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Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1781 » by NecessaryEvil » Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:54 am

Jeffster81 wrote:Yeah, the Bulls have to re-sign Giddey. I like Ball and Jones but neither have Giddeys upside. Can not afford to lose Giddey.


If healthy, Lonzo Ball will help a team win a title one day. I hope that’ll be in Chicago. His IQ is elite just like J Giddey.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1782 » by wolffy » Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:01 am

He's forced the teams hand into paying him. For better or worse he's gonna get paid well.

The team stills needs some luck in the draft
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1783 » by Chi town » Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:02 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
sco wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Huerter has two more years left on his deal. And yeah he is definitely no league minimum player. Neither is Tre Jones. He is get $10 million plus deal this summer. Some team will give him MLE money. Hopefully us.

Huerter has one more year left at $18M. He'd be a good future resign at the MLE or less, but the opportunity cost comes in with him and Jones both making that much vs. our ability to add one, slightly better guy at $30M, but then again, not signing another high impact offensive player will give Matas room to grow.


We definitely cannot keep all these guards. Hopefully we can trade them first assets and not just let them walk though.

You’re right on Huerter. I thought he had two years left. 2026 is gonna be a crucial offseason for us.


I think Ayo or Ball will be moved by next trade deadline.

Tre 3/24 Resigned
Huerter 2/25 (If not moved in big trade)
Giddey 5/165
Coby 5/165
Pat 18M per


Ayo makes 8M with one year left.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1784 » by ThisGuyFawkes » Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:52 am

sco wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
DuallyNoted wrote:
I think Huerter is gonna get paid from a contending team. He has the resume and is killing it in a bigger role here. We went from "get rid of everyone" to "damn we can't keep all our toys" pretty quick.


Huerter has two more years left on his deal. And yeah he is definitely no league minimum player. Neither is Tre Jones. He is get $10 million plus deal this summer. Some team will give him MLE money. Hopefully us.

Huerter has one more year left at $18M. He'd be a good future resign at the MLE or less, but the opportunity cost comes in with him and Jones both making that much vs. our ability to add one, slightly better guy at $30M, but then again, not signing another high impact offensive player will give Matas room to grow.


Is he playing that much better though? Serious question, because I haven't been following as closely after I cancelled my league pass (right after Lavine trade). I know we've been winning, but Huerter is shooting 32% from 3pt in March. Some good games but some real clunkers as well.

Is there another significant way that he impacts games? I wasn't super familiar with him before, but I thought his only plus ability was 3pt shooting. I could be completely ignorant though.

There's no chance that he wouldn't take a vet minimum to stay with a team that gave him a 2nd chance, starter minutes, and seems to be gelling with? I guess he's got more time to improve his stock before the next contract though.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1785 » by WindyCityBorn » Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:21 am

ThisGuyFawkes wrote:
sco wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Huerter has two more years left on his deal. And yeah he is definitely no league minimum player. Neither is Tre Jones. He is get $10 million plus deal this summer. Some team will give him MLE money. Hopefully us.

Huerter has one more year left at $18M. He'd be a good future resign at the MLE or less, but the opportunity cost comes in with him and Jones both making that much vs. our ability to add one, slightly better guy at $30M, but then again, not signing another high impact offensive player will give Matas room to grow.


Is he playing that much better though? Serious question, because I haven't been following as closely after I cancelled my league pass (right after Lavine trade). I know we've been winning, but Huerter is shooting 32% from 3pt in March. Some good games but some real clunkers as well.

Is there another significant way that he impacts games? I wasn't super familiar with him before, but I thought his only plus ability was 3pt shooting. I could be completely ignorant though.

There's no chance that he wouldn't take a vet minimum to stay with a team that gave him a 2nd chance, starter minutes, and seems to be gelling with? I guess he's got more time to improve his stock before the next contract though.


There is no chance in Hell he will take the vet minimum. He is playing well now and will get another very good contract if he keeps it up next season. He won’t even be 30 yet.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1786 » by Muzbar » Sat Mar 29, 2025 10:05 am

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1939D2HVcN/?mibextid=D5vuiz

Worth a watch if you hate Gilbert Arenas.

(Sorry I don't know if I can embed it).
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1787 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 29, 2025 11:40 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:There is no chance in Hell he will take the vet minimum. He is playing well now and will get another very good contract if he keeps it up next season. He won’t even be 30 yet.


I'd say a few things about Huerter's next deal:
1: He has a full year to play and that will heavily influence, too hard to predict now
2: It is highly likely that he will take as much as anyone will pay him whether it be the minimum or the max
3: If the most anyone will pay him is the minimum then we probably won't want him anyway
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1788 » by League Circles » Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:22 pm

Yeah a guy like Huerter could easily range anywhere between vet minimum and like 20 mil/year on his next deal. A bad year including possibly a notable injury? Maybe vet min. A full year of being a successful starter on a pretty good Bulls team? Could be looking at 90+ mil over 4 years. My guess is he'll be a sub -MLE player on his next deal. He's a solid player and projects to be in our rotation next year, but he really doesn't have a single strong leveragable strength as a player or a big weakness to be fair. A very competent NBA player.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1789 » by sco » Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:56 pm

League Circles wrote:Yeah a guy like Huerter could easily range anywhere between vet minimum and like 20 mil/year on his next deal. A bad year including possibly a notable injury? Maybe vet min. A full year of being a successful starter on a pretty good Bulls team? Could be looking at 90+ mil over 4 years. My guess is he'll be a sub -MLE player on his next deal. He's a solid player and projects to be in our rotation next year, but he really doesn't have a single strong leveragable strength as a player or a big weakness to be fair. A very competent NBA player.

If he doesn't start for us next season and score 14ppg with 38% 3pt, I don't see him getting more than the MLE...if he's our 6th man then I see him getting around $10M...If he gets bumped down in our rotation, I could see something closer to the taxpayer MLE (which would be a steal IMO).

IMO, he is a starting level talent, but he's not a prolific scorer, if you are team that needs a glue-guy, passer, decent but not elite 3pt shooter, above average but not elite defender, he's a great 4th option scorer.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1790 » by MrSparkle » Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:17 pm

Few things I really like about Huerter’s game:

1. Open 3P threat (very high)
2. Scrappy
3. Knows how to pass and move off the ball

IMO he’s a $10-14M player. Strus got slightly overpaid, but that’s the ballpark rate for a 3P roleplayer. I would prefer to retain such a player for 10M. But that’s a decision for next year. Still think there should be a play on UFA cap space.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1791 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:15 pm

ThisGuyFawkes wrote:
sco wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Huerter has two more years left on his deal. And yeah he is definitely no league minimum player. Neither is Tre Jones. He is get $10 million plus deal this summer. Some team will give him MLE money. Hopefully us.

Huerter has one more year left at $18M. He'd be a good future resign at the MLE or less, but the opportunity cost comes in with him and Jones both making that much vs. our ability to add one, slightly better guy at $30M, but then again, not signing another high impact offensive player will give Matas room to grow.


Is he playing that much better though? Serious question, because I haven't been following as closely after I cancelled my league pass (right after Lavine trade). I know we've been winning, but Huerter is shooting 32% from 3pt in March. Some good games but some real clunkers as well.

Is there another significant way that he impacts games? I wasn't super familiar with him before, but I thought his only plus ability was 3pt shooting. I could be completely ignorant though.

There's no chance that he wouldn't take a vet minimum to stay with a team that gave him a 2nd chance, starter minutes, and seems to be gelling with? I guess he's got more time to improve his stock before the next contract though.


He is. Raw 3pt percentage undersells him a bit. Huerter and Coby are the only high-volume 3pt shooters on the team playing now, and his ability to move without the ball is something we haven't had in years.

With that said, I'm not sure about using the MLE on him because one-way shooters are volatile and lose most of their value whenever they go into a slump. This happened to Huerter in Sacramento, and he's a bit better on defense than other shooters.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1792 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:18 pm

sco wrote:
League Circles wrote:Yeah a guy like Huerter could easily range anywhere between vet minimum and like 20 mil/year on his next deal. A bad year including possibly a notable injury? Maybe vet min. A full year of being a successful starter on a pretty good Bulls team? Could be looking at 90+ mil over 4 years. My guess is he'll be a sub -MLE player on his next deal. He's a solid player and projects to be in our rotation next year, but he really doesn't have a single strong leveragable strength as a player or a big weakness to be fair. A very competent NBA player.

If he doesn't start for us next season and score 14ppg with 38% 3pt, I don't see him getting more than the MLE...if he's our 6th man then I see him getting around $10M...If he gets bumped down in our rotation, I could see something closer to the taxpayer MLE (which would be a steal IMO).

IMO, he is a starting level talent, but he's not a prolific scorer, if you are team that needs a glue-guy, passer, decent but not elite 3pt shooter, above average but not elite defender, he's a great 4th option scorer.


Calling Huerter an above average defender feels awfully generous.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1793 » by sco » Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:28 pm

dougthonus wrote:
sco wrote:
League Circles wrote:Yeah a guy like Huerter could easily range anywhere between vet minimum and like 20 mil/year on his next deal. A bad year including possibly a notable injury? Maybe vet min. A full year of being a successful starter on a pretty good Bulls team? Could be looking at 90+ mil over 4 years. My guess is he'll be a sub -MLE player on his next deal. He's a solid player and projects to be in our rotation next year, but he really doesn't have a single strong leveragable strength as a player or a big weakness to be fair. A very competent NBA player.

If he doesn't start for us next season and score 14ppg with 38% 3pt, I don't see him getting more than the MLE...if he's our 6th man then I see him getting around $10M...If he gets bumped down in our rotation, I could see something closer to the taxpayer MLE (which would be a steal IMO).

IMO, he is a starting level talent, but he's not a prolific scorer, if you are team that needs a glue-guy, passer, decent but not elite 3pt shooter, above average but not elite defender, he's a great 4th option scorer.


Calling Huerter an above average defender feels awfully generous.

Why? He does a pretty good job out there. He has a high BBIQ and decent size for a wing and moves pretty well. I think his looks impact how people view his skill and athleticism.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1794 » by Chi town » Sat Mar 29, 2025 3:33 pm

Billy loves Huerter due to IQ. Hes said it multiple times. He loves Tre Jones for the same and his competitive spirit and under control pace.

Zo is a high volume 3pt shooter when healthy.
Coby Zo Huerter and Buz is 5 3PA post ASB.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1795 » by dougthonus » Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:33 pm

sco wrote:Why? He does a pretty good job out there. He has a high BBIQ and decent size for a wing and moves pretty well. I think his looks impact how people view his skill and athleticism.


I didn't watch a bunch of the Kings, so maybe it isn't true, but reading about him during the trade made it sound like he was pretty routinely hunted. I'm not sure what your threshold is for "above average", but the things you just described there don't sound like "above average", they sound like "guy who doesn't get killed" or average.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1796 » by kodo » Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:44 pm

Huerter needs to be pretty open to make his 3s, which isn't a criticism that's the vast majority of the NBA. Bulls were just gifted in having some unusual "in your face" 3 shooters in Zach & Coby. With a defender within 2-4', the 3P% ends up being

Huerter: 25%
Lonzo: 21%
Lavine: 42%
Coby: 37%
Buzelis: 44%
Patrick: 11%
Smith: 43% (hilarious he shoots better defended)
Giddey: 75% (very low sample)

If he's going to be a long term starter as in another contract with Chicago, I'd like to see something more than just a wide open 3 shooter. Can be defense, can be iso, just something. Detroit picked up Malik Beasley this season for $6M and he's 38% when tightly defended, 42% overall on 3s. There are good 3 shooters out there, and you don't have to pay a ton. We have a tendency to overvalue someone just because they're currently in a Bulls uniform when a lot of our guys could be replaced in FA very easily. Other than Giddey/Coby/Buzelis, the entire team is easily replaceable.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1797 » by sco » Sat Mar 29, 2025 4:46 pm

dougthonus wrote:
sco wrote:Why? He does a pretty good job out there. He has a high BBIQ and decent size for a wing and moves pretty well. I think his looks impact how people view his skill and athleticism.


I didn't watch a bunch of the Kings, so maybe it isn't true, but reading about him during the trade made it sound like he was pretty routinely hunted. I'm not sure what your threshold is for "above average", but the things you just described there don't sound like "above average", they sound like "guy who doesn't get killed" or average.

I view his defense on par with a guy like Terry. Terry can guard 4's too, but 1-3, I'd say they're similar.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1798 » by WindyCityBorn » Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:48 pm

kodo wrote:Huerter needs to be pretty open to make his 3s, which isn't a criticism that's the vast majority of the NBA. Bulls were just gifted in having some unusual "in your face" 3 shooters in Zach & Coby. With a defender within 2-4', the 3P% ends up being

Huerter: 25%
Lonzo: 21%
Lavine: 42%
Coby: 37%
Buzelis: 44%
Patrick: 11%
Smith: 43% (hilarious he shoots better defended)
Giddey: 75% (very low sample)

If he's going to be a long term starter as in another contract with Chicago, I'd like to see something more than just a wide open 3 shooter. Can be defense, can be iso, just something. Detroit picked up Malik Beasley this season for $6M and he's 38% when tightly defended, 42% overall on 3s. There are good 3 shooters out there, and you don't have to pay a ton. We have a tendency to overvalue someone just because they're currently in a Bulls uniform when a lot of our guys could be replaced in FA very easily. Other than Giddey/Coby/Buzelis, the entire team is easily replaceable.


I don’t Huerter as long starter for is. He is a good 6th or 7th man though. And very solid if he needs to start due to injury.
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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1799 » by Bulliever2020 » Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:21 pm

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Re: Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer 

Post#1800 » by GimmeDat » Sat Mar 29, 2025 10:19 pm

Long time no see for those that remember me.

I haven't been watching many/any games this season, so curious to ask - what do you think Josh has sustainably improved at that he's playing so well right now?

Metric wise, the key things I can see are an improved FTr (and yet his % at the rim this season is equal or worse to previous seasons), obviously the improved 3pt% (will probably never be a true gravity shooter but he can reliably knock down open 3s this season which is a big development, they can't give him the Ben Simmons treatment on this %), etc... and his assist numbers are marginally improved.

I'm assuming these metrics are even more pronounced post-ASG where he's been this tear.

Is he being more aggressive and parking the floater more so he can finish and get to the line? Is he being empowered role wise in a way he wasn't in OKC?

What have been the big differences between pre and post ASG?

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