Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
Embarrassing Markkanen by benching and marginalizing him is turning out to be a really stupid move by the Bulls - another one in a long line of them.
Lauri now knows he's out the door and essentially has nothing to win by trying hard and risking injury. He knows that the teams interested in him don't give a F about what he does the rest of the season. They're not naive. They know the Bulls are a horrible team with a bad coach and that Lauri's situation is non-salvageable anyway after this. Markkanen has a clean track record as far as being coachable and not causing problems, which will come in handy now. His agent will spread the word that Markkanen is basically just waiting for the season to end while chilling in the corner - IF he even plays.
The Bulls have f**ed this up royally, starting from the moment they decided to play hardball with Lauri in the extension negotiations. A case study in how to waste an asset.
Lauri now knows he's out the door and essentially has nothing to win by trying hard and risking injury. He knows that the teams interested in him don't give a F about what he does the rest of the season. They're not naive. They know the Bulls are a horrible team with a bad coach and that Lauri's situation is non-salvageable anyway after this. Markkanen has a clean track record as far as being coachable and not causing problems, which will come in handy now. His agent will spread the word that Markkanen is basically just waiting for the season to end while chilling in the corner - IF he even plays.
The Bulls have f**ed this up royally, starting from the moment they decided to play hardball with Lauri in the extension negotiations. A case study in how to waste an asset.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
How to develop big players? You involve them in offense. Involve them in pick & roll. Want them to learn to play in post / midrange? Give him the ball to the post / midrange and let him try and don't stop trying when he fails once. Have Bulls done neither? If not then Bulls really never tried to improve Lauri's game. AD, K.Love and J.Collins didn't create their own shots when they come to NBA. They were used as roll / pop guys in their teams PnR's. But they were involved in offense and to develop player you really need to involve them in offense. First two years in Bulls it was developing Dunn. Bulls didn't try to develop Dunn and Lauri connection, they just tried to develop Dunn. First with Lopez and then with WCJ. In his third year it was about Lavine and his connection with WCJ. I never saw any attempt from Bulls side that they really tried to improve Lauri to be anything else what he is now. All they wanted was a stretch 4. Actually I take that back. They tried to make him stretch 5 by having him to lift too much weights.
I do understand fans. Lauri showed so much more on his first year and even more on the national team. But to be honest their expectations went out of the roof. Partly because what papers wrote about him, but also because they wanted to see something bright in the trade and in Bulls future. Everyone was super high on Dunn in his first two years, even though it was obvious from the first day that his playmaking skill were limited, and fans were disappointed when he didn't become next J.Kidd or something. Then they expected Lauri to become next 'Dirk'. Even thought I don't believe even Dirk would become next 'Dirk' in modern basketball. And beginning of this year they somehow expected Coby to become next J.Wall even though it was obvious Coby don't have good enough court vision (even though he had more than Dunn). So fans create these humongous expectations to these kids which are impossible to reach because they never had the skill set at the first place and when 99% of the players can't reach those then it is suddenly players fault. I never expected Lauri to become next Dirk, even though I did see the similarity of their playing style when he played in national team (not in Arizona, where he was used as a stretch 4.). National team used Lauri as a PnR big and they fed him the ball to the midrange (usually in shoulder area) and let him play one-on-one. So in national team he scored in a ways that Arizona or Bulls never has used him. What I expected Lauri to become was the third best player a good playoff team and if everything would have falled to right positions then maybe second best, but that would have meant he would have right coach, right players from the beginning. So I never had these over the roof expectations for him, so I won't be as disappointed when he doesn't reach those. Can he still be third best player in good playoff team? Everything is not lost, but he needs another coach, another players around him, so it won't be happening in Bulls.
Is it all fans and FO's fault that Lauri hasn't reach expectations? No, Lauri decides what to do with his life. When Bulls FO asked him to start weight training to become stretch 5 he should have said 'No, that is not where NBA is going' and should have refused and kept on training to become more agile and faster, but instead he did what they asked and threw 2-3 years of his development down the drain. No matter how much people with Lauri's physical structure train they will never be able to stop Embiid's with pure strength. I do presume the idea become from Bulls FO because all the youth training Lauri got was to make him more of a SF than PF. It would be strange that Lauri with his backup team would change the target so suddenly. I might be wrong though, cause have no connections to Bulls FO or Lauri's team.
For Lauri best thing that can happen is to get out of Bulls. It is a toxic environment for him right now. Can he still become third best player in a good playoff team? Yes, but now than ever he needs the right team, so that's why S&T might best option for him. Offer sheet always carries the risk of Bulls matching and thus making it impossible to be traded to that team for a year.
I do understand fans. Lauri showed so much more on his first year and even more on the national team. But to be honest their expectations went out of the roof. Partly because what papers wrote about him, but also because they wanted to see something bright in the trade and in Bulls future. Everyone was super high on Dunn in his first two years, even though it was obvious from the first day that his playmaking skill were limited, and fans were disappointed when he didn't become next J.Kidd or something. Then they expected Lauri to become next 'Dirk'. Even thought I don't believe even Dirk would become next 'Dirk' in modern basketball. And beginning of this year they somehow expected Coby to become next J.Wall even though it was obvious Coby don't have good enough court vision (even though he had more than Dunn). So fans create these humongous expectations to these kids which are impossible to reach because they never had the skill set at the first place and when 99% of the players can't reach those then it is suddenly players fault. I never expected Lauri to become next Dirk, even though I did see the similarity of their playing style when he played in national team (not in Arizona, where he was used as a stretch 4.). National team used Lauri as a PnR big and they fed him the ball to the midrange (usually in shoulder area) and let him play one-on-one. So in national team he scored in a ways that Arizona or Bulls never has used him. What I expected Lauri to become was the third best player a good playoff team and if everything would have falled to right positions then maybe second best, but that would have meant he would have right coach, right players from the beginning. So I never had these over the roof expectations for him, so I won't be as disappointed when he doesn't reach those. Can he still be third best player in good playoff team? Everything is not lost, but he needs another coach, another players around him, so it won't be happening in Bulls.
Is it all fans and FO's fault that Lauri hasn't reach expectations? No, Lauri decides what to do with his life. When Bulls FO asked him to start weight training to become stretch 5 he should have said 'No, that is not where NBA is going' and should have refused and kept on training to become more agile and faster, but instead he did what they asked and threw 2-3 years of his development down the drain. No matter how much people with Lauri's physical structure train they will never be able to stop Embiid's with pure strength. I do presume the idea become from Bulls FO because all the youth training Lauri got was to make him more of a SF than PF. It would be strange that Lauri with his backup team would change the target so suddenly. I might be wrong though, cause have no connections to Bulls FO or Lauri's team.
For Lauri best thing that can happen is to get out of Bulls. It is a toxic environment for him right now. Can he still become third best player in a good playoff team? Yes, but now than ever he needs the right team, so that's why S&T might best option for him. Offer sheet always carries the risk of Bulls matching and thus making it impossible to be traded to that team for a year.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
Hugi Mancura wrote:How to develop big players? You involve them in offense. Involve them in pick & roll. Want them to learn to play in post / midrange? Give him the ball to the post / midrange and let him try and don't stop trying when he fails once. Have Bulls done neither? If not then Bulls really never tried to improve Lauri's game. AD, K.Love and J.Collins didn't create their own shots when they come to NBA. They were used as roll / pop guys in their teams PnR's. But they were involved in offense and to develop player you really need to involve them in offense. First two years in Bulls it was developing Dunn. Bulls didn't try to develop Dunn and Lauri connection, they just tried to develop Dunn. First with Lopez and then with WCJ. In his third year it was about Lavine and his connection with WCJ. I never saw any attempt from Bulls side that they really tried to improve Lauri to be anything else what he is now. All they wanted was a stretch 4. Actually I take that back. They tried to make him stretch 5 by having him to lift too much weights.
I do understand fans. Lauri showed so much more on his first year and even more on the national team. But to be honest their expectations went out of the roof. Partly because what papers wrote about him, but also because they wanted to see something bright in the trade and in Bulls future. Everyone was super high on Dunn in his first two years, even though it was obvious from the first day that his playmaking skill were limited, and fans were disappointed when he didn't become next J.Kidd or something. Then they expected Lauri to become next 'Dirk'. Even thought I don't believe even Dirk would become next 'Dirk' in modern basketball. And beginning of this year they somehow expected Coby to become next J.Wall even though it was obvious Coby don't have good enough court vision (even though he had more than Dunn). So fans create these humongous expectations to these kids which are impossible to reach because they never had the skill set at the first place and when 99% of the players can't reach those then it is suddenly players fault. I never expected Lauri to become next Dirk, even though I did see the similarity of their playing style when he played in national team (not in Arizona, where he was used as a stretch 4.). National team used Lauri as a PnR big and they fed him the ball to the midrange (usually in shoulder area) and let him play one-on-one. So in national team he scored in a ways that Arizona or Bulls never has used him. What I expected Lauri to become was the third best player a good playoff team and if everything would have falled to right positions then maybe second best, but that would have meant he would have right coach, right players from the beginning. So I never had these over the roof expectations for him, so I won't be as disappointed when he doesn't reach those. Can he still be third best player in good playoff team? Everything is not lost, but he needs another coach, another players around him, so it won't be happening in Bulls.
Is it all fans and FO's fault that Lauri hasn't reach expectations? No, Lauri decides what to do with his life. When Bulls FO asked him to start weight training to become stretch 5 he should have said 'No, that is not where NBA is going' and should have refused and kept on training to become more agile and faster, but instead he did what they asked and threw 2-3 years of his development down the drain. No matter how much people with Lauri's physical structure train they will never be able to stop Embiid's with pure strength. I do presume the idea become from Bulls FO because all the youth training Lauri got was to make him more of a SF than PF. It would be strange that Lauri with his backup team would change the target so suddenly. I might be wrong though, cause have no connections to Bulls FO or Lauri's team.
For Lauri best thing that can happen is to get out of Bulls. It is a toxic environment for him right now. Can he still become third best player in a good playoff team? Yes, but now than ever he needs the right team, so that's why S&T might best option for him. Offer sheet always carries the risk of Bulls matching and thus making it impossible to be traded to that team for a year.
Unless there's a S&T, Lauri's agent will probably inform the team that Lauri doesn't want them to match. That's unfortunate for the Bulls, but again... they brought this on themselves. Teams won't bring back players who don't want to be there, and after this s**t... Markkanen would be crazy to return.
AK / BD have poisoned the relationship and they'll have to pay the price.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
Accepting your version as reality, pay what price? Losing a player they didn’t want to pay market value and are now intentionally sabotaging and disrespecting to the point he’s refusing to earn his paycheck out of spite?
Assuming all that to be true, doesn’t sound like the Bulls would be paying much of a price at all from their perspective. Assuming all that to be true, they evidently think Lauri is a paper bag in the wind.
Assuming all that to be true, doesn’t sound like the Bulls would be paying much of a price at all from their perspective. Assuming all that to be true, they evidently think Lauri is a paper bag in the wind.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
DuckIII wrote:Accepting your version as reality, pay what price? Losing a player they didn’t want to pay market value and are now intentionally sabotaging and disrespecting to the point he’s refusing to earn his paycheck out of spite?
Assuming all that to be true, doesn’t sound like the Bulls would be paying much of a price at all from their perspective. Assuming all that to be true, they evidently think Lauri is a paper bag in the wind.
I don't care if each and every Bulls FO member hates Lauri personally - losing a potential major young asset for nothing would be a disaster for a club like this. The way this season is going, I'm not holding my breath on cap space being any kind of game changer for the Bulls.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what thought process led to Markkanen suddenly being used like Kornet. As I said earlier, the benching was eyebrow-raising, but I was actually looking forward to Lauri having a big offensive role with the 2nd unit. As we now see, that apparently was never the intention. He's simply being marginalized and now spends his games standing in the corner.
I do not know what purpose all this serves. To me it looks like they don't have a plan.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
ZOMG wrote:Embarrassing Markkanen by benching and marginalizing him is turning out to be a really stupid move by the Bulls - another one in a long line of them.
Lauri now knows he's out the door and essentially has nothing to win by trying hard and risking injury. He knows that the teams interested in him don't give a F about what he does the rest of the season. They're not naive. They know the Bulls are a horrible team with a bad coach and that Lauri's situation is non-salvageable anyway after this. Markkanen has a clean track record as far as being coachable and not causing problems, which will come in handy now. His agent will spread the word that Markkanen is basically just waiting for the season to end while chilling in the corner - IF he even plays.
The Bulls have f**ed this up royally, starting from the moment they decided to play hardball with Lauri in the extension negotiations. A case study in how to waste an asset.
I disagree in that it does not matter how Markkanen plays for the rest of the season. For sure it does. This is his contract year.
Naturally the other teams understand his limited role now, but the per minute stats/efficiency are still very important, for the Bulls to get wins, and for Markkanen to get as good contract as possible.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
Robin Jones wrote:ZOMG wrote:Embarrassing Markkanen by benching and marginalizing him is turning out to be a really stupid move by the Bulls - another one in a long line of them.
Lauri now knows he's out the door and essentially has nothing to win by trying hard and risking injury. He knows that the teams interested in him don't give a F about what he does the rest of the season. They're not naive. They know the Bulls are a horrible team with a bad coach and that Lauri's situation is non-salvageable anyway after this. Markkanen has a clean track record as far as being coachable and not causing problems, which will come in handy now. His agent will spread the word that Markkanen is basically just waiting for the season to end while chilling in the corner - IF he even plays.
The Bulls have f**ed this up royally, starting from the moment they decided to play hardball with Lauri in the extension negotiations. A case study in how to waste an asset.
I disagree in that it does not matter how Markkanen plays for the rest of the season. For sure it does. This is his contract year.
Naturally the other teams understand his limited role now, but the per minute stats/efficiency are still very important, for the Bulls to get wins, and for Markkanen to get as good contract as possible.
We'll just have to disagree on this. Other teams know that Markkanen was having a very nice, super efficient season before covid, injuries and intra team politics entered the equation.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

This guy can't get here soon enough. If only to send Lauri supporters to whatever team he ends up signing with...
Damn I love Hip Hop!
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
Clocian wrote:
This guy can't get here soon enough. If only to send Lauri supporters to whatever team he ends up signing with...
Whenever this crap starts, you know you've won the argument.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
It is in the Bulls interest to pump up Lauri’s value so that they can move him in the off-season, which is probably why they tried starting him at the 3 two games back, like a bigger Gallinari. The problem is that Lauri is not as skilled as Gallo, nor as quick as he once was.
The notion that the Bulls are deliberately sabotaging Lauri is laughable - but there is a fit issue.
Vuc should be starting next to a defensive player who can stretch the court a bit but also command some attention inside - Theis, last year’s Thad, maybe Aminu. Lauri should be used like Portis is used by the Bucks - a bench scoring big, and this year’s Thad is probably his best pairing (though I would recommend sticking with pairings / two man subs). You can ride who is being most effective each game within that general framework.
Similarly, the other 3 positions are basically a primary guy and alternates. At the “1,” Sato primary and Denzel or Archi and maybe Troy Brown as offense / defense (sorta) reserves. At the 2, LaVine, then Coby or Green/Brown. At the 3, Pat then Brown/Green/maybe Aminu or Denzel, maybe even Sato (for role purposes). That would keep the lineup balanced.
Anyway, the problem isn’t the Bulls ... it’s that Lauri is the white Bobby Portis, minus the crazy (and less efficient this season), higher basketball IQ, lesser rebounding. But his fanboys can’t accept that he’s not as talented as they (and most of us) once thought he was.
It’s not everyone else’s fault, Lauri - it’s yours.
The notion that the Bulls are deliberately sabotaging Lauri is laughable - but there is a fit issue.
Vuc should be starting next to a defensive player who can stretch the court a bit but also command some attention inside - Theis, last year’s Thad, maybe Aminu. Lauri should be used like Portis is used by the Bucks - a bench scoring big, and this year’s Thad is probably his best pairing (though I would recommend sticking with pairings / two man subs). You can ride who is being most effective each game within that general framework.
Similarly, the other 3 positions are basically a primary guy and alternates. At the “1,” Sato primary and Denzel or Archi and maybe Troy Brown as offense / defense (sorta) reserves. At the 2, LaVine, then Coby or Green/Brown. At the 3, Pat then Brown/Green/maybe Aminu or Denzel, maybe even Sato (for role purposes). That would keep the lineup balanced.
Anyway, the problem isn’t the Bulls ... it’s that Lauri is the white Bobby Portis, minus the crazy (and less efficient this season), higher basketball IQ, lesser rebounding. But his fanboys can’t accept that he’s not as talented as they (and most of us) once thought he was.
It’s not everyone else’s fault, Lauri - it’s yours.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
ZOMG wrote:DuckIII wrote:Accepting your version as reality, pay what price? Losing a player they didn’t want to pay market value and are now intentionally sabotaging and disrespecting to the point he’s refusing to earn his paycheck out of spite?
Assuming all that to be true, doesn’t sound like the Bulls would be paying much of a price at all from their perspective. Assuming all that to be true, they evidently think Lauri is a paper bag in the wind.
I don't care if each and every Bulls FO member hates Lauri personally - losing a potential major young asset for nothing would be a disaster for a club like this. The way this season is going, I'm not holding my breath on cap space being any kind of game changer for the Bulls.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what thought process led to Markkanen suddenly being used like Kornet. As I said earlier, the benching was eyebrow-raising, but I was actually looking forward to Lauri having a big offensive role with the 2nd unit. As we now see, that apparently was never the intention. He's simply being marginalized and now spends his games standing in the corner.
I do not know what purpose all this serves. To me it looks like they don't have a plan.
They have a pretty clear plan. It’s just that the plan no longer includes Lauri.
The wisdom of the plan is subject to debate. But it’s obvious what that plan is at this point: win as much as you can as fast as you can to become attractive to other players.
The Bulls have concluded Lauri in a significant role is inconsistent with that plan.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
MGB8 wrote:It is in the Bulls interest to pump up Lauri’s value so that they can move him in the off-season, which is probably why they tried starting him at the 3 two games back, like a bigger Gallinari. The problem is that Lauri is not as skilled as Gallo, nor as quick as he once was.
The notion that the Bulls are deliberately sabotaging Lauri is laughable - but there is a fit issue.
Vuc should be starting next to a defensive player who can stretch the court a bit but also command some attention inside - Theis, last year’s Thad, maybe Aminu. Lauri should be used like Portis is used by the Bucks - a bench scoring big, and this year’s Thad is probably his best pairing (though I would recommend sticking with pairings / two man subs). You can ride who is being most effective each game within that general framework.
Similarly, the other 3 positions are basically a primary guy and alternates. At the “1,” Sato primary and Denzel or Archi and maybe Troy Brown as offense / defense (sorta) reserves. At the 2, LaVine, then Coby or Green/Brown. At the 3, Pat then Brown/Green/maybe Aminu or Denzel, maybe even Sato (for role purposes). That would keep the lineup balanced.
Anyway, the problem isn’t the Bulls ... it’s that Lauri is the white Bobby Portis, minus the crazy (and less efficient this season), higher basketball IQ, lesser rebounding. But his fanboys can’t accept that he’s not as talented as they (and most of us) once thought he was.
It’s not everyone else’s fault, Lauri - it’s yours.
A "fit issue" isn't a great reason to make Lauri stand in the corner with the 2nd unit while Denzel Valentine takes heat check 3's.
This is a guy who has gone from a hyper efficient 20ppg scorer to a total afterthought who's getting frozen out of the offense - with the SECOND unit. All within a few months. You can keep repeating "it's all his own fault" as much as you like if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't make it so.
Just like Vucevic, Lauri is a non ball handling big who, by definition, needs the players around him to get him the ball. There is nothing wrong with that. If the framework isn't there, you see the result - a guy has four offensive touches in a half.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
DuckIII wrote:ZOMG wrote:DuckIII wrote:Accepting your version as reality, pay what price? Losing a player they didn’t want to pay market value and are now intentionally sabotaging and disrespecting to the point he’s refusing to earn his paycheck out of spite?
Assuming all that to be true, doesn’t sound like the Bulls would be paying much of a price at all from their perspective. Assuming all that to be true, they evidently think Lauri is a paper bag in the wind.
I don't care if each and every Bulls FO member hates Lauri personally - losing a potential major young asset for nothing would be a disaster for a club like this. The way this season is going, I'm not holding my breath on cap space being any kind of game changer for the Bulls.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what thought process led to Markkanen suddenly being used like Kornet. As I said earlier, the benching was eyebrow-raising, but I was actually looking forward to Lauri having a big offensive role with the 2nd unit. As we now see, that apparently was never the intention. He's simply being marginalized and now spends his games standing in the corner.
I do not know what purpose all this serves. To me it looks like they don't have a plan.
They have a pretty clear plan. It’s just that the plan no longer includes Lauri.
The wisdom of the plan is subject to debate. But it’s obvious what that plan is at this point: win as much as you can as fast as you can to become attractive to other players.
The Bulls have concluded Lauri in a significant role is inconsistent with that plan.
As I've said before - yes, Lauri is very probably on his way out. But there's still a lot of season left. To marginalize him at this stage seems totally crazy. It's almost as if the Bulls have a surplus of 18ppg scorers available.
Why not try to get the most use out of him while we're trying to win? That's what I'm referring to with "no plan". What purpose does it serve that he's no longer involved in the offense at all? I'm sorry, but just giving more shots to Denzel Valentine is not the answer.
We can't stop losing. Lauri's demotion certainly hasn't helped this team in any way.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
ZOMG wrote:DuckIII wrote:ZOMG wrote:
I don't care if each and every Bulls FO member hates Lauri personally - losing a potential major young asset for nothing would be a disaster for a club like this. The way this season is going, I'm not holding my breath on cap space being any kind of game changer for the Bulls.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what thought process led to Markkanen suddenly being used like Kornet. As I said earlier, the benching was eyebrow-raising, but I was actually looking forward to Lauri having a big offensive role with the 2nd unit. As we now see, that apparently was never the intention. He's simply being marginalized and now spends his games standing in the corner.
I do not know what purpose all this serves. To me it looks like they don't have a plan.
They have a pretty clear plan. It’s just that the plan no longer includes Lauri.
The wisdom of the plan is subject to debate. But it’s obvious what that plan is at this point: win as much as you can as fast as you can to become attractive to other players.
The Bulls have concluded Lauri in a significant role is inconsistent with that plan.
As I've said before - yes, Lauri is very probably on his way out. But there's still a lot of season left. To marginalize him at this stage seems totally crazy. It's almost as if the Bulls have a surplus of 18ppg scorers available.
Why not try to get the most use out of him while we're trying to win? That's what I'm referring to with "no plan". What purpose does it serve that he's no longer involved in the offense at all? I'm sorry, but just giving more shots to Denzel Valentine is not the answer.
We can't stop losing. Lauri's demotion certainly hasn't helped this team in any way.
First of all, I think that Billy wanted (and maybe still wants) Lauri to work well next to Vuc. That said, in the very limited time they did play together, it didn't work great. I think Lauri's minute restriction is more about his lack of 3pt shooting of late, coupled with Billy wanting to figure out how Thad, who is more likely sticking around next season, fits best. Personally, I think they are both better off the bench. I would prefer to try Theis at PF.

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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
ZOMG wrote:Embarrassing Markkanen by benching and marginalizing him is turning out to be a really stupid move by the Bulls - another one in a long line of them.
Lauri now knows he's out the door and essentially has nothing to win by trying hard and risking injury. He knows that the teams interested in him don't give a F about what he does the rest of the season. They're not naive. They know the Bulls are a horrible team with a bad coach and that Lauri's situation is non-salvageable anyway after this. Markkanen has a clean track record as far as being coachable and not causing problems, which will come in handy now. His agent will spread the word that Markkanen is basically just waiting for the season to end while chilling in the corner - IF he even plays.
The Bulls have f**ed this up royally, starting from the moment they decided to play hardball with Lauri in the extension negotiations. A case study in how to waste an asset.
Markkanen isn’t good. Any team that waste $15 million or more on big that can’t play defense, pass, post up and is a very inconsistent shooter will regret it immediately. AK might the right move to signing him. If this is how he plays in a contract year I would dread how he performs after getting paid.
Pelicans don’t want Ball and would not trade him for Markkanen. That says it all about his worth.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
ZOMG wrote:MGB8 wrote:It is in the Bulls interest to pump up Lauri’s value so that they can move him in the off-season, which is probably why they tried starting him at the 3 two games back, like a bigger Gallinari. The problem is that Lauri is not as skilled as Gallo, nor as quick as he once was.
The notion that the Bulls are deliberately sabotaging Lauri is laughable - but there is a fit issue.
Vuc should be starting next to a defensive player who can stretch the court a bit but also command some attention inside - Theis, last year’s Thad, maybe Aminu. Lauri should be used like Portis is used by the Bucks - a bench scoring big, and this year’s Thad is probably his best pairing (though I would recommend sticking with pairings / two man subs). You can ride who is being most effective each game within that general framework.
Similarly, the other 3 positions are basically a primary guy and alternates. At the “1,” Sato primary and Denzel or Archi and maybe Troy Brown as offense / defense (sorta) reserves. At the 2, LaVine, then Coby or Green/Brown. At the 3, Pat then Brown/Green/maybe Aminu or Denzel, maybe even Sato (for role purposes). That would keep the lineup balanced.
Anyway, the problem isn’t the Bulls ... it’s that Lauri is the white Bobby Portis, minus the crazy (and less efficient this season), higher basketball IQ, lesser rebounding. But his fanboys can’t accept that he’s not as talented as they (and most of us) once thought he was.
It’s not everyone else’s fault, Lauri - it’s yours.
A "fit issue" isn't a great reason to make Lauri stand in the corner with the 2nd unit while Denzel Valentine takes heat check 3's.
This is a guy who has gone from a hyper efficient 20ppg scorer to a total afterthought who's getting frozen out of the offense - with the SECOND unit. All within a few months. You can keep repeating "it's all his own fault" as much as you like if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't make it so.
Just like Vucevic, Lauri is a non ball handling big who, by definition, needs the players around him to get him the ball. There is nothing wrong with that. If the framework isn't there, you see the result - a guy has four offensive touches in a half.
Lauri was hyper efficient for like 10 games and has sucked after his usual injury. If he can’t hit his wide open threes he is worthless.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
It's pretty comical how the Bulls' FO "can't develop players" when it comes to Lauri, but they managed to develop Zach LaVine into an All-Star.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
ZOMG wrote:DuckIII wrote:ZOMG wrote:
I don't care if each and every Bulls FO member hates Lauri personally - losing a potential major young asset for nothing would be a disaster for a club like this. The way this season is going, I'm not holding my breath on cap space being any kind of game changer for the Bulls.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what thought process led to Markkanen suddenly being used like Kornet. As I said earlier, the benching was eyebrow-raising, but I was actually looking forward to Lauri having a big offensive role with the 2nd unit. As we now see, that apparently was never the intention. He's simply being marginalized and now spends his games standing in the corner.
I do not know what purpose all this serves. To me it looks like they don't have a plan.
They have a pretty clear plan. It’s just that the plan no longer includes Lauri.
The wisdom of the plan is subject to debate. But it’s obvious what that plan is at this point: win as much as you can as fast as you can to become attractive to other players.
The Bulls have concluded Lauri in a significant role is inconsistent with that plan.
As I've said before - yes, Lauri is very probably on his way out. But there's still a lot of season left. To marginalize him at this stage seems totally crazy. It's almost as if the Bulls have a surplus of 18ppg scorers available.
Why not try to get the most use out of him while we're trying to win? That's what I'm referring to with "no plan". What purpose does it serve that he's no longer involved in the offense at all? I'm sorry, but just giving more shots to Denzel Valentine is not the answer.
We can't stop losing. Lauri's demotion certainly hasn't helped this team in any way.
Thad is better than Lauri so it has helped.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
CobyWhite0 wrote:It's pretty comical how the Bulls' FO "can't develop players" when it comes to Lauri, but they managed to develop Zach LaVine into an All-Star.
LaVine works 10 times harder than Lauri. That may be an exaggeration, but I have no doubt that Zach trains harder and wants it more than Lauri. No other explanation for why he is worse player now than he was two years ago. Literally no improvement at all in 4 years.
Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
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Re: Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread
DuckIII wrote:ZOMG wrote:DuckIII wrote:Accepting your version as reality, pay what price? Losing a player they didn’t want to pay market value and are now intentionally sabotaging and disrespecting to the point he’s refusing to earn his paycheck out of spite?
Assuming all that to be true, doesn’t sound like the Bulls would be paying much of a price at all from their perspective. Assuming all that to be true, they evidently think Lauri is a paper bag in the wind.
I don't care if each and every Bulls FO member hates Lauri personally - losing a potential major young asset for nothing would be a disaster for a club like this. The way this season is going, I'm not holding my breath on cap space being any kind of game changer for the Bulls.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what thought process led to Markkanen suddenly being used like Kornet. As I said earlier, the benching was eyebrow-raising, but I was actually looking forward to Lauri having a big offensive role with the 2nd unit. As we now see, that apparently was never the intention. He's simply being marginalized and now spends his games standing in the corner.
I do not know what purpose all this serves. To me it looks like they don't have a plan.
They have a pretty clear plan. It’s just that the plan no longer includes Lauri.
The wisdom of the plan is subject to debate. But it’s obvious what that plan is at this point: win as much as you can as fast as you can to become attractive to other players.
The Bulls have concluded Lauri in a significant role is inconsistent with that plan.
Do they really have a clear plan? Or are they maybe making this up as they go. Granted it has been only four games, but this plan hardly seems clear. I was very excited when the trades were made, but it now appears that the goal was only to replace Lauri and Carter with Vuc and Theis. I like what Vuc and Theis bring to the table, but that seems to be a bit of a sideways move. Troy Brown Jr. isn't even playing, nor is Javonte Green. Denzel Valentine appears to be a part of this plan, which I find odd. I don't see how any of this is a recipe for winning more games fast, especially with no days to practice.