Shams: Bulls extend Vuc (3/60)

[WindyCityBorn]

AK is the worst in the league

Because you wanna tank and he doesn’t?

[WindyCityBorn]

Welcome back, Vuc! 3/60 with 8% raises puts him at about 18.5 M this year, which leaves us room to sign Coby and a starting PG.

Coby is our starting PG. We need a good backup PF/C and high volume 3 point shooting wing.

[bad knees]

I think Vuc's on/off based stats look worse than they are cause of how awesome Drummond was lol. Vuc was still very solid. He manages to make up for his critical flaw of putrid shot challenging by being very good at defensive rebounds, not fouling, and getting deflections. He's def above average offensively, where he's truly multi skilled.

Speaking of Drummond, has anyone seen anything about whether he opted in or out? Somebody tweeted that Nate Duncan said on a podcast that he opted out, but I have seen nothing further.

[WindyCityBorn]

Meh. That's how I would describe this move. They are already punting on the season imo.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Not signing would be punting on the season. Explain how we are better without him next season? We don’t get any extra cap space by letting him walk.

[chefo]

I keep seeing that Vuc is a 3rd option who has had to give up soooo much... which is odd, given that he's been getting more scoring opportunities / touches than either DD or Zach. 3rd year in a row.

Vuc is NOT a third option. Vuc is the one of the Bulls' 3 first option players. Let that sink in for a second. He just no longer produces on O like a first option. And... he's only getting older... and, they extended him for 3 more years at 20 per.

Yeah, that'll work just wonderful. The market for non-D playing C's who're declining already is just 'uuuuge these days.

BTW, Vuc is entering the age where even HOF centers start to see their productivity fall off a cliff. Look'm up. Bigs don't age well into their mid-to-late 30s. Food for thought.

[WindyCityBorn]

i'm kind of shocked at how many people are citing raw stats in favor of vucevic, not just because we've also seen him put up a much worse season in 2021-22, but also because my problem with vucevic is something that i think is glaringly obvious if you spent any amount of time watching the bulls over the past 2.5 years, even if it's not obvious in his individual statistics.

the derozan/lavine/vucevic trio is less than the sum of its parts. that's the problem. there's no multiplier effect from having those three "stars" on the court at the same time, and therefore we have not seen the benefit you might expect from having nikola vucevic on the court as our third best scoring option. (this is borne out by lineup stats. on a team with a +1.3 net rating last season, the three-man lineup of demar/vucevic/lavine had a -0.4 net rating. vucevic/lavine had a -0.2 net rating; derozan/vucevic had a -0.4 net rating.)

spinning vucevic into alternate assets was the easiest path toward trying something different with this team. now, barring an unexpectedly big move or some improbably good modestly priced free agency additions, we're stuck making another run with this thing that doesn't work.

You can spin him into anything if you don’t re-sign him.

[WindyCityBorn]

With little trade interest in Lavine, the tear it down option fizzled away, to the extent it ever existed. We are running it back, which has always been the best option in my view. This is a good first step. The next is to sign a starting PG, using either the MLE or the DPE that we get for Lonzo. Try to recreate the good play that we saw post All Star break last season.

I bet that Coby will go into the waiting game. The Bulls will offer him a three year deal starting at 13 M, which is just over the MLE. He will go looking for something better and likely not find it. But it will take a while.

Why are people so sure we get an exemption for Lonzo? And how much would it be? Probably not enough to sign a good starter.

[WindyCityBorn]

And the people sitting here loving this deal are going to be wondering why we’re 34-48 at the end of the year. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

At least we have out draft pick. Not signing him would lead to an even worse record.

[TheStig]

Say what? Vuc played 25 more games, had a higher per, averaged more rebounds and they shot a very similar efficency. And Vuc's Vorp was much higher and winshare and bpm too. Vuc was better. Now I'd rather have Franz than any of them and Carter has abetter deal but Vuc is better than Wendell Carter. And this is on a team with 2 wings that forget about him.

Everything you named is based on counting stats. Impact stats are all the regressed +/- stuff. Vuc was one of the worst impact stat guys on the team for each of the past two seasons, ie, we always play bad when he plays.

like vorp and bpm and winshare?

[TheStig]

With little trade interest in Lavine, the tear it down option fizzled away, to the extent it ever existed. We are running it back, which has always been the best option in my view. This is a good first step. The next is to sign a starting PG, using either the MLE or the DPE that we get for Lonzo. Try to recreate the good play that we saw post All Star break last season.

I bet that Coby will go into the waiting game. The Bulls will offer him a three year deal starting at 13 M, which is just over the MLE. He will go looking for something better and likely not find it. But it will take a while.

Why are people so sure we get an exemption for Lonzo? And how much would it be? Probably not enough to sign a good starter.

Even if we get one, we're not going into the LT to use it.

[bad knees]

With little trade interest in Lavine, the tear it down option fizzled away, to the extent it ever existed. We are running it back, which has always been the best option in my view. This is a good first step. The next is to sign a starting PG, using either the MLE or the DPE that we get for Lonzo. Try to recreate the good play that we saw post All Star break last season.

I bet that Coby will go into the waiting game. The Bulls will offer him a three year deal starting at 13 M, which is just over the MLE. He will go looking for something better and likely not find it. But it will take a while.

Why are people so sure we get an exemption for Lonzo? And how much would it be? Probably not enough to sign a good starter.

The Bulls will get a DPE if they can convince the league that Lonzo is out for the season. If they get the DPE, it will be half of Lonzo’s salary for the season - about $10.2 M. Here are the details.

http://cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

[WindyCityBorn]

Other aspect of this… cap is making a sizable 10% jump from $123m to 136m.

Anyway, AK is pretty straight-forward in his press conferences. He said Vuc’s a big part of this process. I don’t think he signed him to trade him tomorrow.

Meanwhile his subtle disappointment in Zach was more apparent. I think the asking price is high, but a deal will get done. After the FA dust settles, there will be 2-4 teams left, looking to buy.

It makes no sense to keep Vuc/DeRozan duo and trade Zach for assets. If you trade Zach it should be a complete rebuild.

[MissileMike]

Say what? Vuc played 25 more games, had a higher per, averaged more rebounds and they shot a very similar efficency. And Vuc's Vorp was much higher and winshare and bpm too. Vuc was better. Now I'd rather have Franz than any of them and Carter has abetter deal but Vuc is better than Wendell Carter. And this is on a team with 2 wings that forget about him.

Everything you named is based on counting stats. Impact stats are all the regressed +/- stuff. Vuc was one of the worst impact stat guys on the team for each of the past two seasons, ie, we always play bad when he plays.

like vorp and bpm and winshare?

Yeah I agree that Vuc is better than WCJ, but that's not really setting the bar very high and he's definitely worse than WCJ+Wagner+Pick... This signing seems like a net neutral to me.

[dougthonus]

Say what? Vuc played 25 more games, had a higher per, averaged more rebounds and they shot a very similar efficency. And Vuc's Vorp was much higher and winshare and bpm too. Vuc was better. Now I'd rather have Franz than any of them and Carter has abetter deal but Vuc is better than Wendell Carter. And this is on a team with 2 wings that forget about him.

Everything you named is based on counting stats. Impact stats are all the regressed +/- stuff. Vuc was one of the worst impact stat guys on the team for each of the past two seasons, ie, we always play bad when he plays.

like vorp and bpm and winshare?

Yes?

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I love it. I love Vuc, and don't really understand the hate. Anyone expecting him to be a defensive rim protector had unrealistic expectations. He's never been that in his career. He needs to be paired up with the NBA-ready version of Julian Phillips (or taller DJJ). An athletic PF who can switch, help rebound, and protect the rim.

Vuc is an excellent offensive hub. He always seems to find the cutter for easy shots, but this team hardly ever has anyone cutting. Vuc can play inside with finesse or bully smaller guys. He can shoot at the 3 at a decent clip. He can rebound.

Basically I think he's definitely worth this deal, but he's never been paired with the proper front-court mate and his vision/passing could be better utilized with a heavier motion offense.

He's also extremely dependable and doesn't miss games. I'll take an above average center that plays 30+ mpg with 82 games in a season versus a center that's a tier above him but misses half the season.

Footnote: I'm a Vuc apologist so take this with a grain of salt.

[Bandit King]

Go europax!!

[Daxel]

Welcome back Vuc!

[TheSuzerain]

AK is the worst in the league

Because you wanna tank and he doesn’t?

Because he cashed in all of his assets and created a 10th seed.

That's pretty terrible.

[Tetlak]

A

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

A better player than Vuc

WCJ is just a better player than Vuc on half the contract, so that seems fair.

This take needs to die. There is not a single thing Wendell is better than Vuc at. You can use any statistic in the world. Wendell also plays 50 games per year on average.

[TheStig]

Everything you named is based on counting stats. Impact stats are all the regressed +/- stuff. Vuc was one of the worst impact stat guys on the team for each of the past two seasons, ie, we always play bad when he plays.

like vorp and bpm and winshare?

Yes?

which vuc did better in.....