2018 Draft Thread #6

[RememberLu]

I won't be angry if the Bulls take Trae, just disappointed. I'm not a believer in his game translating to the NBA. But I know better than to take strong stances one way or the other on draft picks. You always end up looking foolish.

[BigUps]

Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?

I'd take Young over Bridges at 6-8 anyhow. I know the fit isn't perfect, but IMO he's easily the better player and prospect. Figure out the fit later, but never pass up a potential star.

[IcemanGervin]

Trea's potential floor is probably a Bridges ceiling so passing over that would be foolish.

[realEAST]

Latest ESPN: http://insider2text.xyz/articles/5d8c9fd36ac1e824

They have Holiday going earlier than a lot of other sites. I'm kind of hoping he falls to us with the Pels pick.

Really caught an eye before getting eliminated, and he is interesting prospect, but don't think he'll be plus defender at NBA level being just 6'0 despite his wingspan, and isn't looking like starter level playmaker, with 6:4 AS:TO rating.
I see him more of a 6th man type player, or combo guard backup, although if he became more consistent and secure with the ball in his hands, he could become decent starter, given his effort on D (and being PG means playing at position where bad D is least felt), along the rest of his off. game.

As for our Pels pick, I hope we go with guard/wing, there should be some available and there are interesting guys of various types in our range: 3&D like Frazier, Kyre Thomas or more overall oriented like Hutchinson, T. or B. Brown, or interesting guard prospects like Holiday, Simmons; and upsidr guys like Meltob, Diop...
There might be a big whi fell down even.

Just realized, ESPN dropped Duvall and Diallo in mid 2nd round. Could be a deep draft too after all.

[TheSuzerain]

Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?

I'd take Young over Bridges at 6-8 anyhow. I know the fit isn't perfect, but IMO he's easily the better player and prospect. Figure out the fit later, but never pass up a potential star.

I mean the fit is perfect. He's great with Lauri which is our only asset that matters.

[BigUps]

Here's an interesting hypothetical - say Trae Young falls to the 10-12 range, and say our Pelicans pick is in the 14-18 range. Let's say 18 for the sake of the example. Would you trade Portis to move up and take Young?

I'd take Young over Bridges at 6-8 anyhow. I know the fit isn't perfect, but IMO he's easily the better player and prospect. Figure out the fit later, but never pass up a potential star.

I mean the fit is perfect. He's great with Lauri which is our only asset that matters.

If it were only that simple. But, yes, I get what you're saying and agree to a large extent. I just don't let "fit" get in the way of drafting BPA.

[BigUps]

Trae Young will be tough to guard with the extra space in the NBA. Thats what I really like about his game.

[TimHonks]

Trae is playing pretty well and I still don't want him at all. He takes horrible shots, turns the ball over a ton, and will be a bad defensive player. I'd consider him at 8 or 9 if we didn't bring back Lavine, but we are going to. No thanks to a Young/Lavine back-court.

[RememberLu]

Trae is playing pretty well and I still don't want him at all. He takes horrible shots, turns the ball over a ton, and will be a bad defensive player. I'd consider him at 8 or 9 if we didn't bring back Lavine, but we are going to. No thanks to a Young/Lavine back-court.

You stole my post. Get out of my mind

[realEAST]

If we are looking to Draft at #8 or #9, my list of preferences would be as follows:

1) Young - highest upside, and potential to impact game beyond numbers; awful defender, but at PG I can live with it if he brings it on offense as he has shown he is capable. His game won't translate completely (i.e. long 3s), but that is even for the better - he should improve as floor general, and with better teammates as well as bigger court should open game slightly more for him. I think he is fast enough to go past guard, has great handle and can finish with floaters on very high level, so he should present constant threat on off. At this point LaVine or Dunn wouldn't factor in my decision regarding him.

2) Miles Bridges - I know some are pretty low on him, but I think he can improve his overall skill level significantly, especially given his character, as well as some improvements he made so far (he went from finishing predominantly around the rim last year and having occasionally good shooting game, to having multiple 5+ assist games, as well as consistently shooting on high level) and could be pleasant surprise. He is strictly SF, but I think he has great athleticism and strength and good measurements for position. I am not sold on LaVine and Dunn, so even if we are bad in future or have chance to add another good wing or guard, I wouldn't hesitate.

3) W. Carter - Young , productive, good all around, and decent fit, could be long term solution at C. Not spectacular, but good. Being able to stretch the floor in time, while protecting the rim might prove to be more impact in game than on first sight. No star upside most likely, though.

4) Mikal Bridges - he has makings of pretty good 3&D wing. Don't think he'd be able to guard bigger combo forwards, he simply lacks strength, despite big wingspan. He is elite role player as 3&D wing, but not being sold on rest of the squad, and especially our guards, think we'd lock us as pretty low ceiling, mediocre team

[BigUps]

Trae is playing pretty well and I still don't want him at all. He takes horrible shots, turns the ball over a ton, and will be a bad defensive player. I'd consider him at 8 or 9 if we didn't bring back Lavine, but we are going to. No thanks to a Young/Lavine back-court.

You stole my post. Get out of my mind

You're both basically saying he has no room for improvement. All of those things are "fixable". Its easier to coach those skills up than teach his handles, vision and shot creation.

He'd be a damn fine prospect for us to go after. My only concern with drafting him is how annoying Stacey will be about having a Sooner on the team.

[Axolotl]

Trae is playing pretty well and I still don't want him at all. He takes horrible shots, turns the ball over a ton, and will be a bad defensive player. I'd consider him at 8 or 9 if we didn't bring back Lavine, but we are going to. No thanks to a Young/Lavine back-court.

Young is indeed a bad fit for our current roster, but we are not in a position where we'd have the luxury to draft for fit. We need a star, and it looks like the only one who has ceiling that high at our pick range is Young.

Now, that said, I'm not completely sold on him either. I'm still trying to figure out how much of his current game will be with him in the NBA. I'm still juggling with Mikal B., Carter and Young, but today their order is Young, Carter, Mikal.

[TimHonks]

Trae is playing pretty well and I still don't want him at all. He takes horrible shots, turns the ball over a ton, and will be a bad defensive player. I'd consider him at 8 or 9 if we didn't bring back Lavine, but we are going to. No thanks to a Young/Lavine back-court.

You stole my post. Get out of my mind

You're both basically saying he has no room for improvement. All of those things are "fixable". Its easier to coach those skills up than teach his handles, vision and shot creation.

He'd be a damn fine prospect for us to go after. My only concern with drafting him is how annoying Stacey will be about having a Sooner on the team.

That can said about most prospect criticisms. I don't know your personal views, but would you say the same for someone that doesn't think Bamba or Mikal will be good on offense? Someone that doesn't think Bagley will be a rim protector our outside shooter? Ayton doesn't play hard enough? You get the point.

I think we just both see him as the type of guy that puts up good numbers in losing situations. He is a damn good shooter which makes him intriguing, I just don't see him as a winning NBA player.

[BigUps]

You stole my post. Get out of my mind

You're both basically saying he has no room for improvement. All of those things are "fixable". Its easier to coach those skills up than teach his handles, vision and shot creation.

He'd be a damn fine prospect for us to go after. My only concern with drafting him is how annoying Stacey will be about having a Sooner on the team.

That can said about most prospect criticisms. I don't know your personal views, but would you say the same for someone that doesn't think Bamba or Mikal will be good on offense? Someone that doesn't think Bagley will be a rim protector our outside shooter? Ayton doesn't play hard enough? You get the point.

I think we just both see him as the type of guy that puts up good numbers in losing situations. He is a damn good shooter which makes him intriguing, I just don't see him as a winning NBA player.

All of these prospects have gaps in their games. Its what makes drafting really hard. Its why character is really important.

For me, I think Young plays the style of basketball that excels in todays NBA. I think he's the top prospect right now for where we draft at. I don't think GarPax draft him though because of Dunn/Payne.

[BigUps]

BTW, I love talking draft. I learn a lot from these debates.

[IcemanGervin]

I fully believe defense is dead in the NBA. I put no stock into it.

[kodo]

What is the infatuation with Carter from the experts? I don't see him better than a lot of others in the top 10-14. But he is constantly around 7-10. Am I missing something? He looks at best to be a rotation player, but maybe that's what people are hoping for at bare minimum?

I don't think anyone has him going top 7, but he's solidly been there in the tier below.

Our last few championship key big men were Draymond Green & Kevin Love. And before them there was Dirk. These guys all
- can shoot the crap out of the 3 ball
- are high IQ players, not athleticism players
- rebound well
- pass well
- execute team basketball well (set screens, position, timing, move the ball)

Big who are not close to helping teams win championships: Deandre Jordan, Blake Griffin, Hassan Whiteside, Dwight Howard. Athletic dunkers who can't shoot.

If you distill down want you need from an NBA big man prospect into
- 3P shooting
- Rebounding
- Defense
- Youth
Carter provides probably the best combination of all 4.

3P Shooting:
1. Carter (46%)
2. Jackson (39%)
3. Bagley (37%)
4. Ayton (36%)
5. Bamba (28%)

Rebounding:
1. Ayton 21%
2. Bamba 20%
3. (tied) Bagley 18%
3 .(tied) Carter 18%
5. Jackson 14%

Defense:
1. Jackson 85 defensive rating
2. Bamba 89
3. Carter 92
4. Bagley 96
5. Ayton 97

It's also going to be taken into account that Carter, as well as Jackson, are still 18. The other bigs are all 19, and Bamba will be 20 in May.

It's also been mentioned that Carter & Jackson aren't being featured in their offense due to other players. Carter's usage is only 22% vs Bagley's 27% or Ayton's 25%. I think it's assumed his impressive #s would be even higher if Bagley didn't re-classify last minute.

That all being said, Carter will still probably only get picked after Ayton, Bamba, Jackson, & Bagley are gone.

[TheSuzerain]

What is the infatuation with Carter from the experts? I don't see him better than a lot of others in the top 10-14. But he is constantly around 7-10. Am I missing something? He looks at best to be a rotation player, but maybe that's what people are hoping for at bare minimum?

I don't think anyone has him going top 7, but he's solidly been there in the tier below.

Our last few championship key big men were Draymond Green & Kevin Love. And before them there was Dirk. These guys all
- can shoot the crap out of the 3 ball
- are high IQ players, not athleticism players
- rebound well
- pass well
- execute team basketball well (set screens, position, timing, move the ball)

Big who are not close to helping teams win championships: Deandre Jordan, Blake Griffin, Hassan Whiteside, Dwight Howard. Athletic dunkers who can't shoot.

If you distill down want you need from an NBA big man prospect into
- 3P shooting
- Rebounding
- Defense
- Youth
Carter provides probably the best combination of all 4.

3P Shooting:
1. Carter (46%)
2. Jackson (39%)
3. Bagley (37%)
4. Ayton (36%)
5. Bamba (28%)

Rebounding:
1. Ayton 21%
2. Bamba 20%
3. (tied) Bagley 18%
3 .(tied) Carter 18%
5. Jackson 14%

Defense:
1. Jackson 85 defensive rating
2. Bamba 89
3. Carter 92
4. Bagley 96
5. Ayton 97

It's also going to be taken into account that Carter, as well as Jackson, are still 18. The other bigs are all 19, and Bamba will be 20 in May.

That all being said, Carter will still probably only get picked after Ayton, Bamba, Jackson, & Bagley are gone.

We already have Lauri to do most of that. Why would we invest so much in bigs?

[IcemanGervin]

Trea young has effortless offense and it won't be as erratic or out of control with NBA space and professional players around him. Give me that all day. I don't even care if he gives it right back on defense. That's all the league is anyway.

[kodo]

We already have Lauri to do most of that. Why would we invest so much in bigs?

We wouldn't...the OP was asking why other experts like Wendell.

I'd be surprised if we drafted Carter over Mikal or Porter or a wing/guard in general.