Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Trm3]

Good, let him go to Cleveland..he'll do nothing against Taj, like we gotta worry about his post game..Oh no, he's going to shoot another 3

[Hardfoul]

any team with Lebron is great, that team will be able to space the floor and will create alot of problems for teams, but I agree with everyone that has said that team will be nowhere near the defensive team that Miami was. Also, Varejao is not exactly the picture of health and there is no depth at the 5 (he's averaged 50 gms/year in his career and he will be 32). Very good team, maybe best in the league, but doesn't exactly impart the same type of awe that the Lebron/Bosh/Wade did as a big three.

I really hope that one of Waiters or TT goes out in the trade with nothing other than Love coming back. Will create a one year window for sure.

[Chi]

We're still doing the Kevin Love thing here?


Any news on Dion Waiters?

[TheStig]

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

I really don't think its just talk. Flip doesn't want to couch a lottery team. And Wiggins isn't a generational talent. I think if the Cav's took Parker, this deal would have been done already. Parker, Waiters, Thompson would have gotten it done.

Well if you believe espn it looks like the deal is done already. It's just that the teams can't confirm it since it is not allowed to do so until the 30 days is up for Wiggins.

I haven't heard that. Who's sources said that?

[Ben]

Well.....thanks for your permission to sit back and play it safe. For a minute I thought I was going to be forced into saying something that I didn't quite believe based on the threat of bodily harm...or even worse....having to face the scorn of an anonymous person on a web forum who tells me I don't fit their own definition of a fan and that I may have run out of passion fruit smoothies or something like that.

You think your sarcastic detachment puts you in a lofty position. It doesn't. It just makes you obnoxious.

You may want to get a refund from whatever internet site you got your psychoanalysis degree from. I don't think that at all. But I do find it interesting that you think I do. (I got my degree from the same site...best $9.99 I ever spent!)

A lofty place based on my sarcastic detachment because I looked at the teams objectively? Obnoxious because I don't subscribe to YOUR defintion of a fan?

And do you not even see the irony in calling someone obnoxious when you where who stated that being a fan means spitting in their eye and telling them you are going to kick their ass? Or telling me I can "play it safe" when that phrase has no actual meaning. If I'm playing it safe, what are you doing? Living on the egde?
Unless you are actually one of the players, neither one of has ANY impact on the game played, nor are there ANY consequences to own actions or approaches (unless you are betting big money one the Bulls).

Please share how you don't play it safe.....what do you have at stake?

Let me just pop in here for a second--I'm logging in from a family vacation in Amsterdam-- just to say that you're both really good guys and this needn't be personal. I don't get what's at stake. Besides, I agree with cold fish that this was never a serious contest. Our name was being leveraged.

Besides, if the asking price had been Taj, Butler, AND McD, would you have do everything it? Not me. And I Love Love.

Peace.

[Jayme96]

People will arbitrarily decide that McDermott and Mirotic are worth more than Wiggins, but they would be wrong. Let's just hope that M&M bust out so well that people look back in hindsight and bash Minnesota for it.

McDermott, Mirotic, and Taj is a better package than Wiggins and Bennett. Wiggins is nowhere near Lebron, KD/Oden, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin's level, in terms of the #1 pick worthiness. He is much more of a project with high boom or bust potential. Most people seemed to rate Embid and Jabari ahead of him in this year's draft.

This is what I think too. Wiggins lacks the dribbling and lateral movement to be a stud offensively. He can slash and shoot a 3, and play D. Lots of guys can do that. He has a lot of developing to do before he'll be a stud you'd expect out of the #1 pick. Bennett sucks. Period. He just takes up cap space that could be used elsewhere.

McDermott is a safe bet to at least be a Kyle Korver type shooter, and should be a lot more. Mirotic could be a stretch 4 like Love, minus the rebounding and outless passing at elite levels. Gibson is a proven defensive stud at PF, and last year looked good on O too. Those 3, along with Rubio and Pekovich, give the Wolves a nice starting 5, with LaVine and Brewer off the bench. The Wiggins trade just gives them no PF, and nothing but a potential stud at SF in Wiggins (he would go nicely with Rubio and LaVine though, but their post situation would suck). I guess it depends on if you want to win now and take a gamble on multiple players, or bet everything on one guy turning into a superstar. It would be a tough call if you're the Wolves. To be honest I'd have to watch more Wiggins play before I could really say for sure what I'd do, but I'm leaning towards McDermott and Co., based on what I've already seen out of all involved. (I have seen him play, I've seen all of these guys play, although Mirotic it was just multiple videos on youtube of course)

[Jayme96]

I really don't think its just talk. Flip doesn't want to couch a lottery team. And Wiggins isn't a generational talent. I think if the Cav's took Parker, this deal would have been done already. Parker, Waiters, Thompson would have gotten it done.

Well if you believe espn it looks like the deal is done already. It's just that the teams can't confirm it since it is not allowed to do so until the 30 days is up for Wiggins.

I haven't heard that. Who's sources said that?

It's been reported all over the place. They can't talk about it, but people think it's just a waiting game now.

[johnnyvann840]

We're still doing the Kevin Love thing here?


Any news on Dion Waiters?

Kevin Love has already been traded, they just haven't announced it yet. Pretty obvious.

Now, I really hope Jimmy did tweak his groin a little and that is the real reason he's not with the Select Team. Because it seems like the other likely parts of a trade have all pulled out.

Conspiracy theory.. Love and Bennett are both being held out of Team USA activities because they have been traded and cannot sign for another few weeks. Likely part of the verbal agreements that they don't play and risk injury while in limbo.



Thaddeus Young/ Wiggins to Minnesota, Waiters/Bennett to Philly, Love to Cleveland. Something like that.

[bad knees]

Why are people arguing that our "package" is better than the Cavs'? Everyone not on this board agrees that we cannot beat a Wiggins package. This apparently includes the Twolves, who, according to ESPN, have stopped talking to anyone but the Cavs about the trade.

[Payt10]

People will arbitrarily decide that McDermott and Mirotic are worth more than Wiggins, but they would be wrong. Let's just hope that M&M bust out so well that people look back in hindsight and bash Minnesota for it.

McDermott, Mirotic, and Taj is a better package than Wiggins and Bennett. Wiggins is nowhere near Lebron, KD/Oden, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin's level, in terms of the #1 pick worthiness. He is much more of a project with high boom or bust potential. Most people seemed to rate Embid and Jabari ahead of him in this year's draft.

This is what I think too. Wiggins lacks the dribbling and lateral movement to be a stud offensively. He can slash and shoot a 3, and play D. Lots of guys can do that. He has a lot of developing to do before he'll be a stud you'd expect out of the #1 pick. Bennett sucks. Period. He just takes up cap space that could be used elsewhere.

McDermott is a safe bet to at least be a Kyle Korver type shooter, and should be a lot more. Mirotic could be a stretch 4 like Love, minus the rebounding and outless passing at elite levels. Gibson is a proven defensive stud at PF, and last year looked good on O too. Those 3, along with Rubio and Pekovich, give the Wolves a nice starting 5, with LaVine and Brewer off the bench. The Wiggins trade just gives them no PF, and nothing but a potential stud at SF in Wiggins (he would go nicely with Rubio and LaVine though, but their post situation would suck). I guess it depends on if you want to win now and take a gamble on multiple players, or bet everything on one guy turning into a superstar. It would be a tough call if you're the Wolves. To be honest I'd have to watch more Wiggins play before I could really say for sure what I'd do, but I'm leaning towards McDermott and Co., based on what I've already seen out of all involved. (I have seen him play, I've seen all of these guys play, although Mirotic it was just multiple videos on youtube of course)

If I were Minnesota, I'd rather be trying to tank like Philly for another year or two and take the Wiggins package, but all reports seem to indicate that they want to remain competitive, which is why the Bulls potential offer is the better offer, unless Cleveland adds Tristan Thompson.

[coldfish]

Fish, normally I would agree with you 100%. Normally when a team trades their star they rebuild. But this isn't the normal situation. The Wolves haven't made the playoffs in about 10 years. Their president is personally coming down to coach the team. They want to win and want to win bad. This is far a normal case where Wiggins has more value. Wiggins is a fine prospect but he isn't as NBA ready as Durant, Rose or Bron were. Taj is a seasoned all defense player. Mirotic has years of pro experience at 23. Dougie is NBA ready. To the wolves, that a package is better. Through a young guy like Butler into the mix and that's a massive return to flip.

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

I really don't think its just talk. Flip doesn't want to couch a lottery team. And Wiggins isn't a generational talent. I think if the Cav's took Parker, this deal would have been done already. Parker, Waiters, Thompson would have gotten it done.

I think that's a very Chicago view. If you go to the general boards, there have been threads comparing the trade offers and virtually all of the people from 3rd party teams favor the Wiggins deal.

This is just my opinion, but I think that Parker is the one who is going to be rather disappointing.

[jump]

You think your sarcastic detachment puts you in a lofty position. It doesn't. It just makes you obnoxious.

You may want to get a refund from whatever internet site you got your psychoanalysis degree from. I don't think that at all. But I do find it interesting that you think I do. (I got my degree from the same site...best $9.99 I ever spent!)

A lofty place based on my sarcastic detachment because I looked at the teams objectively? Obnoxious because I don't subscribe to YOUR defintion of a fan?

And do you not even see the irony in calling someone obnoxious when you where who stated that being a fan means spitting in their eye and telling them you are going to kick their ass? Or telling me I can "play it safe" when that phrase has no actual meaning. If I'm playing it safe, what are you doing? Living on the egde?
Unless you are actually one of the players, neither one of has ANY impact on the game played, nor are there ANY consequences to own actions or approaches (unless you are betting big money one the Bulls).

Please share how you don't play it safe.....what do you have at stake?

Let me just pop in here for a second--I'm logging in from a family vacation in Amsterdam-- just to say that you're both really good guys and this needn't be personal. I don't get what's at stake. Besides, I agree with cold fish that this was never a serious contest. Our name was being leveraged.

Besides, if the asking price had been Taj, Butler, AND McD, would you have do everything it? Not me. And I Love Love.

Peace.

Thanks for taking the time from your vacation. Your insight is well noted.

[panthermark]

Your hyperbolic sarcasm, with its self-impressed cleverness that you've been using throughout this thread to belittle those who don't have your (it seems you view it as) intellectual analysis - besides how longwinded they are - speak to someone who is afraid of something. If it's being disappointed by your team, you can relax a little. We all live with that. It's the nature of being a fan (derivative of "fanatic").

Ben has already chimed in, so I'll edit this last post a bit then call it a day on this stream of thought. He is right...no need to make it personal. And he sure as hell should not be bothering with this tuff while on vacation!


The thread is about Kevin Love...does he fit? Can the Bulls get him? At what cost? What if the Cavs get him? There has to be some type of "intellectual analysis" that goes into the discussion. And there has to be some sort of objective (versus subjective) data behind ones argument or it basically degrades into "He sucks!...No, he is awesome!" Objective data says he has more pro's than con's (and yes he does have a lot of cons). Not sure how that belittles anyone, unless the argument is basically "he sucks" and it isn't backed up by any objective data.


I'm a fan of the Bulls.

I don't spit in the other teams eye...even if we are the heavy favorites. That isn't my style (I don't even do the "easy win" posts in game threads...I usually say "just win baby"). As I've already stated, there is no differences in consequences regardless of the approach, because the reality is that there are no concequences at all.

I have no issues with a "circle the wagons" mentallity (that is how I felt in 2010, and when Rose didn't come back the first time), but I find that different than saying, "they suck, our rooks are studs, we are going to pound them, etc" when objectivly we are at a disadvanatage (and Vegas things the same).
----------
At this point it is looking like we are out of the Kevin Love game anyway.

[TheStig]

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

I really don't think its just talk. Flip doesn't want to couch a lottery team. And Wiggins isn't a generational talent. I think if the Cav's took Parker, this deal would have been done already. Parker, Waiters, Thompson would have gotten it done.

I don't think its a Chicago view at all. If I were a GM, I'd agree with what you said. Sign me up for Wiggins, Waiters and Thompson. But its Flip wants wins today and he is coaching today. I don't think he wants to wait around to develop Wiggins and Lose. The trade board isn't the President and Coach of the wolves. I'm much rather go the 76ers route than the Wolves route.

I think that's a very Chicago view. If you go to the general boards, there have been threads comparing the trade offers and virtually all of the people from 3rd party teams favor the Wiggins deal.

This is just my opinion, but I think that Parker is the one who is going to be rather disappointing.

[bull8boy]

I really hope Love goes to the Cavs. Wonder how much they will have to give up to get him. Cavs will probably get Brewer too if they have to give up 3-4 players and picks. Im sick of everyone pronouncing cavs as title contenders with a rookie coach, what was a disaster franchise and team last year that only added lebron while losing depth. Kyrie and Love never been in the playoffs before and the fact that people like to say we better hope Rose is healthy. Cavs better hope Love and Kyrie can stay healthy. They get hurt all the time too. Same with Anderson Varajao.

[D_GoLow]

McDermott, Mirotic, and Taj is a better package than Wiggins and Bennett. Wiggins is nowhere near Lebron, KD/Oden, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin's level, in terms of the #1 pick worthiness. He is much more of a project with high boom or bust potential. Most people seemed to rate Embid and Jabari ahead of him in this year's draft.

This is what I think too. Wiggins lacks the dribbling and lateral movement to be a stud offensively. He can slash and shoot a 3, and play D. Lots of guys can do that. He has a lot of developing to do before he'll be a stud you'd expect out of the #1 pick. Bennett sucks. Period. He just takes up cap space that could be used elsewhere.

McDermott is a safe bet to at least be a Kyle Korver type shooter, and should be a lot more. Mirotic could be a stretch 4 like Love, minus the rebounding and outless passing at elite levels. Gibson is a proven defensive stud at PF, and last year looked good on O too. Those 3, along with Rubio and Pekovich, give the Wolves a nice starting 5, with LaVine and Brewer off the bench. The Wiggins trade just gives them no PF, and nothing but a potential stud at SF in Wiggins (he would go nicely with Rubio and LaVine though, but their post situation would suck). I guess it depends on if you want to win now and take a gamble on multiple players, or bet everything on one guy turning into a superstar. It would be a tough call if you're the Wolves. To be honest I'd have to watch more Wiggins play before I could really say for sure what I'd do, but I'm leaning towards McDermott and Co., based on what I've already seen out of all involved. (I have seen him play, I've seen all of these guys play, although Mirotic it was just multiple videos on youtube of course)

If I were Minnesota, I'd rather be trying to tank like Philly for another year or two and take the Wiggins package, but all reports seem to indicate that they want to remain competitive, which is why the Bulls potential offer is the better offer, unless Cleveland adds Tristan Thompson.

Give it up, Chicago doesn't have an offer on the table.

Any offer with Wiggins is a better offer than the Bulls.

Love is not coming, move on w/ who we got.

[D_GoLow]

Love to Cleveland should not be a surprise to us since it was pretty much a certainty after Lebron announced he was coming home.

[rtblues]

Screw both of them....
Love doesn't play any D or fit on the Bulls; and Wiggins is Harold Miner 2.0

Like the Melo deal, sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make...
I didn't like the offer with Taj, McD, Niko, and Pick(s); that's just giving up too much.

If you could just go ahead and lock this thread now, that would be great, thanks.

[logical_art]

Fish, normally I would agree with you 100%. Normally when a team trades their star they rebuild. But this isn't the normal situation. The Wolves haven't made the playoffs in about 10 years. Their president is personally coming down to coach the team. They want to win and want to win bad. This is far a normal case where Wiggins has more value. Wiggins is a fine prospect but he isn't as NBA ready as Durant, Rose or Bron were. Taj is a seasoned all defense player. Mirotic has years of pro experience at 23. Dougie is NBA ready. To the wolves, that a package is better. Through a young guy like Butler into the mix and that's a massive return to flip.

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

Last year's evaluation of Wiggins doesn't matter though. In high school, Mayo was regarded as a mini-LeBron. College sorted that out pretty quickly.

Wiggins is incredibly overrated. He's a generational athlete with very. very ordinary everything else. All the great wings were far more skilled at his age then he is.

[ATRAIN53]

Love is on the table, that is a definate fact.

We have the assets to make a trade with them. But we won't offer some of those guys so we will loose out on an All Star who could end up in our own division. Maybe CLE and MN have something worked out but until it's official we should still be in pursuit.

The only player we should not include in the trade is the only guy we can't trade - Rose.

Other than that the Bulls should be willing to offer anyone else MN wants. Noah, Taj, Butler, McDermott, Mirotec - anyone. We could blow them away with a deal. But we're not and this is a another long term gamble by the Bulls FO thinking they can win with Rose and the rest of this cast.

McDermott is already a fan fav, tickets are sold and we'll be tops in attendance and turn a profit. Thats a success for the orginization and what Garpax are paid to do. They don't need Love to have a successful season.

And it will be a fun season.

But it will end with SA or CLE or maybe OKC hoisting the trophy and Bulls fans sitting at home wondering why we didn't trade for Love when we had the chance. LOVE is better than any player on this roster. He's a 25 yr old stud that you should blow up your roster to pair with the 25 yer old guy the Bulls have already hitched their wagon to - Rose.

This has shades of the Cartwright for Oakley trade. That was not popular but it was bold and took a a couple of years to see why they made it.

We should be doing the same here. This is it, once he gets moved he's not going to be on the market for a few years.

If you want him, now is the time.

The Bulls don't want him badly enough.