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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#181 » by jnrjr79 » Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:38 pm

GetBuLLish wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:The world has lost its mind and forgotten its original purpose. Vaccinating everyone is designed to make this disease less dangerous. It never was going to completely prevent disease. Now that everyone vaccinated is at very low risk for severe disease, why are we taking any precautions at all? Why do you need to sit out 10 days if you test positive? With influenza, this was never done and a vaccinated covid patient is similar to an unvaccinated influenza patient. And we don’t go around testing all people for influenza. I suspect that in years past, if we tested for influenza like we test for covid, we would have just as many people out and the whole league would have to shut down.


I agree with most of this, except the underlined part. The covid vaccines were explicitly touted as stopping people from getting infected. This trait was the basis of all the vaccine mandates and, of course, turned out to be completely false.


They were never touted as *completely* preventing disease and the fact that they were 95% effective against alpha was an initial huge shock, when something more like a traditional flu vaccine rate of efficacy had been effective. But given the small initial breakthrough rate, expectations did sort of shift into “the pandemic is over for the vaccinated.”

The thing is, the vaccines remain just as effective as ever against the virus they were designed to stop. What happened is new variants came out - variants against which the virus was not developed. We’re all lucky that the vaccines still make getting infected with these variants not a huge deal for most. I agree it’s frustrating given how hopeful we were when the vaccines were first deployed, though.

The other thing to keep in mind is that something like 2/3 of these athletes testing positive have no symptoms at all. This seems sort of like “if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?” If the vaccines don’t stop you from *testing* positive, but the majority of people who are not tested regularly unless they feel symptoms are going to get COVID and never know it, how much does it matter? As a vaxxed and boosted person, at this point, I realize there’s a decent enough chance I’ve had COVID and never knew it.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#182 » by Dresden » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:09 pm

GetBuLLish wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:The world has lost its mind and forgotten its original purpose. Vaccinating everyone is designed to make this disease less dangerous. It never was going to completely prevent disease. Now that everyone vaccinated is at very low risk for severe disease, why are we taking any precautions at all? Why do you need to sit out 10 days if you test positive? With influenza, this was never done and a vaccinated covid patient is similar to an unvaccinated influenza patient. And we don’t go around testing all people for influenza. I suspect that in years past, if we tested for influenza like we test for covid, we would have just as many people out and the whole league would have to shut down.


I agree with most of this, except the underlined part. The covid vaccines were explicitly touted as stopping people from getting infected. This trait was the basis of all the vaccine mandates and, of course, turned out to be completely false.


The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#183 » by FriedRise » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:42 pm

Tons of postponements. Christmas Day will be interesting for sure, if the league even makes it that far.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#184 » by Clint Eastwood » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:37 pm

Dresden wrote:
GetBuLLish wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:The world has lost its mind and forgotten its original purpose. Vaccinating everyone is designed to make this disease less dangerous. It never was going to completely prevent disease. Now that everyone vaccinated is at very low risk for severe disease, why are we taking any precautions at all? Why do you need to sit out 10 days if you test positive? With influenza, this was never done and a vaccinated covid patient is similar to an unvaccinated influenza patient. And we don’t go around testing all people for influenza. I suspect that in years past, if we tested for influenza like we test for covid, we would have just as many people out and the whole league would have to shut down.


I agree with most of this, except the underlined part. The covid vaccines were explicitly touted as stopping people from getting infected. This trait was the basis of all the vaccine mandates and, of course, turned out to be completely false.


The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.

Lethality in vaccinated people is closer to flu. That is my point. The point of shutdowns was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. That is no longer the issue.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#185 » by kodo » Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:25 pm

Dresden wrote:The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.


And that # was massively mitigated due to above & beyond effort from the medical services. I have had heart surgery and routinely need cardiac imaging. During covid, it takes me 3-4 months to get imaging at any of the nearby hospitals due to the flood of people in their 30s & 40s getting cardiology treatment of some kind from covid.

I'd be curious at what the death toll would be if nobody from covid was allowed to go to an ICU or hospital. That would be a much more realistic gauge of the impact.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#186 » by Dresden » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:31 pm

Clint Eastwood wrote:
Dresden wrote:
GetBuLLish wrote:
I agree with most of this, except the underlined part. The covid vaccines were explicitly touted as stopping people from getting infected. This trait was the basis of all the vaccine mandates and, of course, turned out to be completely false.


The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.

Lethality in vaccinated people is closer to flu. That is my point. The point of shutdowns was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. That is no longer the issue.


You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#187 » by dice » Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:44 am

Dresden wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:
Dresden wrote:
The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.

Lethality in vaccinated people is closer to flu. That is my point. The point of shutdowns was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. That is no longer the issue.


You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications.

and there's a chance it gets a whole lot worse if/when a delta/omicron double whammy hits
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#188 » by dice » Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:45 am

God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#189 » by kdapiton » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:51 am

Dresden wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:
Dresden wrote:
The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.

Lethality in vaccinated people is closer to flu. That is my point. The point of shutdowns was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. That is no longer the issue.


You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?
Spoiler:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications
.


yeah what a bizarre take.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#190 » by dougthonus » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:27 pm

Dresden wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:
Dresden wrote:
The difference between Covid and the flu is the lethality and transmission. You don't have 800,000 deaths in 2 years from the flu, nor does it overwhelm the hospital system- if you did, there likely would be many more restrictions when it was raging.

Lethality in vaccinated people is closer to flu. That is my point. The point of shutdowns was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. That is no longer the issue.


You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications.


It would be interesting to see data around this with some historical reference points to really understand how big this problem is. That data should be readily available, but I've not really been able to see it in a meaningful way that says this is the outcome in terms of procedures delayed, patients turned away, etc...
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#191 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:54 pm

Sp CDC just said Omicron is 73% of current cases. Thats up from the 3% a few days ago by a little and that explains what is happening on all pro sports right now IMHO. I hade a feeling the numbers were a little behind. That being said we should be in good shape going forward.


https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/omicron-sweeps-across-nation-now-73-of-us-covid-19-cases/2712165/
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#192 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:57 pm

Good news about this though is Omicron so far seems to be milder, while still being more infectious. Still I think that pushes us more towards endemic and herd immunity. Maybe not but it feels that way a little. Just pure speculation.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#193 » by Grodoboldo » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:23 pm

Read on Twitter


@KCJHoop: Billy Donovan said he doesn’t think Derrick Jones Jr. will be long-term with his hamstring issue.

Didn't know where to post this.

Maybe we should have a Bulls daily thread or something.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#194 » by Clint Eastwood » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:42 pm

dice wrote:
Dresden wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:Lethality in vaccinated people is closer to flu. That is my point. The point of shutdowns was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. That is no longer the issue.


You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications.

and there's a chance it gets a whole lot worse if/when a delta/omicron double whammy hits

The national case, death and hospitalization rates remain well below those seen last winter, before vaccines were widely available

This from one of those articles.

And yes, we have a surge, but hospitalization rates are down. Originally, shutdowns were to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed. There was concern about ventilator shortage and car companies offering to manufacture ventilators. That is not the case currently with vaccinations widely available. Most patients I currently see are less sick, and i hospitalize a tiny fraction of them compared to last year. I definitely feel a huge swing in cases recently, but many fewer in the elderly, and very few hospitalizable. Now is it possible that some hospitals here and there are getting large volumes of patients currently and admitting enough of them to fill their hospital? Sure. But I work in an area where the worst surge of cases occurred and at its peak last year it was exponentially worse than currently.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#195 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:05 am

Clint Eastwood wrote:
dice wrote:
Dresden wrote:
You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications.

and there's a chance it gets a whole lot worse if/when a delta/omicron double whammy hits

The national case, death and hospitalization rates remain well below those seen last winter, before vaccines were widely available

This from one of those articles.

And yes, we have a surge, but hospitalization rates are down. Originally, shutdowns were to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed. There was concern about ventilator shortage and car companies offering to manufacture ventilators. That is not the case currently with vaccinations widely available. Most patients I currently see are less sick, and i hospitalize a tiny fraction of them compared to last year. I definitely feel a huge swing in cases recently, but many fewer in the elderly, and very few hospitalizable. Now is it possible that some hospitals here and there are getting large volumes of patients currently and admitting enough of them to fill their hospital? Sure. But I work in an area where the worst surge of cases occurred and at its peak last year it was exponentially worse than currently.


Thats good a perspective thank you. I have a completely unfounded belief as there is not enough data available but that Omicron isn't as bad as the original or even the Delta which seemed to mutate to stay a live post vaccine.

Completely unscientific view is that like other major diseases that face vaccine they either mutate to a less harmful more easily spread version or get obliterated more along the lines of smallpox. As I said though I don't know ish just going off what I have speculated.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#196 » by MGB8 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:18 pm

In discussing hospitalizations, a couple things need to be kept in mind:

(1) Hospitals don't have a lot of excess capacity to begin with - local governments generally control the amount of beds available via "certificates of need" or similar processes to keep competition down and profits up (i.e., "regulatory capture"). The target is to run at something like 80-85% of capacity as a general measure. Vaccine mandates leading to layoffs of nurses and other staff have unfortunately stressed the situation even more. And maybe even more unfortunately, the Pandemic hasn't yet caused US Federal and State Governments to revisit those and/or invest in some sort of "surge capacity."

(2) Hospital usage is always seasonal, even outside of a pandemic. Look it up. You get more heart attacks and strokes in winter. Not to mention respiratory diseases leading to hospitalization. Serious depression issues. Etc. You combine that with the fact that when someone is hospitalized for any reason, they get tested for COVID and, at least around my neck of the woods, moved into a "COVID wing/floor/area" if positive. What that means is that the hospitalization numbers that we are seeing are those *with* COVID - but that doesn't tell us what proportion of those hospitalizations are actually caused *by* COVID.

(2a) This is going to be even more problematic as a data-quality issue with Omicron, because of the apparent mildness. At least before, if you looked at the ventilator numbers, you'd have a good idea of the relative severity of the COVID situation in your state / region / etc., because a very large percentage of those folks were clearly from COVID / COVID-related respiratory conditions. Now... we may not know.

(3) We have CRAP data in the US. It's really inexcusable. States don't necessarily de-duplicate positive tests (meaning that if the same person re-tests every couple of days and tests positive 5 times before testing negative, some states report that as 5 cases - and some don't). We don't have good data on mortality "with" vs. "from" COVID because the initial definition that was implemented and used makes virtually no distinction (but some doctors and hospitals do, despite some financial incentive to code anyone who tested positive for COVID within 60 days of death as a "COVID death" even if there are other mortality factors - like drug OD, cancer, car-crash, etc.). And then when COVID cases and deaths are input, some times its reported as an increase for the day even though the inputs are for past days (adjustments due to lag) - but not all data sources actually reflect the date of incident as opposed to the date of data-input. It's maddening, honestly.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#197 » by MGB8 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:23 pm

Right now I think we're all hoping that Omicron does end up as mild as the initial data out of South Africa and other places suggests.

Note that while the vaccines basically produce zero antibody protection against Omicron - with the potential exception of a person who was *recently* boosted with the Moderna booster - Omicron looks mild without any vaccine protection. South Africa is about 26% vaccinated, ahead of the US in Omicron by a month or so, and yet has not had a surge in mortality.

And also, just because the vaccine doesn't provoke a high immediate antibody response does not mean that they don't help other immune-mechanisms, like T-cell immunity. Although that's also unclear. In fact, there's some data out there to suggest that vaccinated may be more at risk for catching Omicron and getting (mildly) sick from it (by prompting a "mismatched" response to Omicron that isn't very effective - i.e., "vaccine induced enhancement"). But that's all very speculative.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#198 » by Dresden » Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:38 pm

MGB8 wrote:Right now I think we're all hoping that Omicron does end up as mild as the initial data out of South Africa and other places suggests.

Note that while the vaccines basically produce zero antibody protection against Omicron - with the potential exception of a person who was *recently* boosted with the Moderna booster - Omicron looks mild without any vaccine protection. South Africa is about 26% vaccinated, ahead of the US in Omicron by a month or so, and yet has not had a surge in mortality.

And also, just because the vaccine doesn't provoke a high immediate antibody response does not mean that they don't help other immune-mechanisms, like T-cell immunity. Although that's also unclear. In fact, there's some data out there to suggest that vaccinated may be more at risk for catching Omicron and getting (mildly) sick from it (by prompting a "mismatched" response to Omicron that isn't very effective - i.e., "vaccine induced enhancement"). But that's all very speculative.


Moderna just released a finding that a booster spikes antibodies to Covid by 37%. There was no word of how long that spike lasts, and they also are not sure what means on a clinical level, but obviously the hope is that it will prevent you from getting infected in the first place, or if you do, the case will be even milder.

There is also the thought to increase their booster to double the current level, which could boost antibodies even more. Apparently that is a decision public health officials will need to make.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#199 » by Dresden » Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:48 pm

Clint Eastwood wrote:
dice wrote:
Dresden wrote:
You don't think hospitals are currently being overwhelmed in some places?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/covid-hospitals-omicron.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-illinois-hospital-capacity-covid-surge-20211217-hnkjacf5vbbepbo3xyl7x24ymu-story.html

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-icu-beds-hospitalizations-pennsylvania-20211217.html

“Our delta surge is ongoing and, in fact, accelerating. And on top of that, we’re going to add an omicron surge,” said Dr. Jacob Lemieux, who monitors variants for a research collaboration led by Harvard Medical School.

“That’s alarming, because our hospitals are already filling up. Staff are fatigued,” leaving limited capacity for a potential crush of COVID-19 cases “from an omicron wave superimposed on a delta surge.”

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/u-s-faces-a-double-coronavirus-surge-as-omicron-variant-advances/

It's not just the players' health that is at stake, it's also all those they might come in contact, including young children who may not be vaccinated, or elderly relatives who are at high risk of complications.

and there's a chance it gets a whole lot worse if/when a delta/omicron double whammy hits

The national case, death and hospitalization rates remain well below those seen last winter, before vaccines were widely available

This from one of those articles.

And yes, we have a surge, but hospitalization rates are down. Originally, shutdowns were to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed. There was concern about ventilator shortage and car companies offering to manufacture ventilators. That is not the case currently with vaccinations widely available. Most patients I currently see are less sick, and i hospitalize a tiny fraction of them compared to last year. I definitely feel a huge swing in cases recently, but many fewer in the elderly, and very few hospitalizable. Now is it possible that some hospitals here and there are getting large volumes of patients currently and admitting enough of them to fill their hospital? Sure. But I work in an area where the worst surge of cases occurred and at its peak last year it was exponentially worse than currently.


I don't know what to say to this. You sound like you are a doctor, so I don't want to dismiss your first hand knowledge. But if you look at the articles I linked to, it says that hospitals are being overwhelmed in Chicago, NY, PHI, and I stopped at those 3- I'm sure there are many other areas, smaller areas with few hospitals, that are facing similar challenges.

And 90% of those being hospitalized right now are unvaccinated. So this is a completely artificial problem- we are doing this to ourselves due to a disasterously poor job of leadership by some politicians, along with unprofessional and irresponsible media personalities who have decided that ratings and political gains are more important than their viewers lives.
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Re: NBA postponed Bulls vs Pistons and Raptors games; Bulls covid topics merged 

Post#200 » by FriedRise » Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:05 pm

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The Raptors are going through it. We play them tomorrow in Chicago, wonder if the game is still on (their last game vs Orlando was postponed).

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