Houston Coming after Dunleavy, Bulls unwilling to move him

[Ralphb07]

Ariza please

Get me Ariza and a trade for Afflalo, bring over Mirotic and I am a happy with the retool

You're not getting both. I see the offseason going signing Nikola and Granger/Ariza. What I'm stuck on is what route we go with the room mle. Is it on DJ or do they use it on a big like Kaman or Brand and bring Kirk back on the veteran minimum.

G-Rose/Hinrich
G-Butler/Snell
F-Granger or Ariza/Dunleavy
F-Gibson/Nikola
C-Noah/Room MLE

Plus we have those two picks in our pockets.

You have to bring back DJ as insurance. Hinrich as 3rd string PG on vet min deal is fine.

I know we only have room for Niko and 1 free agent like Ariza if we amnesty Booz and move Dunealvy for cap space. However, I thought they were looking at moving Taj to reallocate that money into other spots and draft bigs?

We should be able to sign Nikola and a 4-5 mil wing without giving up Mike. I'd personally go DJ with room MLE and sign a veteran minimum 4th big. Also a lot will depend on who we draft. I think Payne from MSU can be our 4th big from day one. But yeah IMO the Room MLE would go to a PG over the big.

[League Circles]

I don't really see the benefit of Boozer lying. What does he have to gain by lying? Either he'll be amnestied or he won't. It won't change his value or perception around the league.

IMO, Boozer and his agent know that he's a likely amnesty candidate (because the world knows!), and even if it's a long shot, him making a comment that frames the Bulls as not doing it, in his mind, might sway public opinion in his favor against using the amnesty, which, in his mind, might affect the FO. If he is lying, it's a long shot act of desperation from a man who is rightly concerned about his fate. Also, if he is amnestied, watch him bitch and moan and threaten to be a cancer for any team that bids on him, so he can hopefully pass through the bidding process and become a UFA, even though in reality he wouldn't be a cancer if bid on because he's not that kind of guy. Boozer has a proven history of saying what he thinks he needs to say to get what he wants.

I also don't see why the Bulls would lie to him. They're not dicks. They're not going to purposely mislead him.

They have several reasons to lie to him. First and foremost, to maintain his morale while he's still here. Players are often told that the team doesn't expect to trade them, just to make them feel better. Note that he was allegedly told this AFTER he first spoke out about wanting to play over Taj in the 4th. Furthermore, Boozer lied to the Bulls current Director of Basketball Operations Jim Paxson about a major deal when they were both with Cleveland - so it's unlikely that the Bulls FO would have problem reciprocating the lie to get what they want (Boozer not being a problem). Also, the Bulls don't have a problem in general lying. See Gar.

If Boozer and Gibson are both on the roster, Mirotic won't be. He's too valuable to them for them to risk screwing up his development.

I agree, but not because of development. Instead, because Mirotic won't take the MLE most likely. IF he did, and Boozer was kept, I think you'd see Boozer almost exclusively as the backup C, and then units where Mirotic and Taj are the forwards together, with Taj the 3 on D, Mirotic the 4 on D, Taj the 4 on O, and Mirotic the 3 on O.

[League Circles]

I don't think you'll be upset. The Bulls are not dumping him, it needs to be value. We can keep Mike off the bench and still sign Nikola and one of Ray Allen, Trevor Ariza and Danny Granger. All guys I've heard we have interest in.

Ariza please

Get me Ariza and a trade for Afflalo, bring over Mirotic and I am a happy with the retool

You're not getting both. I see the offseason going signing Nikola and Granger/Ariza. What I'm stuck on is what route we go with the room mle. Is it on DJ or do they use it on a big like Kaman or Brand and bring Kirk back on the veteran minimum.

G-Rose/Hinrich
G-Butler/Snell
F-Granger or Ariza/Dunleavy
F-Gibson/Nikola
C-Noah/Room MLE

Plus we have those two picks in our pockets.

This is about what I've been thinking too, but most likely DJ or another point with the room MLE, as you don't get much of a big man for 2.7 mil, plus we will likely draft a C, and Taj can play C. Plus we'll probably have Nazr or another vet min C at the end of the bench.

My most current calculations, where we get Charlotte's pick and ours at their current draft positions, leave us with almost exactly 12 mil in cap space for 2 players, plus the room MLE. If Mirotic takes 7-8, yes we're looking at 4-5 for the second guy. I like the ideas of Granger, Ariza, Allen in those spots. Another name I think would be well worth looking at is Paul Pierce. There's actually about 15 wing players that I'd think will be available for no more than 4-5 mil that could help us. Guys like Mike Miller, Aminu, Vince Carter, Ben Gordon, Caron Butler, etc. Obviously if you want talent at that price it'll often be an older guy, but still worth considering IMO. any other names you're hearing for that role?

[baubo]

Houston is saving it's 1st round picks for possibility of a star. If Chicago says no to a 2nd rounder, my guess is that the deal ended right there. No need to speculate on Motiejunas, Jones, 1st rounder, or anyone else. Morey probably made a probing call, got rejected, and moved on because he wasn't going to give up real assets for a 33yr old journeyman.

Dunleavy is worth way more than the Knicks 2nd round pick and talks have been going on with both teams for a while so it hasn't been a one phone call thing.

You should be a fan long enough to know that "ongoing talks" is mediaspeak for "something has happened at some point in the past." When everyone in the media stated that Houston and Boston had "ongoing talks" about Asik to the Celtics, there were actually no real talk for over a week.

As for Dunleavy's worth, I personally could care less because I'm not really a fan of his game. The Rockets need defense more than offense at this point. I'm simply stating that the Rockets have no chance of giving up real assets for Dunleavy.

In which case, all this speculation is for nothing because based on what I'm reading here, Chicago actually want *somthing decent* for Dunleavy. They may get it from other teams. Highly unlikely from Houston unless something dramatic happens on another trade front.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Houston is saving it's 1st round picks for possibility of a star. If Chicago says no to a 2nd rounder, my guess is that the deal ended right there. No need to speculate on Motiejunas, Jones, 1st rounder, or anyone else. Morey probably made a probing call, got rejected, and moved on because he wasn't going to give up real assets for a 33yr old journeyman.

Dunleavy is worth way more than the Knicks 2nd round pick and talks have been going on with both teams for a while so it hasn't been a one phone call thing.

You should be a fan long enough to know that "ongoing talks" is mediaspeak for "something has happened at some point in the past." When everyone in the media stated that Houston and Boston had "ongoing talks" about Asik to the Celtics, there were actually no real talk for over a week.

As for Dunleavy's worth, I personally could care less because I'm not really a fan of his game. The Rockets need defense more than offense at this point. I'm simply stating that the Rockets have no chance of giving up real assets for Dunleavy.

In which case, all this speculation is for nothing because based on what I'm reading here, Chicago actually want *somthing decent* for Dunleavy. They may get it from other teams. Highly unlikely from Houston unless something dramatic happens on another trade front.

Take it FWIW - but Ralph isn't talking about what he read/heard in published reports.

[Ralphb07]

Houston is saving it's 1st round picks for possibility of a star. If Chicago says no to a 2nd rounder, my guess is that the deal ended right there. No need to speculate on Motiejunas, Jones, 1st rounder, or anyone else. Morey probably made a probing call, got rejected, and moved on because he wasn't going to give up real assets for a 33yr old journeyman.

Dunleavy is worth way more than the Knicks 2nd round pick and talks have been going on with both teams for a while so it hasn't been a one phone call thing.

You should be a fan long enough to know that "ongoing talks" is mediaspeak for "something has happened at some point in the past." When everyone in the media stated that Houston and Boston had "ongoing talks" about Asik to the Celtics, there were actually no real talk for over a week.

As for Dunleavy's worth, I personally could care less because I'm not really a fan of his game. The Rockets need defense more than offense at this point. I'm simply stating that the Rockets have no chance of giving up real assets for Dunleavy.

In which case, all this speculation is for nothing because based on what I'm reading here, Chicago actually want *somthing decent* for Dunleavy. They may get it from other teams. Highly unlikely from Houston unless something dramatic happens on another trade front.

I am not talking about media speak and from what I hear from my connections,talks have been ongoing but no one has budged.

I agree Houston is not going to give in and it's also why they won't land Mike which is fine by me and Bulls fans. Mike fits the Bulls plans which is why they signed him to a two year deal. The Bulls knew before Mike was signed Deng was not back next season.

[Ralphb07]

Ariza please

Get me Ariza and a trade for Afflalo, bring over Mirotic and I am a happy with the retool

You're not getting both. I see the offseason going signing Nikola and Granger/Ariza. What I'm stuck on is what route we go with the room mle. Is it on DJ or do they use it on a big like Kaman or Brand and bring Kirk back on the veteran minimum.

G-Rose/Hinrich
G-Butler/Snell
F-Granger or Ariza/Dunleavy
F-Gibson/Nikola
C-Noah/Room MLE

Plus we have those two picks in our pockets.

This is about what I've been thinking too, but most likely DJ or another point with the room MLE, as you don't get much of a big man for 2.7 mil, plus we will likely draft a C, and Taj can play C. Plus we'll probably have Nazr or another vet min C at the end of the bench.

My most current calculations, where we get Charlotte's pick and ours at their current draft positions, leave us with almost exactly 12 mil in cap space for 2 players, plus the room MLE. If Mirotic takes 7-8, yes we're looking at 4-5 for the second guy. I like the ideas of Granger, Ariza, Allen in those spots. Another name I think would be well worth looking at is Paul Pierce. There's actually about 15 wing players that I'd think will be available for no more than 4-5 mil that could help us. Guys like Mike Miller, Aminu, Vince Carter, Ben Gordon, Caron Butler, etc. Obviously if you want talent at that price it'll often be an older guy, but still worth considering IMO. any other names you're hearing for that role?

Allen, Ariza and Granger have been the only 3 I've heard and of your group they make the most sense. I think Granger is the likely option but that's just my opinion. The Bulls have been in talks (nothing serious) about getting Ariza now for a test run. They think he is an ideal guy for Thibs.

I am paying attention to Granger to see if he stays healthy but also in the 2nd half does he show any signs of pre injured Danny.

In regards to what moves we make Mike Dunleavy clearly fits us going forward off the bench.

[wonderboy2]

I don't think you'll be upset. The Bulls are not dumping him, it needs to be value. We can keep Mike off the bench and still sign Nikola and one of Ray Allen, Trevor Ariza and Danny Granger. All guys I've heard we have interest in.

Ariza please

Get me Ariza and a trade for Afflalo, bring over Mirotic and I am a happy with the retool

You're not getting both. I see the offseason going signing Nikola and Granger/Ariza. What I'm stuck on is what route we go with the room mle. Is it on DJ or do they use it on a big like Kaman or Brand and bring Kirk back on the veteran minimum.

G-Rose/Hinrich
G-Butler/Snell
F-Granger or Ariza/Dunleavy
F-Gibson/Nikola
C-Noah/Room MLE

Plus we have those two picks in our pockets.

It would be a shame if the bulls let go of deng just to get Granger who is done. If its a indiana pacer that I want it is lance stephenson. Trevor Ariza would be fine but hes alittle redundant of butle,but I still like him. I would rather the bulls draft Mcdermott, Hood,Anderson,Harris, and draft Payne as a 4th big. People are really sleeping on Adrian Paye he is going to be a steal if he goes in the late first round.

[mostek]

The Bulls did not know that Deng would not be back, when they signed Dunleavy. They continued extension negotiations well past that point, and later moves were based on Rose missing the season.

[Ralphb07]

Ariza please

Get me Ariza and a trade for Afflalo, bring over Mirotic and I am a happy with the retool

You're not getting both. I see the offseason going signing Nikola and Granger/Ariza. What I'm stuck on is what route we go with the room mle. Is it on DJ or do they use it on a big like Kaman or Brand and bring Kirk back on the veteran minimum.

G-Rose/Hinrich
G-Butler/Snell
F-Granger or Ariza/Dunleavy
F-Gibson/Nikola
C-Noah/Room MLE

Plus we have those two picks in our pockets.

It would be a shame if the bulls let go of deng just to get Granger who is done. If its a indiana pacer that I want it is lance stephenson. Trevor Ariza would be fine but hes alittle redundant of butle,but I still like him. I would rather the bulls draft Mcdermott, Hood,Anderson,Harris, and draft Payne as a 4th big. People are really sleeping on Adrian Paye he is going to be a steal if he goes in the late first round.

The Bulls could still draft those players and bring in Granger/Ariza for stop gaps. I am hearing the Bulls are looking at short deals for guys like 2 years at the most. They could bring in Granger on a 2 year deal for about 4 mil (which is a fair price) and draft a Hood, Harris, Anderson or McDermott. If the young guy proves his worth early we could always deal Mike if needed. Also one of the guys you mention could be ahead of Snell and in the rotation from the get go.

I am with you on Payne and think he fits us like a glove and is a 4th big from day one.

The Bulls need depth and with Rose back we need some veterans to mix in.

[Ralphb07]

The Bulls did not know that Deng would not be back, when they signed Dunleavy. They continued extension negotiations well past that point, and later moves were based on Rose missing the season.

Oh they knew Deng was not returning after this year. The Bulls were just giving this group one more go at it.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

The Bulls did not know that Deng would not be back, when they signed Dunleavy. They continued extension negotiations well past that point, and later moves were based on Rose missing the season.

Those extension talks consisted of offering Deng a 3yr 30 million deal - do you honestly think the FO thought Deng would take that?

[DanTown8587]

The Bulls did not know that Deng would not be back, when they signed Dunleavy. They continued extension negotiations well past that point, and later moves were based on Rose missing the season.

They knew that Deng wouldn't be back. How? Because they knew that they wouldn't offer Deng a contract he'd accept.

[BuffaloBull]

You're not getting both. I see the offseason going signing Nikola and Granger/Ariza. What I'm stuck on is what route we go with the room mle. Is it on DJ or do they use it on a big like Kaman or Brand and bring Kirk back on the veteran minimum.

G-Rose/Hinrich
G-Butler/Snell
F-Granger or Ariza/Dunleavy
F-Gibson/Nikola
C-Noah/Room MLE

Plus we have those two picks in our pockets.

It would be a shame if the bulls let go of deng just to get Granger who is done. If its a indiana pacer that I want it is lance stephenson. Trevor Ariza would be fine but hes alittle redundant of butle,but I still like him. I would rather the bulls draft Mcdermott, Hood,Anderson,Harris, and draft Payne as a 4th big. People are really sleeping on Adrian Paye he is going to be a steal if he goes in the late first round.

The Bulls could still draft those players and bring in Granger/Ariza for stop gaps. I am hearing the Bulls are looking at short deals for guys like 2 years at the most. They could bring in Granger on a 2 year deal for about 4 mil (which is a fair price) and draft a Hood, Harris, Anderson or McDermott. If the young guy proves his worth early we could always deal Mike if needed. Also one of the guys you mention could be ahead of Snell and in the rotation from the get go.

I am with you on Payne and think he fits us like a glove and is a 4th big from day one.

The Bulls need depth and with Rose back we need some veterans to mix in.

Granger's been interesting so far for Indy; he's defending fine, but his touch is gone (shooting terribly from all over the floor). He'll never be the player he was, previously, but as a stopgap guy, he's potentially the best shooter/defender we can get at the 3 if the offseason breaks without adding a major prize.

If the Bulls end up with 2 1st round picks, they will be able to go a lot of different ways based on talent. We just have to see what happens.

[baubo]

I am not talking about media speak and from what I hear from my connections,talks have been ongoing but no one has budged.

I agree Houston is not going to give in and it's also why they won't land Mike which is fine by me and Bulls fans. Mike fits the Bulls plans which is why they signed him to a two year deal. The Bulls knew before Mike was signed Deng was not back next season.

How does that even work if you use some common sense?

Morey: "I give you two cheap contracts and a 2nd for Dunleavy.
Pax: "No. Give me your 1st instead."
Morey: "No, that's okay." Hangs up.

Next day, repeat above.
Next next day, repeat above.
2 weeks later, repeat above.

I would imagine there are better things for NBA GMs who are in charge of their multi-million dollar companies to do than revisit the same trade over and over when neither side would budge, right?

[Evil_Headband]

The Bulls did not know that Deng would not be back, when they signed Dunleavy. They continued extension negotiations well past that point, and later moves were based on Rose missing the season.

Oh they knew Deng was not returning after this year. The Bulls were just giving this group one more go at it.

If they would have won the championship there would have been a lot of fan pressure to keep the team together (more or less, anyway).

[mostek]

Why would anyone believe that the Bulls would trade their starting SF, for future assets, when they currently only have a struggling rookie backing up both wing positions. The only way the Bulls would consider that type of move, is if they were slipping out out playoff position, not when they have been rising, and currently only sit a 1 1/2 games out of 3rd.

I believe the Bulls would make a deal, but only to strengthen their position, and only of it did not negatively impact them financially.

There were no published reports that would support any of the message board speculation. The message board rumors point in the opposite direction, to the published reports, that the Bulls have no intention of tearing the team down. The trade deadline, and draft time, are fun time, but it always leads to rumors, and criticizing non-movement, etc, getting out of hand.

[Chi town]

I personally would rather have Pierce then MDJ or Ariza. I know he's old but he has played for Thibs and he can score. I'd love him as our SF or off the bench for 22MPG for the next two seasons. Him and DJ would really help the scoring on the team. He would also be a great vet for Jimmy and Snell.

I do like Ariza more then MDJ. I think he will sign in that same range as MDJ, prob 4M per. His length and D would be great with Thibs.

[League Circles]

I personally would rather have Pierce then MDJ or Ariza. I know he's old but he has played for Thibs and he can score. I'd love him as our SF or off the bench for 22MPG for the next two seasons. Him and DJ would really help the scoring on the team. He would also be a great vet for Jimmy and Snell.

I do like Ariza more then MDJ. I think he will sign in that same range as MDJ, prob 4M per. His length and D would be great with Thibs.

Why not have all of MDJ, Butler, Pierce/Ariza? That's only three wings including 2 old ones if you have pierce and mdj. Snell and a pick could compete for the 4th wing spot.

[Ralphb07]

I am not talking about media speak and from what I hear from my connections,talks have been ongoing but no one has budged.

I agree Houston is not going to give in and it's also why they won't land Mike which is fine by me and Bulls fans. Mike fits the Bulls plans which is why they signed him to a two year deal. The Bulls knew before Mike was signed Deng was not back next season.

How does that even work if you use some common sense?

Morey: "I give you two cheap contracts and a 2nd for Dunleavy.
Pax: "No. Give me your 1st instead."
Morey: "No, that's okay." Hangs up.

Next day, repeat above.
Next next day, repeat above.
2 weeks later, repeat above.

I would imagine there are better things for NBA GMs who are in charge of their multi-million dollar companies to do than revisit the same trade over and over when neither side would budge, right?

You don't get how the NBA works nor do I have time to explain it to you in full detail but... GM's talk on a daily basis and a lot of what if's happen. They just don't call up and propose a trade off the bat and talks are done.

This is what happen with the Rockets and Bulls. The Rockets have been keeping tabs on Dunleavy for a while and still are. The hope for them is the Bulls really do want to shed money and come the deadline the Bulls give in. In order for that to happen, Houston needs to keep dialogue with them. I do know Houston has a offer on the table for him and the Bulls have a counter. Houston in recent days have checked in on things.