Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

[OnlyTheOneAndOnly]

Why are the mccaskeys wasting time with Nagy and Pace at this point? Nagy has already lost the locker room. Get a head start on the next GM search.

according to nfl interview rules, bears will need to wait until the end of the season to start their GM search. if nagy is fired during the season, that pretty much means they're letting pace stay.

so letting them ride out this season until the end is actually a good indicator that they're both gone...

[Dresden]

Glad Matt Nagy is calling plays for Andy Dalton today and they can fall miserably.

Andi Dalton sucks.

not really sure what the point is of rooting for andy dalton to fail at this point. to show that fields should have been starter all along? well, even after today dalton's still been more effective that fields this season. and he wasn't nearly as bad as the numbers would suggest today. only that last INT was a bad decision

Because the most stubborn man on earth is going to get fired for this decision, and it was a painfully obvious from the jump that it was a road to nowhere.

He's not going to ever play for us again, this game was meaningless, Nagy is getting fired but to see him with the playsheet once again was pretty hilarious. Dalton will get another contract next year, none of it means anything so why not at least laugh at it?

Kmet had another decent game, Montgomery and Herbert look like a good combo, the defense played well despite ridiculous field position because of Dalton's 4 INTs.

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Not a single pass over 20 yards and 4 INTs.

I don't think it was "painfully obvious from the start" at all.

Of Dalton's 4 picks, 3 of them were either off receiver's hands, or tipped at line of scrimmage. Only that last one was completely on Dalton.

One bright spot is this receiver Grant, who has been our kick returner. They are starting to throw to him a bit now, and he was the leading receiver yesterday, and had a good game before this one, too. I really like his speed and quickness. Seems like an excellent slot receiver, and possibly a #2 behind Mooney.

[fleet]

and who hired matt nagy, also out of curiosity

As Patrick Mannely was saying today, no way around 1 winning season after 7 years. no playoffs wins, no coach, just began like yesterday prioritizing the O-Line. It is inescapable. Soft shoe around it all we want. Of course he’s going to get promoted. This is Chicago Bears football.

[dice]

Glad Matt Nagy is calling plays for Andy Dalton today and they can fall miserably.

Andi Dalton sucks.

not really sure what the point is of rooting for andy dalton to fail at this point. to show that fields should have been starter all along? well, even after today dalton's still been more effective that fields this season. and he wasn't nearly as bad as the numbers would suggest today. only that last INT was a bad decision

Because the most stubborn man on earth is going to get fired for this decision, and it was a painfully obvious from the jump that it was a road to nowhere.

He's not going to ever play for us again, this game was meaningless, Nagy is getting fired but to see him with the playsheet once again was pretty hilarious. Dalton will get another contract next year, none of it means anything so why not at least laugh at it?

Kmet had another decent game, Montgomery and Herbert look like a good combo, the defense played well despite ridiculous field position because of Dalton's 4 INTs.

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Not a single pass over 20 yards and 4 INTs.

except that it wasn't "dalton's 4 INTs". kmet was solely responsible for one of them (completely wiping out his otherwise "decent game"). and two of them were off tipped balls (only one of which was due to inaccuracy)

as for nagy...HE definitely sucks. he never should have been let within 100 yards of justin fields. but given that he was, he was inevitably going to try to win ballgames. he felt that dalton (at least early on) gave him the best chance to do so, and there's zero indication that he was wrong on that count

the question for me is whether ryan pace felt in the offseason that he had carte blanche when it came to keeping or firing nagy. if he had the ability to, he royally screwed up by failing to do so. if he didn't, that would seem to indicate that their futures are tied together. but there have been no rumblings about pace being on the hot seat. it's a curious situation

[micromonkey]

Now Belichik went a bit overboard but he played the basic gameplan a normal high school coach would do vs a team with a better QB in bad weather. You run the F-ing ball down their throat- beat them up as much as you can and throw in some play action when they got 9+ in the box. You milk the S--- out of the clock to keep their QB off the darn field. Andy could have the option to audible out if he saw what he wanted. Bill didn't pass at all but I figure we could have done that--we didn't have the wind as bad but we did have wet conditions. But what did we do instead--as mentioned on NBC show--Monty with a big run--then dink and dunk time. Instead of beating the crap out of them and pounding it--to keep Murray off the field--we made sure we did nothing of the sort.

Also you risk less sacks and TOs by running more--he just doesn't get that at all--and we are actually good at running-unlike every one of his passing offenses.

And no not all INTs are fully on Andy--I agree with Dice on that. One is 100% on Kmet--inexcusable. One was only slightly on Andy and 2 are mostly on him. Again we don't know the routes guys were supposed to run, etc. Our WR/TE are nothing special (promising maybe but not close to "there") and a lot of drops and low YAC (as a group). But I will agree with the sentiment that short pass INTs are way worse than arm punt INTs. The point remains--you are going for low yardage and still get picks--well screw that--its just the trifecta of loser-dom. And sadly that is Nagy's offense to a T - uncomplimentary football.

We probably could have had 150-80 yard rushing but really what Nagy has consistently lacked is any sort of rhythm or flow. No matter who the QB, no matter what--its always disjointed and like he's playing the entire game off a script regardless of down and distance, situation, what is working. Either that or they are picking the playlist out of a random hat.

I find Fole's comment (when asked about Frank Reich) to be so freaking telling. Basically Foles said Reich knew what I was good at and what I liked to run and built an offense to help me succeed. --Which I will add is something Nagy has not been able to do with any QB. I also forgot that Foles really isn't that old....(32!) Why we thought Dalton would be the fix is beyond me--the fix is the darn coach and making the system fit the players and situation.

Not going for it on the 4th and 2 before half has also been beaten to death but even at the time--forget the stats--win %--all of that. You suck as a team, you are losing and only barely beat the Lions. What the F do yo have to lose--game was already getting out of hand - bar a miracle the Bears have never achieved under Nagy? Was Dalton going to turn into Brady/Mahomes / Rodgers and smoke the Cards in the 2nd half? Really is that what he was waiting for--some switch to flip? I've been waiting the whole time he's been here and it doesn't exist.

IDK if Nagy has the under or wants to get garbage time stats or what he's worried about--but it wasn't what he should have been worrying about. Utter abject failure right there--capitulation. He's a terrible coach. He needs to go, he never should have been here this year and no matter the embarrassment to the FO--he's only impacting everything for the worse every week he stays. I'd rather have the Bears run for 180+, control the clock and keep it a little closer-maybe pull off an upset--but no matter what make them work for it.

We passed 41 times--they passed 15. They had short fields because---oh yeah that's right turnovers on short passes. Again they let the game come to them--and with Murray actually ironically out-rushed us. If you take away 15 of those passes--10 more runs for Monty and 5 more for Herbert.--even if we averaged 3 YPC on those vs the 4.1 the we actually did. We'd have eaten that much more clock, prevented that many more turnovers and sacks (maybe 2 INTs and 1 sack) and we'd have totally dominated the time of possession--easily +5 more mins. There would have been less short fields and then we muck the game up. Sure, the Cards still likely win because they have the best player on the field in Murray--but it takes a late drive or some heroics to win. Or maybe we pull off the upset as they only would have likely had 20 mins to our 40 for time of possession.

Mistake, error free football can win--especially in December/Jan. Nagy still can't get out of his head making the game harder than it needs to be.

[Fl_Flash]

Two of the picks were 100% on Dalton - the last one and the first one where he threw way behind the receiver. The third one that was mostly on Dalton would have been the tipped pass. You could argue he should have seen the defender, but at least he was trying to make a play. You live with that pick. The throw to Kmet was 100% on Kmet.

In any event - I hope they don't put Fields out there against the Packers. Throw Dalton out there again. Get whooped. Give fields another week to heal up. Then focus on the final 4 very winnable games. That's when you get Fields back out there to finish off the season on (hopefully) a high note. Also get Teven Jenkens out there the final 4 weeks of the season. If he's at all ready to play - he should be out there. He doesn't have to start. Hell, platoon him with Peters and let him get some real-time, real-game reps in so that he knows how fast the NFL game is. At least then he should know things to work on in the offseason.

All I'm looking for is for the Bears to hopefully finish strong. See real progress from Fields. Find out if we have the beginnings of a decent offensive line with Jenkens and Borom getting reps. Get rid of Matt Nagy. Fire Pace. Have Jeff Bezos buy the Bears so that we no longer have to deal with the McCaskey's as owners. That's not too much to hope for.... Right?

[dice]

Two of the picks were 100% on Dalton - the last one and the first one where he threw way behind the receiver.

the only picks that are 100% on the QB are the throws that never should have been made. the first pick obviously involved both a bad throw and considerable bad luck

[micromonkey]

All I'm looking for is for the Bears to hopefully finish strong. See real progress from Fields. Find out if we have the beginnings of a decent offensive line with Jenkens and Borom getting reps. Get rid of Matt Nagy. Fire Pace. Have Jeff Bezos buy the Bears so that we no longer have to deal with the McCaskey's as owners. That's not too much to hope for.... Right?

Amen

Bezos would be a dream. I think he should just offer to overpay for the sheer vanity of it-like those euro club owners.

If he owns it the one thing you can be sure of is real accountability-which has been sorely missing in this inbred nepotistic operation.

[dice]

Now Belichik went a bit overboard...

probably so. my guess is that he went in planning to run the ball the strong majority of the time and got carried away when the running game showed some success. and the reason i think that is the ****-eating grin on his face after buffalo's final incompletion. as if he challenged himself to win a boxing match with one hand tied behind his back and succeeded. i've only seen him happier after winning a super bowl

[dice]

All I'm looking for is for the Bears to hopefully finish strong. See real progress from Fields. Find out if we have the beginnings of a decent offensive line with Jenkens and Borom getting reps. Get rid of Matt Nagy. Fire Pace. Have Jeff Bezos buy the Bears so that we no longer have to deal with the McCaskey's as owners. That's not too much to hope for.... Right?

Amen

Bezos would be a dream. I think he should just offer to overpay for the sheer vanity of it-like those euro club owners.

If he owns it the one thing you can be sure of is real accountability-which has been sorely missing in this inbred nepotistic operation.

certainly no need to have one of the wealthiest owners in the league given that every team spends roughly the same. the only real requirement of a successful nfl owner is competent hiring/firing

[micromonkey]

certainly no need to have one of the wealthiest owners in the league given that every team spends roughly the same. the only real requirement of a successful nfl owner is competent hiring/firing

Poorly worded and confusing on my end

Overpay the McCaskeys to buy club

He could spend more on non cap staff, training, analytics etc and probably get a discount on AWS services

[Susan]

Now Belichik went a bit overboard but he played the basic gameplan a normal high school coach would do vs a team with a better QB in bad weather. You run the F-ing ball down their throat- beat them up as much as you can and throw in some play action when they got 9+ in the box. You milk the S--- out of the clock to keep their QB off the darn field. Andy could have the option to audible out if he saw what he wanted. Bill didn't pass at all but I figure we could have done that--we didn't have the wind as bad but we did have wet conditions. But what did we do instead--as mentioned on NBC show--Monty with a big run--then dink and dunk time. Instead of beating the crap out of them and pounding it--to keep Murray off the field--we made sure we did nothing of the sort.

Also you risk less sacks and TOs by running more--he just doesn't get that at all--and we are actually good at running-unlike every one of his passing offenses.

And no not all INTs are fully on Andy--I agree with Dice on that. One is 100% on Kmet--inexcusable. One was only slightly on Andy and 2 are mostly on him. Again we don't know the routes guys were supposed to run, etc. Our WR/TE are nothing special (promising maybe but not close to "there") and a lot of drops and low YAC (as a group). But I will agree with the sentiment that short pass INTs are way worse than arm punt INTs. The point remains--you are going for low yardage and still get picks--well screw that--its just the trifecta of loser-dom. And sadly that is Nagy's offense to a T - uncomplimentary football.

We probably could have had 150-80 yard rushing but really what Nagy has consistently lacked is any sort of rhythm or flow. No matter who the QB, no matter what--its always disjointed and like he's playing the entire game off a script regardless of down and distance, situation, what is working. Either that or they are picking the playlist out of a random hat.

I find Fole's comment (when asked about Frank Reich) to be so freaking telling. Basically Foles said Reich knew what I was good at and what I liked to run and built an offense to help me succeed. --Which I will add is something Nagy has not been able to do with any QB. I also forgot that Foles really isn't that old....(32!) Why we thought Dalton would be the fix is beyond me--the fix is the darn coach and making the system fit the players and situation.

Not going for it on the 4th and 2 before half has also been beaten to death but even at the time--forget the stats--win %--all of that. You suck as a team, you are losing and only barely beat the Lions. What the F do yo have to lose--game was already getting out of hand - bar a miracle the Bears have never achieved under Nagy? Was Dalton going to turn into Brady/Mahomes / Rodgers and smoke the Cards in the 2nd half? Really is that what he was waiting for--some switch to flip? I've been waiting the whole time he's been here and it doesn't exist.

IDK if Nagy has the under or wants to get garbage time stats or what he's worried about--but it wasn't what he should have been worrying about. Utter abject failure right there--capitulation. He's a terrible coach. He needs to go, he never should have been here this year and no matter the embarrassment to the FO--he's only impacting everything for the worse every week he stays. I'd rather have the Bears run for 180+, control the clock and keep it a little closer-maybe pull off an upset--but no matter what make them work for it.

We passed 41 times--they passed 15. They had short fields because---oh yeah that's right turnovers on short passes. Again they let the game come to them--and with Murray actually ironically out-rushed us. If you take away 15 of those passes--10 more runs for Monty and 5 more for Herbert.--even if we averaged 3 YPC on those vs the 4.1 the we actually did. We'd have eaten that much more clock, prevented that many more turnovers and sacks (maybe 2 INTs and 1 sack) and we'd have totally dominated the time of possession--easily +5 more mins. There would have been less short fields and then we muck the game up. Sure, the Cards still likely win because they have the best player on the field in Murray--but it takes a late drive or some heroics to win. Or maybe we pull off the upset as they only would have likely had 20 mins to our 40 for time of possession.

Mistake, error free football can win--especially in December/Jan. Nagy still can't get out of his head making the game harder than it needs to be.

This is why I want Harbaugh. Montgomery, Herbert and Fields is a three headed combo that can win some tough, ugly football games and provide an offensive identity to a franchise that hasn't had really since Thomas Jones left.

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You can see that Monty is a special athlete, there's some guys in that lockerroom that are absolutely keepers, especially with the right coaching staff.

I don't think Nagy's lost the lockerroom (except for maybe ARob who might just be saving himself for free agency - which I understand) but they're just so banged up and he's really not that dude to lead a gritty team on Sundays.

I really don't want one of these hot offensive coordinator types. They get figured out way too quickly and sustained success in the NFL comes to instilling mental and physical toughness in your roster. This team has potential if they find the right HC.

[micromonkey]

This is why I want Harbaugh. Montgomery, Herbert and Fields is a three headed combo that can win some tough, ugly football games and provide an offensive identity to a franchise that hasn't had really since Thomas Jones left.

Watch on YouTube

You can see that Monty is a special athlete, there's some guys in that lockerroom that are absolutely keepers, especially with the right coaching staff.

I don't think Nagy's lost the lockerroom (except for maybe ARob who might just be saving himself for free agency - which I understand) but they're just so banged up and he's really not that dude to lead a gritty team on Sundays.

I really don't want one of these hot offensive coordinator types. They get figured out way too quickly and sustained success in the NFL comes to instilling mental and physical toughness in your roster. This team has potential if they find the right HC.

I'm a fan of that trio. They need to throw to the RBs as well--while I like Cohen--I was never a fan of subbing in one guy to mostly catch and another guy to mostly run--its just too obvious and you need some small element of surprise now and then.

Yeah the instilling mental toughness is for real. KC Joyner's book Blindsided has a bit about the coach types.
There were many issues with the book but his coach type classificaiton was very interesting to me and I think holds some truth to it.

The first axis choice for a coach is whether he is a personnel coach
or a scheme coach. The easiest way to describe the difference between
a personnel coach and a scheme coach is that a scheme coach will try
to beat his opponents with his coaching, while a personnel coach will
try to beat his opponents with his players.

There is obviously not a binary value--but a sliding scale. I'd say Belichik is a scheme coach--and he knows the type of guys he wants.
But when he has better players at a position--he uses them. When they had Gronk/Hernandez they passed the crap to their TEs. When he had better LBs he runs more complex schemes and blitzes more, he plays man or zone depending on what his guys do better (and this season they switched between both--they were man early, zone for stretch and man against Bills). The Bears seem unable to adapt and maximize their talent no matter the case.

Contrast the TE to Bears org and Greg Olsen--instead of building plays for him they shipped him off for beans as the scheme was too dominant. And today Bears with their RBs pretty safely being a stronger unit then the WRs--who should get more touches? Bill would have simply made sure more touches for Monty and Herbert--run and pass. If you look at basic catch rate/% our RB have low catches but high catch rates. Instead of maximizing it--Nagy runs all his hitch routes to WRs who are then turned around and can barely get up-field. He passes to a WR corp with a high drop level, low catch rate and low YAC. We saw Lazor and even Tabor try and change some things up a bit--and we saw some limited success even with minor changes. Some splash plays where the "system" got out of the players way and guys made some plays. Nagy made sure to end that when he came back.

The second alignment axis has to do with the level of physicality a
coach preaches to his players. By physicality, I mean the amount of
emphasis a coach places on having his team administer bodily pain to
the other team.
Many coaches believe that football is a battle of physical will and
that only the toughest teams will be capable of surviving this battle.
These types of coaches are labeled with a hitter alignment.
A coach who places little emphasis on pounding the other team into
submission and instead believes in beating his opponent with athleticism
has an athletic alignment.

Nagy clearly is not a hitter coach (Bill is). A hitter coach "gets" that whole run it down their throat and how it can demoralize. I'd also say playing to the opponent/weather is part of it. I think hitter coaches get that the battle is the trenches (we may just now be getting guys who fit this ironically) and imposing your will on the opponent. I think if you look at our WRs outside Arob they are smaller fast type guys. Pats have guys who catch the freaking ball and get YAC. I'm not sure that's a clear alignment thing but we value 40 times clearly more than the actual ability to catch the ball or run after catch. Pats have a 10% higher catch rate as a team--that is not insignificant. Its athletes (flashy 40 times) vs actual football players who can catch and help you win. This isn't to say they are exclusive but leaning too much on one clearly is an issue.

This isn't to say one philosophy is superior--but I think strong adherents on either end can lose due to inflexible thinking. Nagy clearly isn't even good at his scheme, nor identifying the types of guys who will do well with it, nor adapting it to his opponent, weather, etc. I find it funny Rodgers thinks the weather is barely a factor but maybe after he goes to 12 superbowls like Bill I will count his opinion as equal. I still remember when we played the Pats on a snowy day--Lovie practices indoors while Bill had his team outside practicing in the actual elements and of course we got completely destroyed. The fact that he's a "genius" for keeping practices as close to games is more an indictment on the rest of the NFL coaches than anything IMO.....And the Bills coach sour grapes after the game shows he clearly didn't take the weather seriously as a factor and refused to acknowledge it. Maybe...just maybe the guy who has been to a dozen superbowls is on to something? 50 MPH wind gusts.. hmm maybe an issue

Anyway--back to Harbaugh
I think he's a "hitter" and "personnel" guy and he defers the details of his scheme to his assistants--who then adapt. And I think we have seen they adapt well--so he's not going to let some theoretical system get in the way of getting the ball in the hands of the guys who can help you win.
It seems in general a philosophy I can live with-- by being a "CEO" and delegating the details--you can maximize your ability to instill toughness, discipline and no mistakes and still play a "system".

If the guy is an all in his head OC type--he's overly focused on one aspect of the game and misses the bigger issues IMO.

[BeatDaCavs420]

I love how Nagy is trying to act he is not calling plays. But it's clear as day that the game plan on offense is a Nagy special and if its not then Bill Lazor is more of a clown than I thought.

[MalagaBulls]

QB situation in doubt for GB game. Fields is still nursing the rib injury. Next man up - That means Foles?

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[micromonkey]

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OK well then I guess that settles that.

Hopefully we see run heavy and at least a few screens to slow down the blitz. Yes, yes I love Field's deep ball--he just doesn't need to be throwing it every time. Get that off play action--hopefully in some rhythm to catch them off guard. Not likely but hey I can hope.

Shock me Nagy--have some designed roll outs/boots , some well planned RPO--have the RBs go 30x. Prove us liars

[Susan]

QB situation in doubt for GB game. Fields is still nursing the rib injury. Next man up - That means Foles?

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Justin is starting.

[MalagaBulls]

Nagy taking kidney shots from all over the place.

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[jacoby1us]

Not sure why the Bears are intending on playing Fields without any upgrades to the offensive line or protection schemes to help him. This team is in denial of their window being closed.

[Mbrahv0528]

Not sure why the Bears are intending on playing Fields without any upgrades to the offensive line or protection schemes to help him. This team is in denial of their window being closed.

If they were in denial they'd be playing Dalton, not Fields, as he supposedly gives the team a better chance to win (I highly disagree with that notion for what it's worth).

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