Coronavirus

[Chi town]

On whether or not China is reporting accurately- this from "Jeremy Konyndyk, an expert at the Center for Global Development think tank, who led the Office of U.S. Foreign Disaster Assistance from 2013 to 2017, including the U.S. response to the Ebola outbreak...."while Beijing concealed the severity of the initial outbreak, it does not appear to be doctoring numbers now, however."

China "seems to be the most successful country in terms of taking very large-scale growth and rapidly extinguishing it," he said. "If their case numbers are real, it's really important to understand their approach and adapt it."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-spies-coronavirus-spread-china-211307985.html

I believe it, because their quarantine and surveillance measures are through the roof. They're pretty used to these outbreaks at this point. And frankly I think they don't have the shortage of PPE and ICU supplies, because they manufacture them.

WSJ reported today China is back up and running and even opened movie theatres but then shut them
Back down after a couple days because of fear of another outbreak.

[Dresden]

So I have been quarantined for the last 2 weeks. Suspected of having Corona but did not qualify to be tested.

Today was my first day out and man what I saw today has me shaken. I don't know how much longer people can live like this with out many snapping. Went to the grocery store and people can't even make eye contact. I thought one guy was going to beat an old man for coming with in 6 feet of him. A lot of very social people have got to be having a very hard time. I'm fairly anti social and I can tell it's going to get to me.

What is going to happen when people realize they don't have jobs to go back to?

Hope you are feeling better!

It’s so challenging on a mental and emotional level
My friends that are single and live alone are having the hardest time. Basically, working themselves into the ground.

Where do you live? I expect social awkwardness to continue for months after all restrictions are lifted.

I find that taking a walk outside where I can see other people and get some fresh air helps a lot. It's also good for your vitamin D levels.

[Ccwatercraft]

So I have been quarantined for the last 2 weeks. Suspected of having Corona but did not qualify to be tested.

Today was my first day out and man what I saw today has me shaken. I don't know how much longer people can live like this with out many snapping. Went to the grocery store and people can't even make eye contact. I thought one guy was going to beat an old man for coming with in 6 feet of him. A lot of very social people have got to be having a very hard time. I'm fairly anti social and I can tell it's going to get to me.

What is going to happen when people realize they don't have jobs to go back to?

Interesting, my thoughts were the opposite, what I've noticed is the people have been more polite, helpful, considerate. and thankful for each others efforts and hard work.

try another store maybe.

[Michael Jackson]

So I have been quarantined for the last 2 weeks. Suspected of having Corona but did not qualify to be tested.

Today was my first day out and man what I saw today has me shaken. I don't know how much longer people can live like this with out many snapping. Went to the grocery store and people can't even make eye contact. I thought one guy was going to beat an old man for coming with in 6 feet of him. A lot of very social people have got to be having a very hard time. I'm fairly anti social and I can tell it's going to get to me.

What is going to happen when people realize they don't have jobs to go back to?

Interesting, my thoughts were the opposite, what I've noticed is the people have been more polite, helpful, considerate. and thankful for each others efforts and hard work.

try another store maybe.

Yeah I would agree with this for the most part people are generally really cordial and helpful in my neck of the woods.

[disoblige]

On whether or not China is reporting accurately- this from "Jeremy Konyndyk, an expert at the Center for Global Development think tank, who led the Office of U.S. Foreign Disaster Assistance from 2013 to 2017, including the U.S. response to the Ebola outbreak...."while Beijing concealed the severity of the initial outbreak, it does not appear to be doctoring numbers now, however."

China "seems to be the most successful country in terms of taking very large-scale growth and rapidly extinguishing it," he said. "If their case numbers are real, it's really important to understand their approach and adapt it."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-spies-coronavirus-spread-china-211307985.html

"IF", "SEEMS".

Wuhan nurse
Two nurses in Wuhan, who wished to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the pandemic, told the Financial Times of “hidden” infections that met the national criteria for confirmed cases but were not being recognised in the city’s official count, helping to keep it at or near zero.
“The medics I know are all telling me that the hospital and the [National] Health Commission are using all their means to control the new case count,” said one of the nurses.
“It is extremely worrying to continue to publicise ‘zero new cases’. It is very risky and it will turn the sacrifices made in Wuhan and the whole of Hubei to nothing.”

The newspaper says scientists have told Johnson that China could have downplayed its number of confirmed cases of the coronavirus "by a factor of 15 to 40 times." China had reported 81,439 cases at the time of writing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3

You don't understand China has 1.386 Billion people. Sorry I'm not letting you spread CCP propaganda.

[dice]

On whether or not China is reporting accurately- this from "Jeremy Konyndyk, an expert at the Center for Global Development think tank, who led the Office of U.S. Foreign Disaster Assistance from 2013 to 2017, including the U.S. response to the Ebola outbreak...."while Beijing concealed the severity of the initial outbreak, it does not appear to be doctoring numbers now, however."

China "seems to be the most successful country in terms of taking very large-scale growth and rapidly extinguishing it," he said. "If their case numbers are real, it's really important to understand their approach and adapt it."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-spies-coronavirus-spread-china-211307985.html

"IF", "SEEMS".

Wuhan nurse
Two nurses in Wuhan, who wished to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the pandemic, told the Financial Times of “hidden” infections that met the national criteria for confirmed cases but were not being recognised in the city’s official count, helping to keep it at or near zero.
“The medics I know are all telling me that the hospital and the [National] Health Commission are using all their means to control the new case count,” said one of the nurses.
“It is extremely worrying to continue to publicise ‘zero new cases’. It is very risky and it will turn the sacrifices made in Wuhan and the whole of Hubei to nothing.”

The newspaper says scientists have told Johnson that China could have downplayed its number of confirmed cases of the coronavirus "by a factor of 15 to 40 times." China had reported 81,439 cases at the time of writing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3

You don't understand China has 1.386 Billion people. Sorry I'm not letting you spread CCP propaganda.

Jeremy Konyndyk is spreading CCP propaganda? that's quite an accusation

[dice]

good news for all americans!



not hard to pile up the ratings when you interrupt regularly scheduled programming on many channels WHILE PEOPLE ARE STUCK AT HOME WATCHING TELEVISION to update the nation on a freaking pandemic

[dice]

and david geffen is getting by OK in isolation!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-30/geffen-s-superyacht-isolation-draws-outrage-while-industry-sinks

[Wingy]

Well, no it's not pointless and that's why you seem to be missing the point of this. Taking any of these steps can seriously reduce risk. And you should always wash your fruits and vegetables, that's always been recommended. Obviously, people don't traditionally wash it with soap like it's their hands, but putting a bunch of apples in soapy water for few minutes and then rinsing it off isn't really going to ruin your day either.

It might not ruin your day, or maybe it will. Maybe if you get so paranoid over every little possible way that you can ever get a germ that it will actually cause you significant permanent psychological harm and that being paranoid over avoiding 100% of all risk will put you in a bad place in life.

I would not judge anyone who wants to avoid as much risk as possible or whom wants to share stories of how to avoid risk on this thread, but I also wouldn't judge people whom have a different level of risk tolerance. This isn't the equivalent of someone going out to a coronavirus party or going out to the beach and digging their head in the sand here.

In a succinct manner - pretty much what Doug said - but I'll go deeper from my perspective. I don't recall literally anyone being "negative" toward Dr. VW. Homo - your reaction, and words strongly imply you are simply (even) more concerned than others. I 100% know it wasn't directed at anyone personally, but I think you even threw in the word "lazy" at one point which is what I mean by your choice of words being a tell that you are experiencing this differently than others (and on the other hand - similar to others).

Folks just stated that the video's instructed level of caution isn't for them. I actually gave him kudos for giving those that are more concerned some practices that would make them safer to some unknown degree, and make them feel better in the process.

In our household:
- We're both still trying to work from home
- Parenting two young kids - one that doesn't sleep through the night/is a constant destruction-in-waiting, and both kids get up pretty early
- Keeping up with the constant corona news
- Keeping in touch with family/friends
- Trying to find some minuscule quantity of time to relax
- Oh, and we also own a semi-high maintenance dog (I'm one American completely with you re: shoes in the house!!!).

This forum, and this thread is a bit of two for one for me from that list. My point isn't a "woe is me" cry for any sympathy here (though I surely ask that of friends/family) - cause most people are in the same boat, or worse. It's to say that different people really value their time differently, which duh - yes you surely know that...but you're somehow surprised people have this stance.

Yes, he's a doctor - but does he know the real odds of the virus transferring in this way in the first place? Especially if you use common sense/best practices, and wash the hell out of your hands when you get home, then again after putting the groceries away, and not touching your face in-between? I'm no scientist, or doctor, but I'd be willing to bet money that it's a ridiculously minuscule % risk reduction when compared against the required time/effort.

One practitioner here of Dr. VW's video suggestions pointed out their grocery shopping experience (I assume in total) took them 3 hours. Unless I'm mistaken, another pointed out 1.5 hours to do just the washing part. That's just too much for me, for an unknown, and to me - highly questionable amount of benefit. I'm just not going to invest even more in this pandemic when it is already sucking up so much of my time, creating anxiety, and damaging my emotional/mental/physical/financial well-being. No more...I draw the line. It's simply not worth the additional trade-off.

[dice]

"a friend of mine thought he was being responsible. he had the mask on, the gloves on...and he got gonorrhea" - tracy morgan

[disoblige]

On whether or not China is reporting accurately- this from "Jeremy Konyndyk, an expert at the Center for Global Development think tank, who led the Office of U.S. Foreign Disaster Assistance from 2013 to 2017, including the U.S. response to the Ebola outbreak...."while Beijing concealed the severity of the initial outbreak, it does not appear to be doctoring numbers now, however."

China "seems to be the most successful country in terms of taking very large-scale growth and rapidly extinguishing it," he said. "If their case numbers are real, it's really important to understand their approach and adapt it."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-spies-coronavirus-spread-china-211307985.html

"IF", "SEEMS".

Wuhan nurse
Two nurses in Wuhan, who wished to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the pandemic, told the Financial Times of “hidden” infections that met the national criteria for confirmed cases but were not being recognised in the city’s official count, helping to keep it at or near zero.
“The medics I know are all telling me that the hospital and the [National] Health Commission are using all their means to control the new case count,” said one of the nurses.
“It is extremely worrying to continue to publicise ‘zero new cases’. It is very risky and it will turn the sacrifices made in Wuhan and the whole of Hubei to nothing.”

The newspaper says scientists have told Johnson that China could have downplayed its number of confirmed cases of the coronavirus "by a factor of 15 to 40 times." China had reported 81,439 cases at the time of writing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3

You don't understand China has 1.386 Billion people. Sorry I'm not letting you spread CCP propaganda.

Jeremy Konyndyk is spreading CCP propaganda? that's quite an accusation

if you read the content it implies

Title- U.S. spy agencies can't get clear picture of coronavirus spread in China, North Korea, Russia

First Line - As U.S. spy agencies seek to assemble a precise picture of the world's coronavirus outbreaks, they are finding serious gaps in their ability to assess the situation in China, Russia and North Korea, according to five U.S. government sources familiar with the intelligence reporting.

https://nationalpost.com/news/u-s-spies-find-coronavirus-spread-in-china-north-korea-russia-hard-to-chart

[Dresden]

"IF", "SEEMS".





https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-with-china-2020-3

You don't understand China has 1.386 Billion people. Sorry I'm not letting you spread CCP propaganda.

Jeremy Konyndyk is spreading CCP propaganda? that's quite an accusation

if you read the content it implies

Title- U.S. spy agencies can't get clear picture of coronavirus spread in China, North Korea, Russia

First Line - As U.S. spy agencies seek to assemble a precise picture of the world's coronavirus outbreaks, they are finding serious gaps in their ability to assess the situation in China, Russia and North Korea, according to five U.S. government sources familiar with the intelligence reporting.

https://nationalpost.com/news/u-s-spies-find-coronavirus-spread-in-china-north-korea-russia-hard-to-chart

I'm not trying to spread CCP propaganda- just trying to calm down the anti-China hysteria that you and others are spreading with some countervailing points of view....backed up by the opinion of a highly regarded US expert on the subject.

Chinese Americans have already been spit upon, threatened and even beaten up because Americans think that they are responsible for the pandemic.

[Dresden]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/chinas-lifting-restrictions-worked-flu-072435570.html

- China's lifting of restrictions related to the coronavirus has been successful, according to research by Imperial College in London. "As movement increased and China restarted their economy, we didn't see an increase in transmission," says Dr. Kylie Ainslie, research associate in influenza dynamics in the Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology at Imperial. She speaks on "Bloomberg Markets: European Open."

Of course, take this with a grain of salt, coming as it does from that hotbed of Chinese propaganda, Imperial College in London.

[disoblige]

Jeremy Konyndyk is spreading CCP propaganda? that's quite an accusation

if you read the content it implies

Title- U.S. spy agencies can't get clear picture of coronavirus spread in China, North Korea, Russia

First Line - As U.S. spy agencies seek to assemble a precise picture of the world's coronavirus outbreaks, they are finding serious gaps in their ability to assess the situation in China, Russia and North Korea, according to five U.S. government sources familiar with the intelligence reporting.

https://nationalpost.com/news/u-s-spies-find-coronavirus-spread-in-china-north-korea-russia-hard-to-chart

I'm not trying to spread CCP propaganda- just trying to calm down the anti-China hysteria that you and others are spreading with some countervailing points of view....backed up by the opinion of a highly regarded US expert on the subject.

Chinese Americans have already been spit upon, threatened and even beaten up because Americans think that they are responsible for the pandemic.

He never backed it up. He said 'If their case numbers are real'.

[Dresden]

Even if a restaurant worker coughs or sneezes directly in your food, you won't catch coronavirus from eating the meal

https://www.yahoo.com/news/even-restaurant-worker-coughs-sneezes-123634019.html

According to Jaimie Meyer, MD, a Yale Medicine infectious disease specialist, there is no evidence to date of food-borne transmission of the coronavirus.

"The primary mode of transmission of the virus from person to person is through direct inhalation of droplets (as in, being within 6 feet of someone when they cough or sneeze and breathing it in)," Meyer said.

Meyer and Cioe-Pena said that you should maintain a six-foot distance between yourself and the cashier or delivery person while ordering. Avoid sharing a pen if you're signing a bill. Make sure to wash your hands after handling the packaging of the food, which could possibly spread the coronavirus — though Cio-Pena says the risk is low. And to be sure to tip well.

[dice]

if you read the content it implies

Title- U.S. spy agencies can't get clear picture of coronavirus spread in China, North Korea, Russia

First Line - As U.S. spy agencies seek to assemble a precise picture of the world's coronavirus outbreaks, they are finding serious gaps in their ability to assess the situation in China, Russia and North Korea, according to five U.S. government sources familiar with the intelligence reporting.

https://nationalpost.com/news/u-s-spies-find-coronavirus-spread-in-china-north-korea-russia-hard-to-chart

I'm not trying to spread CCP propaganda- just trying to calm down the anti-China hysteria that you and others are spreading with some countervailing points of view....backed up by the opinion of a highly regarded US expert on the subject.

Chinese Americans have already been spit upon, threatened and even beaten up because Americans think that they are responsible for the pandemic.

He never backed it up. He said 'If their case numbers are real'.

that doesn't make what he's saying propaganda, which is what you falsely implied. and false charges of spreading propaganda isn't much better than propaganda itself

china is almost certainly fudging their numbers. and guess what? it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. nor is it surprising. it's not like it ruins their sterling reputation for transparency. it's just one more piece of evidence on the pile of them being bad actors on the international stage

[dice]

Even if a restaurant worker coughs or sneezes directly in your food, you won't catch coronavirus from eating the meal

https://www.yahoo.com/news/even-restaurant-worker-coughs-sneezes-123634019.html

According to Jaimie Meyer, MD, a Yale Medicine infectious disease specialist, there is no evidence to date of food-borne transmission of the coronavirus.

"The primary mode of transmission of the virus from person to person is through direct inhalation of droplets (as in, being within 6 feet of someone when they cough or sneeze and breathing it in)," Meyer said.

Meyer and Cioe-Pena said that you should maintain a six-foot distance between yourself and the cashier or delivery person while ordering. Avoid sharing a pen if you're signing a bill. Make sure to wash your hands after handling the packaging of the food, which could possibly spread the coronavirus — though Cio-Pena says the risk is low. And to be sure to tip well.

sharing a pen is worse than eating food that someone sneezes in?

[Dresden]

I thought this comment by Trump was precious- about how the democrats wanted to add things to the stimulus bill that would have made it easier for people to vote via the mail in the event they didn't want to go to a polling place because of the pandemic:

“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again,”

[Dresden]

Can you trust US numbers any more than China's?

Public health official: Confirmed U.S. coronavirus cases 'a small fraction of the actual number'

The official count of the number of people with coronavirus, or COVID-19, is likely to grossly underestimate the actual stats, according to a public health expert.

“Remember, we did not have testing rolled out when we should have… a couple of months ago,” Dr. Robyn Gershon, a clinical professor of epidemiology at New York University’s School of Global Public Health, told Yahoo Finance’s The Ticker. “We were delayed — now some of those tests are coming forward… [and] the numbers I’ve seen have indicated that this number is a small fraction of the actual number of positive cases in the U.S. I’ve seen estimates from anywhere [between] five to 15 times that number.”

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/coronavirus-tests-214310206.html

[disoblige]

I'm not trying to spread CCP propaganda- just trying to calm down the anti-China hysteria that you and others are spreading with some countervailing points of view....backed up by the opinion of a highly regarded US expert on the subject.

Chinese Americans have already been spit upon, threatened and even beaten up because Americans think that they are responsible for the pandemic.

He never backed it up. He said 'If their case numbers are real'.

that doesn't make what he's saying propaganda, which is what you falsely implied. and false charges of spreading propaganda isn't much better than propaganda itself

It's propaganda when THAT article states "U.S. agencies remain skeptical that the Chinese have the virus under control, the source said." and mislead people to say UNDER CONTROL in China.