OT: The next President of the United States: ★★★ Donald Trump ★★★

[Gandalf]

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idiots

[SpinninHouse]

Please don't quote me with stats and comments suggesting racists have always voted. No ****.

The point isn't about racists having a vote, it's about your president being a bigot who said some terrible ****.

Yeah and my point is you can partially thank your own party for him getting elected.

Yes, Trump said (and did) awful things. I sure as heck didn't vote for him - and out of every one I know, only two voted for him. And Hillary Clinton did some equally deplorable things. She risked national security by using a private server. She lied to the families who lost loved one's in Benghazi. She has fronted the Clinton Foundation as an altruistic non-profit when it was really just an expense account funded by frightening people (Saudis, Algerians, etc).

Every one understands Trump is a horrible person - but how can liberals in their hearts of hearts pretend Hillary Clinton isn't awful in her own right? If they both weren't so awful, Clinton would be the next POTUS.

[kingkirk]

Yeah and my point is you can partially thank your own party for him getting elected.

I have no party in this race. I'm not American.

[DuckIII]

The sad thing is the overt Trump supporting racist, sexist, bigoted, xenophobes won. It's a Democracy. This is us.

The funny thing is watching closet Trump backing pussies support the win with carefully crafted language about how the result is about everything except what Trump ran on. Cowards.

[gardenofsound]

Please don't quote me with stats and comments suggesting racists have always voted. No ****.

The point isn't about racists having a vote, it's about your president being a bigot who said some terrible ****.

Are you referring to comments beyond this one?

"When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," he said.

I honestly don't see how someone can know what racism means, and call that comment racist. Now, Drumpf may very well be racist. In fact it's probably a pretty good bet because even real deal racists rarely speak up in public these days. But are there more comments than the relatively tame one I quoted that lead people to call him a racist?

Honest question.

Are you saying that that comment is not racist/xenophobic?

Here's the sentence by sentence translation.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best." = Mexicans in the USA are not good.

"They're not sending you." = You're good. They're bad.

"They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with them." - These people are damaged goods, and they're going to damage you too.

"They're bringing drugs." = They are drug dealers.

"They're bringing crime." = They are criminals.

"They're rapists." = They're coming to rape your [insert female relative here]. Take it a step further, the Mexicans are coming to rape the white women.

"And some, I assume, are good people." = The majority are these terrible aforementioned people. Some might be good, but I can only assume because I haven't seen it myself.

Frankly, I have no idea how this cannot be seen as pretty damned racist.

Banning all Muslims is blatant religious discrimination.

[waffle]

- Is trump a bigot? Sure.
- Does Trump care about anyone other than himself? Sure doesn't seem so
- Was Hillary a great candidate? Hell no, but I don't see who was all that much better on the D side. Pathetic

There were only a couple of factors here that drove the Trump vote - HE HAD NO FRIGGIN POSITIONS, so

* He's a man.
* He plays on people's fears of America losing it's identity (including RACIAL identity)
* He wasn't Hillary (or, as above, a woman)

And - People feel that the government doesn't care about them any more. Note, that many of the programs that USED to help downwardly mobile folks have been gutted by the Republicans. EVEN the cost of colleges has alot to do with that. They cut funding at the state level dramatically. Result? Only folks with money could afford it and costs in general have gone up.

There really wasn't all the much else about it. He really didn't detail any policies and those he did even his own people said they wouldn't fly

Hillary was not a great candidate, true, but the email thing really was a non issue, she's a woman, and she refused to say that America is under attack from foreign types.

Point made. Now lets just hope we all get REALLY lucky and Trump doesn't drill this country into the freakin' ground. It's a very real possibility. Hoorah

[TheSuzerain]

Please don't quote me with stats and comments suggesting racists have always voted. No ****.

The point isn't about racists having a vote, it's about your president being a bigot who said some terrible ****.

Are you referring to comments beyond this one?

"When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," he said.

I honestly don't see how someone can know what racism means, and call that comment racist. Now, Trump may very well be racist. In fact it's probably a pretty good bet because even real deal racists rarely speak up in public these days. But are there more comments than the relatively tame one I quoted that lead people to call him a racist?

Honest question.

There is a laundry list of instances of Trump being racist both prior to and during the election.

[logical_art]

Stan Van Gundy went on an epic rant.

I didn’t vote for (George W.) Bush, but he was a good, honorable man with whom I had political differences, so I didn’t vote for him. But for our country to be where we are now, who took a guy who -- I don’t care what anyone says, I’m sure they have other reasons and maybe good reasons for voting for Donald Trump -- but I don’t think anybody can deny this guy is openly and brazenly racist and misogynistic and ethnic-centric, and say, ‘That’s OK with us, we’re going to vote for him anyway.'

We have just thrown a good part of our population under the bus, and I have problems with thinking that this is where we are as a country. It’s tough on (the team), we noticed it coming in. Everybody was a little quiet, and I thought, ‘Well, maybe the game the other night.’ And so we talked about that, but then Aron Baynes said, ‘I don’t think that’s why everybody’s quiet. It’s last night.’

It's just, we have said -- and my daughters, the three of them -- our society has said, ‘No, we think you should be second-class citizens. We want you to be second-class citizens. And we embrace a guy who is openly misogynistic as our leader.' I don’t know how we get past that.

Martin Luther King said, 'The arc of the moral universe is long, but bends toward justice.' I would have believed in that for a long time, but not today. … What we have done to minorities … in this election is despicable. I’m having a hard time dealing with it. This isn’t your normal candidate. I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that.

I understand problems with the economy. I understand all the problems with Hillary Clinton, I do. But certain things in our country should disqualify you. And the fact that millions and millions of Americans don’t think that racism and sexism disqualifies you to be our leader, in our country ... . We presume to tell other countries about human-rights abuses and everything else. We better never do that again, when our leaders talk to China or anybody else about human-rights abuses.

We just elected an openly, brazen misogynist leader and we should keep our mouths shut and realize that we need to be learning maybe from the rest of the world, because we don’t got anything to teach anybody.

It’s embarrassing. I have been ashamed of a lot of things that have happened in this country, but I can’t say I’ve ever been ashamed of our country until today. Until today. We all have to find our way to move forward, but that was -- and I’m not even trying to make a political statement. To me, that’s beyond politics.

You don’t get to come out and talk about people like that, and then lead our country and have millions of Americans embrace you. I’m having a hard time being with people. I’m going to walk into this arena tonight and realize that -- especially in this state -- most of these people voted for the guy. Like, (expletive), I don’t have any respect for that. I don’t.

And then you read how he was embraced by conservative Christians. Evangelical Christians. I’m not a religious guy, but what the hell Bible are they reading? I’m dead serious. What Bible are you reading? And you’re supposed to be — it’s different. There are a lot of different groups we can be upset at. But you’re Christians. You’re supposed to be — at least you pride yourself on being the moral compass of our society. And you said, ‘Yeah, the guy can talk about women like that. I’m fine with that.’ He can disparage every ethnic group, and I’m fine with that.

Look, I don’t get it. And I’m having a hard time taking it. I’m just glad that the people I’m with here — and I’ll include you guys, too — that I like. Because I’m going to have a hard time. I will say, one point of pride, I live in Oakland County, Michigan, and I was surprised, but Oakland County voted for Clinton. At least I can look around say, ‘We weren’t the ones putting that guy in office.'

It’s incredible. I don’t know how you go about it, if you’re a person of color today or a Latino. Because white society just said to you, again -- not like we haven’t forever -- but again, and emphatically, that I don’t think you deserve equality. We don’t think you deserve respect. And the same with women. That’s what we say today, as a country. We should be ashamed for what we stand for as the United States today.

That’s it for me. I don’t have anything to say about the game tonight.

Link?

[kingkirk]

Are you referring to comments beyond this one?

"When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," he said.

I honestly don't see how someone can know what racism means, and call that comment racist. Now, Trump may very well be racist. In fact it's probably a pretty good bet because even real deal racists rarely speak up in public these days. But are there more comments than the relatively tame one I quoted that lead people to call him a racist?

Honest question.

Forgive me when I say I don't think this is an honest question.

[kingkirk]

Link?

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2016/11/09/detroit-pistons-stan-van-gundy/93551178/

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Before you get too fascinated with the small percentage of non-whites that voted Trump, why don't you look at the Hillary-Trump breakdown:

Black 88% to 8%
Latino 65% to 29%
18-30 54% to 37%

Obama got almost every black vote. They're making a big deal out of the drop, but it's still a landslide difference. Seeing as the KKK openly endorsed Trump and he didn't rebute their endorsement, I find it funny that people have the audacity to say it's not white lashback after 8 years of 'monkey' mockery being thrown Obama's way. I have the (dis)pleasure of traveling a lot, and have seen what racist-redneck America's thoughts are. Sad times for immigrants and blacks, that's all I'll say. But hey, it'll give them a chip on their shoulder.

3rd-gen. Latinos are an odd bunch. They buy the koolaid depending where they live (TX, FL), and they're very religious. Honestly, if I was latino and voting Trump, I'd be ashamed of myself knowing that I just threw my relatives under the bus.

My wife is Latino but also very Catholic. College educated, decent job. She wouldve likely voted the same measures as me. However an influential priest, an obnoxious Neverttrumper who eventually voted the evangelical slate basically said that no one is "really Catholic" if they voted anything else. She was really really conflicted and ended up simply not voting.

[League Circles]

Please don't quote me with stats and comments suggesting racists have always voted. No ****.

The point isn't about racists having a vote, it's about your president being a bigot who said some terrible ****.

Are you referring to comments beyond this one?

"When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," he said.

I honestly don't see how someone can know what racism means, and call that comment racist. Now, Drumpf may very well be racist. In fact it's probably a pretty good bet because even real deal racists rarely speak up in public these days. But are there more comments than the relatively tame one I quoted that lead people to call him a racist?

Honest question.

Are you saying that that comment is not racist/xenophobic?

Here's the sentence by sentence translation.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best." = Mexicans in the USA are not good.

"They're not sending you." = You're good. They're bad.

"They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with them." - These people are damaged goods, and they're going to damage you too.

"They're bringing drugs." = They are drug dealers.

"They're bringing crime." = They are criminals.

"They're rapists." = They're coming to rape your [insert female relative here]. Take it a step further, the Mexicans are coming to rape the white women.

"And some, I assume, are good people." = The majority are these terrible aforementioned people. Some might be good, but I can only assume because I haven't seen it myself.

Frankly, I have no idea how this cannot be seen as pretty damned racist.

Banning all Muslims is blatant religious discrimination.

Well, first of all, being a racist and xenophobe are different things.

You literally just "translated" every part of the phrasing to appear as bad as possible.

Only Donald can know if he meant "some", "all", "most", etc. IMO, he made it a little bit clear with the last phrase that he of course meant "some" (which is of course true). But let's just discount that so that we can feel more divided and outraged.

I am muslim myself. I hate Trump and did not vote for him, but I'll defend somebody against unwarranted outrage, especially when it's crucial for all of us to have harmony right now.

Banning muslims (IIRC, he was only going to ban new muslim immigrants as opposed to kicking out muslims here) is indeed religious discrimination (which is a new topic in this exchange. Racism and religious discrimination are not the same thing). It's also well within the right of the US government IMO. I don't agree with it and it is scary, but here is my reasoning:

1. The U.S. doesn't owe anyone immigration rights
2. The U.S. currently doesn't have the money to run the immigration system (or much of what we do)
3. We need mechanisms to reduce the number of people we review because of #2
4. banning all muslim applicants is way over inclusive if they're going after terrorists, but, again, nobody has a right to immigrate here, and it would go a decent way towards increasing potential safety.
5. conclusion - someone isn't necessarily racist when they suggest doing this, especially if they indicate that it would be temporary until better methods can be implemented (which is what Trump said)

[suckfish]

Racism, sexism, class.. Whatever. It's rebellion. We saw the same with Brexit. It's a middle finger to the system. Simple as.

[League Circles]

Are you referring to comments beyond this one?

"When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," he said.

I honestly don't see how someone can know what racism means, and call that comment racist. Now, Trump may very well be racist. In fact it's probably a pretty good bet because even real deal racists rarely speak up in public these days. But are there more comments than the relatively tame one I quoted that lead people to call him a racist?

Honest question.

Forgive me when I say I don't think this is an honest question.

Oh, OK. Did you have equally honest outrage over the incredibly racist Australian politicians?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/07/australia-pauline-hanson-wins-anti-islam-ticket-160710095439162.html

If you didn't think my question was honest, you haven't learned much about me in 12 years here, which sucks. Please see my reply to GardenofSound if you don't believe my comment.

[League Circles]

There is a laundry list of instances of Trump being racist both prior to and during the election.

I don't think we share the same definition of racism.

[League Circles]

I think SVG should be ashamed of himself for saying:

I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that.

The bolded is just an outright lie. No wonder he is so upset. He's working on the premise of a lie.

IDK, I was pissed last night, just like I was pissed when Rose was traded. I'm trying to be positive now, just like I did when Gar and Pax turned to Rondo, etc.

FWIW, there are things about Donald that I think are absolutely disgusting and unacceptable, such as making fun of people's appearance (we've all done it but doing it in public as an adult in power is despicable), and making fun of that reporter's disability. That's some low, low ****.

[FecesOfDeath]

All SVG has time for getting his information is from television, and we all know where the vast majority of television aligns politically. The DNC and mainstream media colluded to practice the biggest form of North Korean-style brainwashing in American history.

[Rerisen]

I am muslim myself. I hate Trump and did not vote for him, but I'll defend somebody against unwarranted outrage, especially when it's crucial for all of us to have harmony right now.

I'm half Mexican and agree that extreme polarization is not helpful. Worse its ineffective.

What we can see is merely name calling in lieu of a good argument was a losing strategy for the Dems, doubling down on it as reason for being defeated offers little vision or room for improvement going forward. It is only by communicating better ideas that will win. Barack Obama was able to achieve this 2 times, and Hillary was unable to. Unless Obama's own presidency turned many of the same voters who voted for him, racist, then something doesn't add up.

Where we can see the message wasn't a persuasive one is because Trump seems to have won at least as many African Americans as would be normal for Republicans. He did a tad better with Hispanics even. As well as over 40% of woman. If the very people that are told they are being slighted are themselves not buying into a message of why this candidate is uniquely more dangerous to them, than say a cardboard politician like Romney, then something a bit more stimulating needs to be offered.

[burlydee]

I think SVG should be ashamed of himself for saying:

I don’t know even know if I have political differences with him. I don’t even know what are his politics. I don’t know, other than to build a wall and 'I hate people of color, and women are to be treated as sex objects and as servants to men.' I don’t know how you get past that. I don’t know how you walk into the booth and vote for that.

The bolded is just an outright lie. No wonder he is so upset. He's working on the premise of a lie.

IDK, I was pissed last night, just like I was pissed when Rose was traded. I'm trying to be positive now, just like I did when Gar and Pax turned to Rondo, etc.

FWIW, there are things about Donald that I think are absolutely disgusting and unacceptable, such as making fun of people's appearance (we've all done it but doing it in public as an adult in power is despicable), and making fun of that reporter's disability. That's some low, low ****.

Its not a "lie" b/c you disagree.

[League Circles]

I am muslim myself. I hate Trump and did not vote for him, but I'll defend somebody against unwarranted outrage, especially when it's crucial for all of us to have harmony right now.

I'm half Mexican and agree that extreme polarization is not helpful. Worse its ineffective.

What we can see is merely name calling in lieu of a good argument was a losing strategy for the Dems, doubling down on it as reason for being defeated offers little vision or room for improvement going forward. It is only by communicating better ideas that will win. Barack Obama was able to achieve this 2 times, and Hillary was unable to. Unless Obama's own presidency turned many of the same voters who voted for him, racist, then something doesn't add up.

The reason the message wasn't a persuasive one is because Trump seems to have won at least as many African Americans as would be normal for Republicans. As well as over 40% of woman. If the very people that are told they are being slighted are themselves not buying into a message of why this candidate is uniquely more dangerous to them, than say a cardboard politician like Romney, then something a bit more stimulating needs to be offered.

Yes, that's always my main point when I counter in the way I've done here on these issues. Calling Donald Trump a racist a thousand times isn't going to create better policy, and it certainly isn't going to win over the hearts and minds of his supporters.

Often I think lots of people don't want to win over hearts and minds and live in harmony. They want to achieve ideological defeat of their opponents, win everything 51/49, and dance on the graves of their opponents for the brief period of "victory" they feel they have won.