2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably)

[MrSparkle]

This top-10 is just gonna be a lot of busts imo.

We’ve seen guys like Doug McD struggle adapting to the further 3P line. Not sure why a LaMelo Ball and Deni are expected to smoothly develop a good NBA 3P. It’s a complete long-shot.

Also, I’m not entirely sure why LaMelo is considered to be a better prospect than Lonzo. Lonzo was highly regarded coming out of a strong UCLA program with a more mature demeanor, and he’s been a flat NBA player.

[TheSuzerain]

Doug's an elite shooter. That's not his problem in the NBA.

Lamelo and Deni both project as far worse shooters than Dougie.

[Andi Obst]

Deni Avdija
Anthony Edwards
Onyeka Okongwu
Killian Hayes
James Wiseman
Tyrese Haliburton
Obi Toppin
RJ Hampton
Isaac Okoro
Devin Vassell

I see an argument for Hayes, Edwards and maybe Okongwu if you want to pick that type of player that high (I wouldn't), but the rest is at least a tier below Melo for me. Especially a guy like Hampton, who was a significantly worse player in the same league and is basically a fast and athletic guard with an under-developed skillset right now, makes no sense for me. But I'm done defending Melo here, I don't even like him enough to do this and we probably won't be in position to draft him anyway.

[TheFinishSniper]

I am still Edwards. Last time I posted who my guy is was maybe around November on this board. And nothing changed since then. He is nothing special like sure superstar but he is checks all boxes of #1 in weakest class since 2000.

[MGB8]

Devin Vassell is a ridiculously good team defender. I’m honestly kinda blown away by how good he is.

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I'm still aboard the Vassell train at #7 or later. And not just because of the high bball IQ, solid size, and demonstrated shooting ability and efficiency. I think he has more upside than a lot of folks give him credit for. I like him more as a prospect than I did Mikal Bridges (in part because of his younger age at draft time) or Jarrett Culver (Culver had demonstrated more "alpha" in college, but Vassell's high level shooting while also being the best player on a very good NCAA team....).

[MikeDC]

How many guys who are good passers that cant shoot or defend, would you want as your lead PG? I mean Kris Dunn is a decent passer, a good defender and cant shoot and he probably isn't worth his 7 million qualifying offer.

Go look up Dunn’s assists and turnovers per 36, and also calculate his A/To ratio as a college freshmen.

Then go calculate the same numbers for LaMelo Ball playing at the same age against grown men in a pro league.

The difference is not a small one.

[Jcool0]

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[Jcool0]

How many guys who are good passers that cant shoot or defend, would you want as your lead PG? I mean Kris Dunn is a decent passer, a good defender and cant shoot and he probably isn't worth his 7 million qualifying offer.

Go look up Dunn’s assists and turnovers per 36, and also calculate his A/To ratio as a college freshmen.

Then go calculate the same numbers for LaMelo Ball playing at the same age against grown men in a pro league.

The difference is not a small one.

Ball is a better passer then Dunn. Hence why i said Ball was a good passer and Dunn was a decent one. The point was Dunn as a decent passer and good defender probably isn't worth 7 million. You want to take someone in the top 5 who really only has one skill going for him? The closest player i could compare him to is Ricky Rubio. But at lest he can play defense and isn't going to take a bunch of bad shots. I mean i get it a 6'8" PG could be a match up nightmare, but i see more a 12 & 8 guy not a 20 & 10 guy.

[MrSparkle]

Watch on YouTube

NBA superstar! Kidd 2.0 with a step-back 3P!

Wait , what went wrong?

3 things:

1. Doesn't matter if you're 6'6, a 190 lb. frame is no good in the NBA at that height. You give up quickness and still don't have the weight to play wings or attack the rim. Ask MCW and Livingston how dominant their careers were. It's extremely rare for a 6'6+ player to have the burst of a smaller guard like Rose, Kemba, Kyrie, etc. You compensate that lack of burst with muscle and weight to become unstoppable, in the 215-240 lb. weight class. Dinwiddie for example weighs 215.

2. High-usage shooting with funky form don't translate to the NBA. Elite shooting form and skill do (Trae, Curry, Klay, Redick). In the NBA, you don't get the keys unless you can prove to be an efficient scorer, and you don't get to chuck 3Ps to shake the rust off unless you play for the Boylen Bulls (who lose).

3. Very low FT rate at UCLA. Low FT%. Translated right to the NBA - he averages 48% on 1.2 FTAs for his career. That right there is like... a death spell, IMO, for any guard with dreams of the all-star games. You better have some incredible secret scoring weapon to compensate for 0.6 pts added at the line per game. All-stars get to the rim at least 5 times a game - 5 free baskets, unless they're ace 3P snipers. FWIW, Trae gets 8.0/9.3 FT per game. Curry has a career rate of 3.7/4, but of course is arguably the best 3P shooter of all-time, so makes up for that low rate.

So LaMelo shot 25% on 6.7 3PAs in the Australian league. Drew 3.9 FTAs and shot 72%. Weighs 181 lb. Averaged a 6.8/2.5 AS/TO ratio. Shot 37.5% overall from the field.

Am I missing something? Why is Lonzo Ball not the perfect example of why LaMelo will not be an NBA superstar? LaMelo is a bit flashier passer in his highlight reel, but he plays in the ABL which is very different than UCLA, lost a ton of games with a green light, and averaged terrible stats.

Different but similar issues with Deni (namely FT% and defensive ceiling). Don't get me wrong, I see the talent, but no way I trade up, and in fact, I consider trading down if we win a top-3 pick.

[PaKii94]

Watch on YouTube

NBA superstar! Kidd 2.0 with a step-back 3P!

Wait , what went wrong?

3 things:

1. Doesn't matter if you're 6'6, a 190 lb. frame is no good in the NBA at that height. You give up quickness and still don't have the weight to play wings or attack the rim. Ask MCW and Livingston how dominant their careers were. It's extremely rare for a 6'6+ player to have the burst of a smaller guard like Rose, Kemba, Kyrie, etc. You compensate that lack of burst with muscle and weight to become unstoppable, in the 215-240 lb. weight class. Dinwiddie for example weighs 215.

2. High-usage shooting with funky form don't translate to the NBA. Elite shooting form and skill do (Trae, Curry, Klay, Redick). In the NBA, you don't get the keys unless you can prove to be an efficient scorer, and you don't get to chuck 3Ps to shake the rust off unless you play for the Boylen Bulls (who lose).

3. Very low FT rate at UCLA. Low FT%. Translated right to the NBA - he averages 48% on 1.2 FTAs for his career. That right there is like... a death spell, IMO, for any guard with dreams of the all-star games. You better have some incredible secret scoring weapon to compensate for 0.6 pts added at the line per game. All-stars get to the rim at least 5 times a game - 5 free baskets, unless they're ace 3P snipers. FWIW, Trae gets 8.0/9.3 FT per game. Curry has a career rate of 3.7/4, but of course is arguably the best shooter of all-time.

So LaMelo shot 25% on 6.7 3PAs in the Australian league. Drew 3.9 FTAs and shot 72%. Weighs 181 lb. Averaged a 6.8/2.5 AS/TO ratio. Shot 37.5% overall from the field.

Am I missing something? Why is Lonzo Ball not the perfect example of why LaMelo will not be an NBA superstar? LaMelo is a bit flashier passer in his highlight reel, but he plays in the ABL which is very different than UCLA, lost a ton of games with a green light, and averaged terrible stats.

Different but similar issues with Deni (namely FT% and defensive ceiling). Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with either if we get them in the draft, but I don't think you can build a winner around either. It'd be a small hope tread-mill still, IMO. No way I trade up, and in fact, I consider trading down if we win a top-3 pick.

All of this. Also lamelo doesn't have defense going for him like lonzo did
I also don't want another prospect that needs to learn shot selection. We already have that with Zach and he's in his 6th year

[Repeat 3-peat]

I believe a good amount of people agree that this draft isn't strong in terms of franchise players. There are prospects with impressive/intriguing strengths but come with questionable flaws that could hurt their chances of being legit starters. LaMelo is a prime example. He has elite passing skills for his age, impressive quickness and handle that could give defenders issues but his lack of shooting, finishing around the rim(in traffic) and lack of defense are red flags in today's NBA. I would still draft him #1 overall due to his strengths and hope he improves as a shooter, like his brother.


I'm still a fan of Okoro. Yes his overall jumper needs a lot of work but he's a very good athlete that has shown the abilty to handle the ball and even be a playmaker at times. Strong finisher at the rim and can get to the FT line(good trait to have). I see the Jimmy Butler comparison like others but I also see Iggy and some Draymond Green in Okoro as they're both forwards who can handle the ball and defend multiple positions, though Okoro is lacking in length(reported to have a 6'8" wingspan) like those two players. Tough minded player who can defend 1-4, he's made to be a Bull.

[MrSparkle]

I believe a good amount of people agree that this draft isn't strong in terms of franchise players. There are prospects with impressive/intriguing strengths but come with questionable flaws that could hurt their chances of being legit starters. LaMelo is a prime example. He has elite passing skills for his age, impressive quickness and handle that could give defenders issues but his lack of shooting, finishing around the rim(in traffic) and lack of defense are red flags in today's NBA. I would still draft him #1 overall due to his strengths and hope he improves as a shooter, like his brother.


I'm still a fan of Okoro. Yes his overall jumper needs a lot of work but he's a very good athlete that has shown the abilty to handle the ball and even be a playmaker at times. Strong finisher at the rim and can get to the FT line(good trait to have). I see the Jimmy Butler comparison like others but I also see Iggy and some Draymond Green in Okoro as they're both forwards who can handle the ball and defend multiple positions, though Okoro is lacking in length(reported to have a 6'8" wingspan) like those two players. Tough minded player who can defend 1-4, he's made to be a Bull.

I think Anthony Edwards is the Oladipo of this Anthony Bennett-ish draft. I'd probably take him at #1 and figure Zach out later.

Okoro looks like Aminu meets Jae Crowder.

Vassell looks like he could go Mikal or poor man's Paul George.

I also think 2nd rd Tillman kinda looks like he might be better than Wendell Carter.

[Repeat 3-peat]

I believe a good amount of people agree that this draft isn't strong in terms of franchise players. There are prospects with impressive/intriguing strengths but come with questionable flaws that could hurt their chances of being legit starters. LaMelo is a prime example. He has elite passing skills for his age, impressive quickness and handle that could give defenders issues but his lack of shooting, finishing around the rim(in traffic) and lack of defense are red flags in today's NBA. I would still draft him #1 overall due to his strengths and hope he improves as a shooter, like his brother.


I'm still a fan of Okoro. Yes his overall jumper needs a lot of work but he's a very good athlete that has shown the abilty to handle the ball and even be a playmaker at times. Strong finisher at the rim and can get to the FT line(good trait to have). I see the Jimmy Butler comparison like others but I also see Iggy and some Draymond Green in Okoro as they're both forwards who can handle the ball and defend multiple positions, though Okoro is lacking in length(reported to have a 6'8" wingspan) like those two players. Tough minded player who can defend 1-4, he's made to be a Bull.

I think Anthony Edwards is the Oladipo of this Anthony Bennett-ish draft. I'd probably take him at #1 and figure Zach out later.

Okoro looks like Aminu meets Jae Crowder.

Vassell looks like he could go Mikal or poor man's Paul George.

I also think 2nd rd Tillman kinda looks like he might be better than Wendell Carter.

I'm a fan of Vassell also. I'm overly bias towards any wing defender, so I'm on board with him being a Bull.

Agreed with you on Tillman in round 2. Can't go wrong with players from MSU.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Wiggins + 2020 Top 3 Pick for Otto Porter Jr. + Tomáš Satoranský?

[Andi Obst]

I also think 2nd rd Tillman kinda looks like he might be better than Wendell Carter.

Agree that Tillman is a really good prospect, definitely top 30 for me, but it seems like he's seriously considering going back to MSU for his senior year.

[Repeat 3-peat]

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[sco]

Wiggins + 2020 Top 3 Pick for Otto Porter Jr. + Tomáš Satoranský?

If the top 3 is missing the word "protected" - no thanks. That contract is an anchor.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Wiggins + 2020 Top 3 Pick for Otto Porter Jr. + Tomáš Satoranský?

If the top 3 is missing the word "protected" - no thanks. That contract is an anchor.

Oh yeah, it’d be protected. The contract of Wiggins won’t look good, but I’d say he’d be more durable than Porter.

[MrSparkle]

Wiggins + 2020 Top 3 Pick for Otto Porter Jr. + Tomáš Satoranský?

If the top 3 is missing the word "protected" - no thanks. That contract is an anchor.

Oh yeah, it’d be protected. The contract of Wiggins won’t look good, but I’d say he’d be more durable than Porter.

Hmm. I’d say it depends on the draft. If Obi or Haliburton are the pick then no...

The FA market is gonna be cheap. I wonder if players sign short-term to re-up sooner or if they secure a guarantee with the uncertainty.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

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They cut a highlight reel of steals and blocks for a guy who averaged less than one of each.

I want to like Okoro, but the lack of defensive playmaking scares me. It's a length issue, I think. There aren't many guys who thrive defensively at the wing with his measurables.