hield went one pick below Dunn. He was a senior. He's been somewhat of a disappointment so far. Taurean Prince went later in the lottery (#12). He was a senior. He looks promising.

A few years back, Victor Oladipo was a junior, CJ McCollum was a senior. Going back further than that, Damien Lillard was a junior, Kemba Walker was a junior, Klay Thompson was a junior, Steph Curry was a junior, Dwyane Wade was a junior.

So...it is possible.

[WindyCityBorn]

Can any one give any recent example of players like that stayed in college through their junior seasons like Mikal Bridges that ended up becoming perennial all-stars? Seems weird to think a guy that is only 21 years old doesn't have much potential left, but it almost seems that way when most prospects leave after or two years in college at the most.

Kris Dunn is the only recent player I can think of that stayed in school 3 years or more and went top 5.

Buddy Hield went one pick below Dunn. He was a senior. He's been somewhat of a disappointment so far. Taurean Prince went later in the lottery (#12). He was a senior. He looks promising.

A few years back, Victor Oladipo was a junior, CJ McCollum was a senior. Going back further than that, Damien Lillard was a junior, Kemba Walker was a junior, Klay Thompson was a junior, Steph Curry was a junior, Dwyane Wade was a junior.

So...it is possible.

More all-star level players than expected. Definitely not the norm, but not completely unrealistic either. Our own(formerly) Jimmy Butler qualifies as well, but he bucked all kinds of historical trends so definitely an anomaly.

[Dresden]

Can any one give any recent example of players like that stayed in college through their junior seasons like Mikal Bridges that ended up becoming perennial all-stars? Seems weird to think a guy that is only 21 years old doesn't have much potential left, but it almost seems that way when most prospects leave after or two years in college at the most.

Kris Dunn is the only recent player I can think of that stayed in school 3 years or more and went top 5.

Jimmy Butler.

[NDave79]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Some other names that might fit somewhat are

Draymond Green
Milsap
Isaiah Thomas
possibly Middleton

[GimmeDat]

How would you guys feel about this roster next season?

Dunn / Payne / Grant
Lavine / Valentine / Blakeney
Mik. Bridges / Nwaba
Markkanen / Portis / Vonleh
Lopez / M.Robinson

Because at it stands, that's probably what I'd aim to do with the picks if we stand still.

The one thing that's starting to become apparent to me is we have good depth but little in the way of top end talent. That's where the top 5 pick would come in handy. We should consolidate talent with some trade, I think. I like Nwaba and Portis and want to keep both long term. I would be shopping Valentine and Grant first up, and of course Lopez/Holiday as well. If a great offer was out there, Portis could/should be moved and Vonleh could be brought back as backup PF insurance, because he's looked solid.

In an ideal world, I'd try and trade Portis, Valentine along with whatever other bits and pieces we can get trading our other expendable pieces away and get Oubre from Washington. Then try and use both our picks to trade up and get a C like JJJ or Bamba.

Could have -

Dunn / Payne
Lavine / Blakeney
Oubre / Nwaba
Markkanen / Vonleh
Bamba / Felicio

We've stripped the depth a bit, but that's okay, because I think the starting 5 has a lot more upside. Plus most of the stripped depth gives a further opportunity to other young players.

I have no clue if Oubre is available, just an example, but I think we do need to be creative and look at all options, because roster A is well built and balanced but lacking in star talent, and roster B or something similar has more upside, and depth can always be filled out later, especially since we have cap space.

I think Portis is legit, but I'm a bit nervous about paying for him given he will always be behind Markkanen. I use Oubre as an example because he clearly fits a starting spot and fits the other pieces (which Mikal Bridges will also do should we simply keep the pick, but we won't have a star talent like Bamba, JJJ, Porter, etc.)

Some tough decisions to be made this off-season.

[qianlong]

How would you guys feel about this roster next season?

Dunn / Payne / Grant
Lavine / Valentine / Blakeney
Mik. Bridges / Nwaba
Markkanen / Portis / Vonleh
Lopez / M.Robinson

Because at it stands, that's probably what I'd aim to do with the picks if we stand still.

The one thing that's starting to become apparent to me is we have good depth but little in the way of top end talent. That's where the top 5 pick would come in handy. We should consolidate talent with some trade, I think. I like Nwaba and Portis and want to keep both long term. I would be shopping Valentine and Grant first up, and of course Lopez/Holiday as well. If a great offer was out there, Portis could/should be moved and Vonleh could be brought back as backup PF insurance, because he's looked solid.

In an ideal world, I'd try and trade Portis, Valentine along with whatever other bits and pieces we can get trading our other expendable pieces away and get Oubre from Washington. Then try and use both our picks to trade up and get a C like JJJ or Bamba.

Could have -

Dunn / Payne
Lavine / Blakeney
Oubre / Nwaba
Markkanen / Vonleh
Bamba / Felicio

We've stripped the depth a bit, but that's okay, because I think the starting 5 has a lot more upside. Plus most of the stripped depth gives a further opportunity to other young players.

I have no clue if Oubre is available, just an example, but I think we do need to be creative and look at all options, because roster A is well built and balanced but lacking in star talent, and roster B or something similar has more upside, and depth can always be filled out later, especially since we have cap space.

I think Portis is legit, but I'm a bit nervous about paying for him given he will always be behind Markkanen. I use Oubre as an example because he clearly fits a starting spot and fits the other pieces (which Mikal Bridges will also do should we simply keep the pick, but we won't have a star talent like Bamba, JJJ, Porter, etc.)

Some tough decisions to be made this off-season.

I agree that the first line up lacks top talent, although i think oubre does not move the needle.
On the other hand i’m on the trade Portis. He is a solid piece but he is not a center, not going to be an all star level player, we have a back up option and he is going to get paid. So i will try to get the most for him on draft night.
We need two pieces a sf and a center. Our next year protected pick may come in play.

The ideal scenario would be to come out of the draft with a doncic and Bamba/jjj.
The alternative is to get one and hope for FA.

Dunn/Payne/Grant
Nwaba/Lavine
Doncic/holiday/valentine
Markk/Vonleh
JJJ/rolo

Hard to attain but that looks nice.

[Axolotl]

The ideal scenario would be to come out of the draft with a doncic and Bamba/jjj.
The alternative is to get one and hope for FA.

Dunn/Payne/Grant
Nwaba/Lavine
Doncic/holiday/valentine
Markk/Vonleh
JJJ/rolo

Hard to attain but that looks nice.

That would be an awesome outcome. Hard to attain is an understatement, though. Both Doncic and 3J are projected above our pick range, I'd consider getting either one of them a quality tanking outcome.

[GimmeDat]

How would you guys feel about this roster next season?

Dunn / Payne / Grant
Lavine / Valentine / Blakeney
Mik. Bridges / Nwaba
Markkanen / Portis / Vonleh
Lopez / M.Robinson

Because at it stands, that's probably what I'd aim to do with the picks if we stand still.

The one thing that's starting to become apparent to me is we have good depth but little in the way of top end talent. That's where the top 5 pick would come in handy. We should consolidate talent with some trade, I think. I like Nwaba and Portis and want to keep both long term. I would be shopping Valentine and Grant first up, and of course Lopez/Holiday as well. If a great offer was out there, Portis could/should be moved and Vonleh could be brought back as backup PF insurance, because he's looked solid.

In an ideal world, I'd try and trade Portis, Valentine along with whatever other bits and pieces we can get trading our other expendable pieces away and get Oubre from Washington. Then try and use both our picks to trade up and get a C like JJJ or Bamba.

Could have -

Dunn / Payne
Lavine / Blakeney
Oubre / Nwaba
Markkanen / Vonleh
Bamba / Felicio

We've stripped the depth a bit, but that's okay, because I think the starting 5 has a lot more upside. Plus most of the stripped depth gives a further opportunity to other young players.

I have no clue if Oubre is available, just an example, but I think we do need to be creative and look at all options, because roster A is well built and balanced but lacking in star talent, and roster B or something similar has more upside, and depth can always be filled out later, especially since we have cap space.

I think Portis is legit, but I'm a bit nervous about paying for him given he will always be behind Markkanen. I use Oubre as an example because he clearly fits a starting spot and fits the other pieces (which Mikal Bridges will also do should we simply keep the pick, but we won't have a star talent like Bamba, JJJ, Porter, etc.)

Some tough decisions to be made this off-season.

I agree that the first line up lacks top talent, although i think oubre does not move the needle.
On the other hand i’m on the trade Portis. He is a solid piece but he is not a center, not going to be an all star level player, we have a back up option and he is going to get paid. So i will try to get the most for him on draft night.
We need two pieces a sf and a center. Our next year protected pick may come in play.

The ideal scenario would be to come out of the draft with a doncic and Bamba/jjj.
The alternative is to get one and hope for FA.

Dunn/Payne/Grant
Nwaba/Lavine
Doncic/holiday/valentine
Markk/Vonleh
JJJ/rolo

Hard to attain but that looks nice.

I agree, that would be awesome, but I just feel at this point it's a bit too optimistic. As you said, next years pick would definitely need to come in to play, hopefully with suitable protections. And honestly, I don't mind that idea at all - next draft is weaker beyond the first 5 or so picks, the Bulls get to shorten their rebuilding window, and they get to use their cap space at the best possible time, leveraging Lavine's bird rights.

Just comes down to whether those deals are available. I don't think it'll be easy to trade up in to the 3-5 range where those guys should be. If the trade up assets are Portis and the 2019 pick, I think the best you can do is one 3-5 pick and one 7-12 pick. I'd do the same thing and draft JJJ and Mikal. From there, spend the FA money, and see if you can get some value from Asik's deal next season.

[GimmeDat]

Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?

[Dominator83]

The ideal scenario would be to come out of the draft with a doncic and Bamba/jjj.
The alternative is to get one and hope for FA.

Dunn/Payne/Grant
Nwaba/Lavine
Doncic/holiday/valentine
Markk/Vonleh
JJJ/rolo

Hard to attain but that looks nice.

That would be an awesome outcome. Hard to attain is an understatement, though. Both Doncic and 3J are projected above our pick range, I'd consider getting either one of them a quality tanking outcome.

Yea someone giving us one of those top prospects for a next year pick is extremely far fetched. And even if so, you can bet your ass the other team would demand it UNprotected. Which imo is still a great deal for us.

[Axolotl]

Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?

Right now, right here I would. For me it would essentially mean trading a proven, solid 6th man -type for a potential star.

I think Young's playmaking abilities should translate, and he is an obvious floor stretcher. Even with his questionable defence, that projects to an adequate 2nd unit PG at the minimum. With the upside being a winning impact player, I don't see us losing in this trade.

[GimmeDat]

Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?

Right now, right here I would. For me it would essentially mean trading a proven, solid 6th man -type for a potential star.

I think Young's playmaking abilities should translate, and he is an obvious floor stretcher. Even with his questionable defence, that projects to an adequate 2nd unit PG at the minimum. With the upside being a winning impact player, I don't see us losing in this trade.

It's a tricky one for me. I think it's an interesting question because in general, you'll find most people are against him with our own pick, outside of the few people who are 100% sold on his star power. Of course, if he's available at the Pels pick outright, he's likely the BPA. So the middle-ground for me is that range where you'd have to trade up for him.

I'm on the fence, I think I would. His regression is a bit scary, I think at worst he's a good 2nd unit player, obviously he has star upside, he's one of the biggest variance picks in the draft. It's not a team need necessarily, but you gotta give it a crack at that point in the draft imo. I like Portis so it would be a big loss, but you're also avoiding the upcoming Portis contract as well.

Unfortunately Dunn and Young can't co-exist at all though. Both guys need the ball in their hands. So that will probably turn in to an either/or situation. And of course Young/Lavine would be terrible defensively if that's the way it plays out. But purely trying to get the most value out of the draft as possible, it's an interesting outcome. I think Young dropping is plausible as well... if he doesn't go to Orlando, I would see SAC, DAL, us, all passing, and if I'm NY I think I take Carter/Mikal (whoever's there) over him.

Just some food for thought. Out of the few teams that could actually fit in a PG, Sexton's got all the momentum right now and could go before Young as well.