OT: COVID-19 thread #3

[dice]

Here’s that Medicare-for-all study Bernie Sanders keeps bringing up

A single-payer health-care system would save more than 68,000 lives and $450 billion a year, new research shows

All told, the study concludes, a single-payer system akin to Sanders’s plan would slash the nation’s health-care expenditures by 13 percent, or more than $450 billion, each year. Not only that, “ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68,000 lives.”
In their breakdown of the numbers, researchers applied the existing Medicare fee structure across the entire health-care system and found it would save about $100 billion annually. Keep in mind that this basically represents less money going to doctors and hospitals, a major sticking point for medical groups that oppose Medicare-for-all. But those declines would be more than offset by several hundred billions in savings from reduced administrative and billing costs, Galvani and her colleagues estimate. The lack of patient billing under a Medicare-for-all system would also eliminate the roughly $35 billion a year that hospitals now pay to chase down unpaid bills.

The authors estimate an additional $219 billion in savings from reduced “administrative overhead” that the current decentralized system creates, including “the elimination of redundant corporate functions and the truncation of the top-heavy salary architecture of health insurance corporations.” For instance, the plan would replace dozens of health insurance executives, many of whom make well over $20 million a year, with one administrator paid the same salary as the current Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Finally, letting the national Medicare system negotiate pharmaceutical prices would save about $180 billion, according to the analysis.
Add it all up and here’s what you get: a new system that would cost about $3 trillion a year, instead of the $3.5 trillion that is being spent now.
...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/20/lancet-medicare-for-all-study/

To cover the bolded: The US federal government limited executive pay years ago. I believe the highest salary any CEO can get it $1m. Many take much less than that. Their total compensation is usually paid in stock options because it allows them to get taxed at the lower capital gains rate. Those stock options don't come from premium payments. They are paid out of the shareholder pockets in the form of share dilution.

I bring this up because this is a common knowledge type thing. If you eliminate CEO's, you aren't saving $20m. This whole study has to be filled with bad math, half truths and lies just to sell an idea.

In the real world, doctor's offices hate medicare because it pays poorly. Some outright refuse to take it because the compensation level doesn't cover their costs.

https://www.hlc.org/news/more-physicians-no-longer-seeing-medicare-patients/

If everyone was paying at medicare rates, doctors would have to cut seriously into their service or just plain go away. As it stands, the private insurance system subsidizes the medicare system. If this actually happened, you would end up having more customers seeing less doctors with the obvious end result of worse service for most people.

As far as cost, I have no doubt that M4A would be cheaper than our current system on aggregate. That said, employers pay the lion's share of that cost making it very progressive. If you implement a less progressive system for payment, a whole lot of people would see their out of pocket medical expenses go up, not down.

Worse coverage, more money, more dead people (not less).

Again, there are things that could and should be done. Bernie Sanders just shouldn't be involved because I suspect he doesn't even understand that $20m CEO thing.

Why do you keep posting things that are outright lies?

Below is As You Sow's list of the 17 most overpaid CEOs in healthcare industry on the S&P 500:

Leonard Schleifer (Regeneron Pharmaceuticals)
Salary: $26.5 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 215:1
Excess pay: $12.9 million

Brenton Saunders (Allergan)
Salary: $32.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 349:1
Excess pay: $19.4 million

Marc Casper (Thermo Fisher Scientific)
Salary: $22.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 324:1
Excess pay: $7.9 million

Michael Neidorff (Centene Corp)
Salary: $25.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 379:1
Excess pay: $9.7 million

Alex Gorsky (Johnson & Johnson)
Salary: $29.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 452:1
Excess pay: $16.1 million

John Hammergren (McKesson Corp.)
Salary: $18.1 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 473:1
Excess pay: $4.9 million

Ian Read (Pfizer)
Salary: $27.9 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 313:1
Excess pay: $14.3 million

Bruce Broussard (Humana)
Salary: $19.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 344:1
Excess pay: $4.7 million

Miles White (Abbott Laboratories)
Salary: $18.9 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 251:1
Excess pay: $4.9 million

Mark Bertolini (Aetna)
Salary: $18.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 235:1
Excess pay: $4.0 million

Timothy Wentworth (Express Scripts Holding)
Salary: $15.9 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 303:1
Excess pay: $2.5 million

Ludwig Hantson (Alexion Pharmaceuticals)
Salary: $15.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 92:1
Excess pay: $1.9 million

David Taylor (Procter & Gamble)
Salary: $17.4 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 287:1
Excess pay: $4.1 million

Howard Robin (Nektar Therapeutics)
Salary: $18.1 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 91:1
Excess pay: $2.8 million

Milton Johson (HCA Healthcare)
Salary: $17.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 312:1
Excess pay: $2.6 million

Richard Gonzales (AbbVie)
Salary: $22.6 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 144:1
Excess pay: $8.1 million

John Milligan (Gilead Sciences)
Salary: $15.4 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 94:1
Excess pay: $1.8 million

salary in excess of $1 mil is not tax deductible for a firm. consequently, it is COMMON for the base salary to be $1 mil in large corporations. some pay as little as $1 in salary. but there's no rule against paying more than $1 mil in salary

in addition to stock options, as of 10 years ago, median annual bonus was over $2 mil. signing bonuses can run into the tens of millions of dollars. and the top "golden parachutes" are over $100 mil. typical severance is 6-12 months of pay

i have no problem with any of it. my problem is that all income is not taxed at the income tax rate

[bentheredengthat]

I'm over 60, self employed, and I pay about $ 9,600 a year for Kaiser HMO. I pay $25 for a doctor's visit, $10-$15 for prescriptions, and I had a heart procedure a few years ago that only cost me $100.

Thanks for posting that.

I'd like to have that plan. You're basically at 10k min. cost per year.

What is your deductible?

[moorhosj]

Informative article on health care systems, for people that are interested in learning information on the issue:

https://freopp.org/key-findings-from-the-freopp-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-b085f6364057

US ranked 4th.

I’m not saying this information is wrong, but it is certainly biased. It’s author, Avik Roy, has been a political consultant for Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, and Marco Rubio. Again, that doesn’t make him wrong, just that he has a pre-defined position.

It’s not surprising that the think tank he runs gives the US high marks. His whole brand is dedicated to Libertarian/limited government. Even then, his rankings give the US poor scores in “Quality” and “Fiscal Sustainability.” I would argue those are way more important than “Choice” or “Science and Technology” where the US does well.

[coldfish]

To cover the bolded: The US federal government limited executive pay years ago. I believe the highest salary any CEO can get it $1m. Many take much less than that. Their total compensation is usually paid in stock options because it allows them to get taxed at the lower capital gains rate. Those stock options don't come from premium payments. They are paid out of the shareholder pockets in the form of share dilution.

I bring this up because this is a common knowledge type thing. If you eliminate CEO's, you aren't saving $20m. This whole study has to be filled with bad math, half truths and lies just to sell an idea.

In the real world, doctor's offices hate medicare because it pays poorly. Some outright refuse to take it because the compensation level doesn't cover their costs.

https://www.hlc.org/news/more-physicians-no-longer-seeing-medicare-patients/

If everyone was paying at medicare rates, doctors would have to cut seriously into their service or just plain go away. As it stands, the private insurance system subsidizes the medicare system. If this actually happened, you would end up having more customers seeing less doctors with the obvious end result of worse service for most people.

As far as cost, I have no doubt that M4A would be cheaper than our current system on aggregate. That said, employers pay the lion's share of that cost making it very progressive. If you implement a less progressive system for payment, a whole lot of people would see their out of pocket medical expenses go up, not down.

Worse coverage, more money, more dead people (not less).

Again, there are things that could and should be done. Bernie Sanders just shouldn't be involved because I suspect he doesn't even understand that $20m CEO thing.

Why do you keep posting things that are outright lies?

Below is As You Sow's list of the 17 most overpaid CEOs in healthcare industry on the S&P 500:

Spoiler:

Leonard Schleifer (Regeneron Pharmaceuticals)
Salary: $26.5 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 215:1
Excess pay: $12.9 million

Brenton Saunders (Allergan)
Salary: $32.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 349:1
Excess pay: $19.4 million

Marc Casper (Thermo Fisher Scientific)
Salary: $22.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 324:1
Excess pay: $7.9 million

Michael Neidorff (Centene Corp)
Salary: $25.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 379:1
Excess pay: $9.7 million

Alex Gorsky (Johnson & Johnson)
Salary: $29.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 452:1
Excess pay: $16.1 million

John Hammergren (McKesson Corp.)
Salary: $18.1 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 473:1
Excess pay: $4.9 million

Ian Read (Pfizer)
Salary: $27.9 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 313:1
Excess pay: $14.3 million

Bruce Broussard (Humana)
Salary: $19.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 344:1
Excess pay: $4.7 million

Miles White (Abbott Laboratories)
Salary: $18.9 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 251:1
Excess pay: $4.9 million

Mark Bertolini (Aetna)
Salary: $18.8 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 235:1
Excess pay: $4.0 million

Timothy Wentworth (Express Scripts Holding)
Salary: $15.9 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 303:1
Excess pay: $2.5 million

Ludwig Hantson (Alexion Pharmaceuticals)
Salary: $15.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 92:1
Excess pay: $1.9 million

David Taylor (Procter & Gamble)
Salary: $17.4 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 287:1
Excess pay: $4.1 million

Howard Robin (Nektar Therapeutics)
Salary: $18.1 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 91:1
Excess pay: $2.8 million

Milton Johson (HCA Healthcare)
Salary: $17.3 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 312:1
Excess pay: $2.6 million

Richard Gonzales (AbbVie)
Salary: $22.6 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 144:1
Excess pay: $8.1 million

John Milligan (Gilead Sciences)
Salary: $15.4 million
CEO to worker pay ratio: 94:1
Excess pay: $1.8 million

I just googled the first names on your list:
https://www1.salary.com/Leonard-S-Schleifer-M-D-Ph-D-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-REGENERON-PHARMACEUTICALS.html

As President and Chief Executive Officer at REGENERON PHARMACEUTICALS, INC., Leonard S. Schleifer M.D., Ph.D. made $26,520,555 in total compensation. Of this total $1,330,500 was received as a salary, $2,953,710 was received as a bonus, $21,339,913 was received in stock options, $0 was awarded as stock and $896,432 came from other types of compensation. This information is according to proxy statements filed for the 2018 fiscal year.

As Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer at Allergan plc, Brenton L. Saunders made $32,827,377 in total compensation. Of this total $1,232,822 was received as a salary, $8,752,500 was received as a bonus, $0 was received in stock options, $22,682,025 was awarded as stock and $160,030 came from other types of compensation. This information is according to proxy statements filed for the 2017 fiscal year.

As President and Chief Executive Officer at THERMO FISHER SCIENTIFIC INC., Marc N. Casper made $18,607,103 in total compensation. Of this total $1,482,740 was received as a salary, $4,670,630 was received as a bonus, $3,893,298 was received in stock options, $8,005,840 was awarded as stock and $554,595 came from other types of compensation. This information is according to proxy statements filed for the 2018 fiscal year.

I'm going to be polite and not say anything else.

[Dresden]

I'm over 60, self employed, and I pay about $ 9,600 a year for Kaiser HMO. I pay $25 for a doctor's visit, $10-$15 for prescriptions, and I had a heart procedure a few years ago that only cost me $100.

Thanks for posting that.

I'd like to have that plan. You're basically at 10k min. cost per year.

What is your deductible?

no deductible.

[GetBuLLish]

Informative article on health care systems, for people that are interested in learning information on the issue:

https://freopp.org/key-findings-from-the-freopp-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-b085f6364057

US ranked 4th.

I’m not saying this information is wrong, but it is certainly biased. It’s author, Avik Roy, has been a political consultant for Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, and Marco Rubio. Again, that doesn’t make him wrong, just that he has a pre-defined position.

It’s not surprising that the think tank he runs gives the US high marks. His whole brand is dedicated to Libertarian/limited government. Even then, his rankings give the US poor scores in “Quality” and “Fiscal Sustainability.” I would argue those are way more important than “Choice” or “Science and Technology” where the US does well.

Avik Roy is extremely knowledgeable about health care systems across the world. Sure he's a conservative but that doesn't invalidate his positions.

And the fact that he gave low ratings in certain categories for the US health care system undermines any insinuation that he was biased in ranking the US highly overall. And, anyway, the US government is massively involved in our health care system, so it's not exactly clear that he would give our system high grades simply because he advocates limited government.

[GetBuLLish]

This has nothing to do with COVID19 - RB23

[dice]

Informative article on health care systems, for people that are interested in learning information on the issue:

https://freopp.org/key-findings-from-the-freopp-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-b085f6364057

US ranked 4th.

I’m not saying this information is wrong, but it is certainly biased. It’s author, Avik Roy, has been a political consultant for Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, and Marco Rubio. Again, that doesn’t make him wrong, just that he has a pre-defined position.

It’s not surprising that the think tank he runs gives the US high marks. His whole brand is dedicated to Libertarian/limited government. Even then, his rankings give the US poor scores in “Quality” and “Fiscal Sustainability.” I would argue those are way more important than “Choice” or “Science and Technology” where the US does well.

the article he posted is NOT a ranking of health care "systems." it is a ranking of health care INNOVATION. nobody would argue that the USA is a leader in innovation. but other than those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, few would argue against the reality that our SYSTEM sucks balls

and right off the top the headline of the article is misleading. saying that germany, switzerland and the netherlands have "universal private insurance" suggests to the uninformed reader that their systems are ENTIRELY private, which is not true

germany has a multi-payer system (74% public, 26% private, both required of citizens) with private providers that are highly regulated. only 11% of the population receives most of its coverage through private insurance, and you must make $78K or more a year to opt out of the publicly financed "sickness funds" (SHI). only 25% of those who qualify opt out. SHI covers dental care, optometry, preventative services, PT, prescriptions, rehab, medical aids, hospice, maternity care and sick leave

switzerland requires high standards of care, subsidizes low-income households and, as with germany, citizens are required to contribute through both taxes and private insurance. it is optional to pay for supplemental private insurance for non-mandatory services, better hospital accommodations and more physician options

the netherlands also has a multi-payer system. free care for those under 18. their system is managed by the government. most but not all hospitals are privately run. all adults are required to have a basic plan covering GP and hospital visits (can be used at any hospital), some specialist care, medication, maternity care, dietary advice and assistance quitting smoking. the premium? $100 to $120 a month (lower for low income individuals). deductible $450. the average cost of an emergency room visit is $300. a night in the hospital costs $175

[musiqsoulchild]

A great example on the radical, race obsessed ideology taking over the left in this country:

Read on Twitter

If anyone wants to find out more about this insanity, I highly suggest watching/listening to Joe Rogan's podcast with James Lindsay.

Dont do it.

Dont invalidate a real issue with isolated examples.

There are outliers - these outliers DO NOT make the actual story go away. Or invalidate it.

Having a Jesse Smolliet situation does not mean that there is a glaring racial issue in our country. All it means is that a few people in minorities are learning how to weaponize their race now (race card).

Not entirely different than the woman who knew exactly what to say in her 911 call from Central Park.

Again, crying wolf does not apply here. The Wolf has been killing, flogging, slaving, raping, demoralizing, discrimating for a LOOOONGGG time. Its OK to give people the time and space they need to recover from that.

You or I dont get to tell them how long they need to recover from the collective trauma.

[dice]

A great example on the radical, race obsessed ideology taking over the left in this country:

Read on Twitter

If anyone wants to find out more about this insanity, I highly suggest watching/listening to Joe Rogan's podcast with James Lindsay.

damn you're obsessed. the white knight that the white race so desperately needs

[musiqsoulchild]

We're great but it's not possible to be the greatest at everything.

You can't fix these problems overnight. Any major improvements costs us extreme amounts of money to do so which we can't really afford because of the amount of money we're currently borrowing. We have to take small steps at a time. You also need a congress that is proactive at combating all these issues which we currently don't have.

I want to be healthy.

I want to feel like I dont need to be in a job where I am being sexually or racially discriminated against just because I have medical insurance through that job.

I dont need 19 Aircraft Carriers.
I dont need to worry about inflation.

I worry about my health. And my mental health and emotional health as I worry about my physical health.

I am almost 100 Million underinsured Americans. Most of us are healthy. We can take care of our health. We just need to feel the safety net.

Check in on your boy Joe Biden's thoughts on healthcare.

I'm right here with you musiq on our end goal but this is going to be a fight.

And there is a way to win this fight without losing it for the next 60-70 years.

Just the last 4 years there has been untold damage done to the judiciary. So many lifetime appointments made.

We should always rally around super strongly around the anti-Trump candidate.

Biden is the last leg of the Democratic party anyway before it fully becomes the party of all progressives. Democrats always cast a big tent and include.

His VP pick will be telling.

[dice]

I want to be healthy.

I want to feel like I dont need to be in a job where I am being sexually or racially discriminated against just because I have medical insurance through that job.

I dont need 19 Aircraft Carriers.
I dont need to worry about inflation.

I worry about my health. And my mental health and emotional health as I worry about my physical health.

I am almost 100 Million underinsured Americans. Most of us are healthy. We can take care of our health. We just need to feel the safety net.

Check in on your boy Joe Biden's thoughts on healthcare.

I'm right here with you musiq on our end goal but this is going to be a fight.

And there is a way to win this fight without losing it for the next 60-70 years.

Just the last 4 years there has been untold damage done to the judiciary. So many lifetime appointments made.

We should always rally around super strongly around the anti-Trump candidate.

Biden is the last leg of the Democratic party anyway before it fully becomes the party of all progressives. Democrats always cast a big tent and include.

His VP pick will be telling.

in 8 years obama had 2 supreme court, 55 appeals court, 268 district court and 4 international trade judges confirmed. the birther party accused him of "court packing" and blocked so many nominations that trump inherited 71 district vacancies. they also took the unprecedented step of refusing to consider a 3rd supreme court appointment, leaving that seat vacant for a year and handing it to trump. the variety of excuses for that move included "bush only got 2 supreme court appointments", "it's an election year, so the people should decide who they want to make the next appointment" and "he shouldn't get to appoint a liberal to replace a conservative (scalia) and tilt the balance of the court" (the court has leaned conservative for decades). of course, all of those excuses are ridiculous. no president has had a limit placed on his appointments, the people already decided that they wanted obama to make appointments for the 4 years of his second term, he was popular at the END of his second term, and there is no law nor tradition concerning taking into account the ideology of the judge being replaced when considering his/her replacement

in 3.5 years trump has had 2 supreme court, 53 appeals court, 143 district court and 2 international trade judges confirmed, many grossly unqualified. when asked what he would do if another vacancy came up in this election year, mitch mcconnell of course ignored the stated reasoning for denying obama his pick, smiled wryly and said "we'd fill the vacancy"

hillary losing the last election was devastating for progress going forward

obama left office with an approval rating of 57%. the people wanted him to make that supreme court pick. and, of course, the people picked hillary over the donald as well. trump got to make the pick. and another one. he has NEVER had 50% approval, topping out at 49%. every other president since FDR has had at least 66% approval at some point

[dice]

most new daily cases per capita, july 6, population 20M or more:

1 peru
2 USA
3 brazil
4 saudi arabia
5 russia

[musiqsoulchild]

Check in on your boy Joe Biden's thoughts on healthcare.

I'm right here with you musiq on our end goal but this is going to be a fight.

And there is a way to win this fight without losing it for the next 60-70 years.

Just the last 4 years there has been untold damage done to the judiciary. So many lifetime appointments made.

We should always rally around super strongly around the anti-Trump candidate.

Biden is the last leg of the Democratic party anyway before it fully becomes the party of all progressives. Democrats always cast a big tent and include.

His VP pick will be telling.

in 8 years obama had 2 supreme court, 55 appeals court, 268 district court and 4 international trade judges confirmed. the birther party accused him of "court packing" and blocked so many nominations that trump inherited 71 district vacancies. they also took the unprecedented step of refusing to consider a 3rd supreme court appointment, leaving that seat vacant for a year and handing it to trump. the variety of excuses for that move included "bush only got 2 supreme court appointments", "it's an election year, so the people should decide who they want to make the next appointment" and "he shouldn't get to appoint a liberal to replace a conservative (scalia) and tilt the balance of the court" (the court has leaned conservative for decades). of course, all of those excuses are ridiculous. no president has had a limit placed on his appointments, the people already decided that they wanted obama to make appointments for the 4 years of his second term, he was popular at the END of his second term, and there is no law nor tradition concerning taking into account the ideology of the judge being replaced when considering his/her replacement

in 3.5 years trump has had 2 supreme court, 53 appeals court, 143 district court and 2 international trade judges confirmed, many grossly unqualified. when asked what he would do if another vacancy came up in this election year, mitch mcconnell of course ignored the stated reasoning for denying obama his pick, smiled wryly and said "we'd fill the vacancy"

hillary losing the last election was devastating for progress going forward

obama left office with an approval rating of 57%. the people wanted him to make that supreme court pick. and, of course, the people picked hillary over the donald as well. trump got to make the pick. and another one. he has NEVER had 50% approval, topping out at 49%. every other president since FDR has had at least 66% approval at some point

It is stunning to me that so called progressives dont see this.

I say so-called because any action/actions that a progressive takes that gets a Republican ala Trump into power is actually Regressive. And pushes the Progressive agenda back by Decades.

How this is not obvious to people is not clear to me. I think its either a gross misunderstanding of what a person is actually voting for ( You're not just voting for Hillary or Biden - you're voting to keep the progressive agenda alive and realistically feasible soon).

Or, really they were never progressive to begin with anyway.

[DuckIII]

A great example on the radical, race obsessed ideology taking over the left in this country:

Read on Twitter

If anyone wants to find out more about this insanity, I highly suggest watching/listening to Joe Rogan's podcast with James Lindsay.

That’s a great example of something alright.

What does that have to do with COVID 19? Seems pretty random.

[dice]

And there is a way to win this fight without losing it for the next 60-70 years.

Just the last 4 years there has been untold damage done to the judiciary. So many lifetime appointments made.

We should always rally around super strongly around the anti-Trump candidate.

Biden is the last leg of the Democratic party anyway before it fully becomes the party of all progressives. Democrats always cast a big tent and include.

His VP pick will be telling.

in 8 years obama had 2 supreme court, 55 appeals court, 268 district court and 4 international trade judges confirmed. the birther party accused him of "court packing" and blocked so many nominations that trump inherited 71 district vacancies. they also took the unprecedented step of refusing to consider a 3rd supreme court appointment, leaving that seat vacant for a year and handing it to trump. the variety of excuses for that move included "bush only got 2 supreme court appointments", "it's an election year, so the people should decide who they want to make the next appointment" and "he shouldn't get to appoint a liberal to replace a conservative (scalia) and tilt the balance of the court" (the court has leaned conservative for decades). of course, all of those excuses are ridiculous. no president has had a limit placed on his appointments, the people already decided that they wanted obama to make appointments for the 4 years of his second term, he was popular at the END of his second term, and there is no law nor tradition concerning taking into account the ideology of the judge being replaced when considering his/her replacement

in 3.5 years trump has had 2 supreme court, 53 appeals court, 143 district court and 2 international trade judges confirmed, many grossly unqualified. when asked what he would do if another vacancy came up in this election year, mitch mcconnell of course ignored the stated reasoning for denying obama his pick, smiled wryly and said "we'd fill the vacancy"

hillary losing the last election was devastating for progress going forward

obama left office with an approval rating of 57%. the people wanted him to make that supreme court pick. and, of course, the people picked hillary over the donald as well. trump got to make the pick. and another one. he has NEVER had 50% approval, topping out at 49%. every other president since FDR has had at least 66% approval at some point

It is stunning to me that so called progressives dont see this.

I say so-called because any action/actions that a progressive takes that gets a Republican ala Trump into power is actually Regressive. And pushes the Progressive agenda back by Decades.

How this is not obvious to people is not clear to me. I think its either a gross misunderstanding of what a person is actually voting for ( You're not just voting for Hillary or Biden - you're voting to keep the progressive agenda alive and realistically feasible soon).

Or, really they were never progressive to begin with anyway.

as i've noted before, the most progressive legislation was achieved with a moderate, heavily democratic congress. job one is to get democrats elected

[dice]

trump administration considering deporting international students whose colleges choose online instruction in the fall

[musiqsoulchild]

trump administration considering deporting international students whose colleges choose online instruction in the fall

1 Million international students here.

They pay 3 times the State tuition fee, rent out apartments here and then end up as being an overall plus to the GDP.

This doesnt even begin to reconcile the fact that most of these folks have spent their family's lifetime savings to just come here to study.

Not to mention that all of these students could potentially be taking back COVID to places they are from - because Trump's response to Covid has been stellar here.

Stephen Miller and Trump are in full flow.

Lets write in Bernie or sit out this election. Or vote for Biden in a lukewarm fashion

[musiqsoulchild]

most new daily cases per capita, july 6, population 20M or more:

1 peru
2 USA
3 brazil
4 saudi arabia
5 russia

We are keeping some Elite company here.

Bolsanaro just got COVID. This blot on humanity is overseeing the biggest genocide in Brazil without even batting an eyelid.

He is DIRECTLY reponsible for Brazilian deaths. He just refused to close the country for a "minor flu".

[dice]

most new daily cases per capita, july 6, population 20M or more:

1 peru
2 USA
3 brazil
4 saudi arabia
5 russia

We are keeping some Elite company here.

Bolsanaro just got COVID. This blot on humanity is overseeing the biggest genocide in Brazil without even batting an eyelid.

He is DIRECTLY reponsible for Brazilian deaths. He just refused to close the country for a "minor flu".

there's a reason his nickname is "tropical trump"