Bulls vs Heat 7pm CT Apr. 9 2025

[GoBlue72391]

Pros and Cons. Vuc may not be athletic enough but so does Joker, Sengun… its about how you gel with the current core. Vuc stretches the floor, good passer… just look at his number and compare them to any athletic bigs like Gafford, Williams, Carter, Hayes… geez id take Vuc any day. Count your blessings guys!

It's about fit.

Sengun and especially Jokic are galaxies above Vuc offensively so you can deal with their defense. We're building our team around two subpar defenders in Coby and Giddey. A lot of guys are gonna get past them and C is the most important position defensively by far, and Vuc is woeful on that end.

His offense can still be pretty good, but it's not good enough to make up for his defense. If Coby and Giddey were elite defenders it might be a different conversation.

Vuc doesn't fit this team schematically, nor does he fit timeline-wise.

Those other Cs you named will never have Vuc's numbers, but that's not what we need them for.

[GoBlue72391]

I bet he extends him another year at a cheaper rate.

Vuc is gone. He won’t be back past next season.

If he plays like today (looked motivated) and enjoys playing with this youg squad and likes the city, why not as long as his the salary fits?

Are we trying to win or just keep guys we like and have grown attached to?

[RSP83]

Pros and Cons. Vuc may not be athletic enough but so does Joker, Sengun… its about how you gel with the current core. Vuc stretches the floor, good passer… just look at his number and compare them to any athletic bigs like Gafford, Williams, Carter, Hayes… geez id take Vuc any day. Count your blessings guys!

It's about fit.

Sengun and especially Jokic are galaxies above Vuc offensively so you can deal with their defense. We're building our team around two subpar defenders in Coby and Giddey. A lot of guys are gonna get past them and C is the most important position defensively by far, and Vuc is woeful on that end.

His offense can still be pretty good, but it's not good enough to make up for his defense. If Coby and Giddey were elite defenders it might be a different conversation.

Vuc doesn't fit this team schematically, nor does he fit timeline-wise.

Those other Cs you named will never have Vuc's numbers, but that's not what we need them for.

Vuc's fit with this team going forward will be determined by his contract value.

[GoBlue72391]

Pros and Cons. Vuc may not be athletic enough but so does Joker, Sengun… its about how you gel with the current core. Vuc stretches the floor, good passer… just look at his number and compare them to any athletic bigs like Gafford, Williams, Carter, Hayes… geez id take Vuc any day. Count your blessings guys!

It's about fit.

Sengun and especially Jokic are galaxies above Vuc offensively so you can deal with their defense. We're building our team around two subpar defenders in Coby and Giddey. A lot of guys are gonna get past them and C is the most important position defensively by far, and Vuc is woeful on that end.

His offense can still be pretty good, but it's not good enough to make up for his defense. If Coby and Giddey were elite defenders it might be a different conversation.

Vuc doesn't fit this team schematically, nor does he fit timeline-wise.

Those other Cs you named will never have Vuc's numbers, but that's not what we need them for.

Vuc's fit with this team going forward will be determined by his contract value.

If he wants to re-sign for cheap as a 20 mpg backup big, then sure.

[wolffy]

He absolutely cannot stay beyond his contract, and even that is too long. If the team is going to be built around Coby and Giddey you cannot, under any circumstances, have a C like Vuc as the starter.

Then again knowing AKME, who knows, maybe he'll be here til he retires.

I tend to agree but sometimes I wonder what the half court game looks like with a defensive style big instead of Vooch.

There are some line ups Billy puts out there and you look a think Vooch in the post is the best option.

I think that says more about the offensive skills of the players he's sharing the court with than anything positive about Vuc. If a Vuc post up is the best option outside of the occasional mismatch then there's a serious problem.

Vooch ia a legit threat with his post game. But you're right it does say something but of Coby and Josh are both sitting, he's by far the best next offensive player. Now sub him with a defensive big and who does the offense go to?

They need a better offensive option once they get a defensive big, which they definitely need.

[Jello Biafra]

I've watched the game and read all ten pages of comments and I've learned some new things! I never realized that it was so easy to record a triple double in the NBA and that having several of them in rapid succession is no big deal. Apparently, there have been 146 recorded in the NBA this season and there have only been 2,390 games played. So there is a triple double recorded 6 out of every 100 games. Not a remarkable skill. Everyone's doing it all the time.

Further, I've learned Giddey's extreme lack of athleticism will knee cap the Bulls going forward. The fact that he can't run fast will surely slow down the Bulls desire to be a high tempo offense. His lack of burst means he will never blow by his defender and get to the paint. His inability to jump and the fact that he plays below the rim surely means that his rebounding is merely a mirage and unlikely to continue.

I've learned that the worst thing we could do would be do extend him to a contract like Jalen Suggs as it would hamstring the Bulls capspace and prevent them from signing or drafting a real star. Finally, it would have been best for the franchise if he never went on this run because the Bulls have moved up two spaces in the draft odds costing their odds to get the number one pick to drop by 1.5%.

[eierluke]

If Giddey is said to be unathletic, then we need to re-define that term. There are a lot of ways of being athletic besides pumping iron, jumping high, and winning sprints, and Giddey is exceptional at pretty much all those other things. He's damned athletic, just not in an Obi Toppin way.

In what ways is he athletic? Traditionally, athleticism has been defined by speed, explosion, leaping ability, agility, lateral quickness, strength, etc.

He seems woefully subpar in most, if not all of those categories, but for the most part he's able to overcome his athletic shortcomings with his craftiness, basketball IQ, size, etc.

He is someone that I would definitely classify as unathletic by NBA standards, but he's able to be successful in spite of that so I'm not too concerned about it. Compared to an average man? Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with us athletically.

I mean sure, if you want to create a new definition of "athletic" so it applies to Giddey, go for it.

One of the best players ever, Larry Bird wasn't an outstanding athlete (though he wasn't unathletic eiter). Much of his sucess was based on what he had between his ears (beeing 6'9 helped as well;)

[jnrjr79]

If Giddey is said to be unathletic, then we need to re-define that term. There are a lot of ways of being athletic besides pumping iron, jumping high, and winning sprints, and Giddey is exceptional at pretty much all those other things. He's damned athletic, just not in an Obi Toppin way.

In what ways is he athletic? Traditionally, athleticism has been defined by speed, explosion, leaping ability, agility, lateral quickness, strength, etc.

He seems woefully subpar in most, if not all of those categories, but for the most part he's able to overcome his athletic shortcomings with his craftiness, basketball IQ, size, etc.

He is someone that I would definitely classify as unathletic by NBA standards, but he's able to be successful in spite of that so I'm not too concerned about it. Compared to an average man? Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with us athletically.

I mean sure, if you want to create a new definition of "athletic" so it applies to Giddey, go for it.

One of the best players ever, Larry Bird wasn't an outstanding athlete (though he wasn't unathletic eiter). Much of his sucess was based on what he had between his ears (beeing 6'9 helped as well;)

Heck, the best player in the NBA right now isn't particularly athletic.

[GoBlue72391]

I've watched the game and read all ten pages of comments and I've learned some new things! I never realized that it was so easy to record a triple double in the NBA and that having several of them in rapid succession is no big deal. Apparently, there have been 146 recorded in the NBA this season and there have only been 2,390 games played. So there is a triple double recorded 6 out of every 100 games. Not a remarkable skill. Everyone's doing it all the time.

Way to take what I said and completely contort it.

League wide triple doubles have more than tripled in the last decade. It used to be a big deal when it happened on the rare occasion, not so much anymore. It's less rare and therefore less impressive, though it still is impressive. There was a time when 3 pointers were rare and therefore impressive. I wasn't even talking about Giddey, I was talking about the state of the league in general and even made sure to prop him up before I said that.

Further, I've learned Giddey's extreme lack of athleticism will knee cap the Bulls going forward. The fact that he can't run fast will surely slow down the Bulls desire to be a high tempo offense. His lack of burst means he will never blow by his defender and get to the paint. His inability to jump and the fact that he plays below the rim surely means that his rebounding is merely a mirage and unlikely to continue.

Yeah, I didn't say anything remotely like that. He's unathletic by NBA standards by still has success in spite of it. So do Luka and Jokic.

By the way, you can just @ me next time, especially if you're going to twist and take everything i say out of context. At least NecessaryEvil called me out directly.

[FriedRise]

If Giddey is said to be unathletic, then we need to re-define that term. There are a lot of ways of being athletic besides pumping iron, jumping high, and winning sprints, and Giddey is exceptional at pretty much all those other things. He's damned athletic, just not in an Obi Toppin way.

In what ways is he athletic? Traditionally, athleticism has been defined by speed, explosion, leaping ability, agility, lateral quickness, strength, etc.

He seems woefully subpar in most, if not all of those categories, but for the most part he's able to overcome his athletic shortcomings with his craftiness, basketball IQ, size, etc.

He is someone that I would definitely classify as unathletic by NBA standards, but he's able to be successful in spite of that so I'm not too concerned about it. Compared to an average man? Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with us athletically.

I mean sure, if you want to create a new definition of "athletic" so it applies to Giddey, go for it.

Giddey's athleticism reminds me of Luka's. Not the fastest player or the highest leaper, but super crafty and such a smart player they know how to get by anybody even if their defender is faster/bigger than them. Sometimes all you need is just a little space, so it's not just about getting to the rim the quickest. You can shake off your by changing up your speed, hesitating, and being unpredictable. Helps that he's 6'8 too.

[GoBlue72391]

If Giddey is said to be unathletic, then we need to re-define that term. There are a lot of ways of being athletic besides pumping iron, jumping high, and winning sprints, and Giddey is exceptional at pretty much all those other things. He's damned athletic, just not in an Obi Toppin way.

In what ways is he athletic? Traditionally, athleticism has been defined by speed, explosion, leaping ability, agility, lateral quickness, strength, etc.

He seems woefully subpar in most, if not all of those categories, but for the most part he's able to overcome his athletic shortcomings with his craftiness, basketball IQ, size, etc.

He is someone that I would definitely classify as unathletic by NBA standards, but he's able to be successful in spite of that so I'm not too concerned about it. Compared to an average man? Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with us athletically.

I mean sure, if you want to create a new definition of "athletic" so it applies to Giddey, go for it.

One of the best players ever, Larry Bird wasn't an outstanding athlete (though he wasn't unathletic eiter). Much of his sucess was based on what he had between his ears (beeing 6'9 helped as well;)

Yeah, absolutely. You don't need to be an athletic freak to be successful. The best player in the league right now is a chubby unathletic dude.

I just don't understand the logic of pretending a player is athletic when he's not.

[GoBlue72391]

If Giddey is said to be unathletic, then we need to re-define that term. There are a lot of ways of being athletic besides pumping iron, jumping high, and winning sprints, and Giddey is exceptional at pretty much all those other things. He's damned athletic, just not in an Obi Toppin way.

In what ways is he athletic? Traditionally, athleticism has been defined by speed, explosion, leaping ability, agility, lateral quickness, strength, etc.

He seems woefully subpar in most, if not all of those categories, but for the most part he's able to overcome his athletic shortcomings with his craftiness, basketball IQ, size, etc.

He is someone that I would definitely classify as unathletic by NBA standards, but he's able to be successful in spite of that so I'm not too concerned about it. Compared to an average man? Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with us athletically.

I mean sure, if you want to create a new definition of "athletic" so it applies to Giddey, go for it.

Giddey's athleticism reminds me of Luka's. Not the fastest player or the highest leaper, but super crafty and such a smart player they know how to get by anybody even if their defender is faster/bigger than them. Sometimes all you need is just a little space, so it's not just about getting to the rim the quickest. You can shake off your by changing up your speed, hesitating, and being unpredictable. Helps that he's 6'8 too.

I agree with you, but being crafty and smart, by definition, is not athleticism.

[Jello Biafra]

I've watched the game and read all ten pages of comments and I've learned some new things! I never realized that it was so easy to record a triple double in the NBA and that having several of them in rapid succession is no big deal. Apparently, there have been 146 recorded in the NBA this season and there have only been 2,390 games played. So there is a triple double recorded 6 out of every 100 games. Not a remarkable skill. Everyone's doing it all the time.

Way to take what I said and completely contort it.

League wide triple doubles have more than tripled in the last decade. It used to be a big deal when it happened on the rare occasion, not so much anymore. It's less rare and therefore less impressive, though it still is impressive. There was a time when 3 pointers were rare and therefore impressive. I wasn't even talking about Giddey, I was talking about the state of the league in general and even made sure to prop him up before I said that.

Further, I've learned Giddey's extreme lack of athleticism will knee cap the Bulls going forward. The fact that he can't run fast will surely slow down the Bulls desire to be a high tempo offense. His lack of burst means he will never blow by his defender and get to the paint. His inability to jump and the fact that he plays below the rim surely means that his rebounding is merely a mirage and unlikely to continue.

Yeah, I didn't say anything remotely like that. He's unathletic by NBA standards by still has success in spite of it. So do Luka and Jokic.

By the way, you can just @ me next time, especially if you're going to twist and take everything i say out of context. At least NecessaryEvil called me out directly.

You were trolling the board. Take pride in the fact that you got me to take the bait.

[GoBlue72391]

I've watched the game and read all ten pages of comments and I've learned some new things! I never realized that it was so easy to record a triple double in the NBA and that having several of them in rapid succession is no big deal. Apparently, there have been 146 recorded in the NBA this season and there have only been 2,390 games played. So there is a triple double recorded 6 out of every 100 games. Not a remarkable skill. Everyone's doing it all the time.

Way to take what I said and completely contort it.

League wide triple doubles have more than tripled in the last decade. It used to be a big deal when it happened on the rare occasion, not so much anymore. It's less rare and therefore less impressive, though it still is impressive. There was a time when 3 pointers were rare and therefore impressive. I wasn't even talking about Giddey, I was talking about the state of the league in general and even made sure to prop him up before I said that.

Further, I've learned Giddey's extreme lack of athleticism will knee cap the Bulls going forward. The fact that he can't run fast will surely slow down the Bulls desire to be a high tempo offense. His lack of burst means he will never blow by his defender and get to the paint. His inability to jump and the fact that he plays below the rim surely means that his rebounding is merely a mirage and unlikely to continue.

Yeah, I didn't say anything remotely like that. He's unathletic by NBA standards by still has success in spite of it. So do Luka and Jokic.

By the way, you can just @ me next time, especially if you're going to twist and take everything i say out of context. At least NecessaryEvil called me out directly.

You were trolling the board. Take pride in the fact that you got me to take the bait.

How was I trolling? I've never been a troll.

I shared my opinion and supported my reasoning with facts and reasonable conclusions. If that hurt your feelings to the point where you view me sharing my opinion as trolling then that's a you problem.

Feel free to disagree with me, but call me out directly if you have a problem with me, or contact a mod if you think I'm trolling the board.

[Ice Man]

In what ways is he athletic?

1) Unusually agile & nimble for his height. To cite two examples, Harrison Barnes & Andrew Wiggins are upright robots, whereas Josh is the opposite.
2) Excellent balance, which lets him lean into defenders while dribbling at high speed.
3) Strong core, which gives ooomph to that lean.

I'm sure I'm missing other attributes. There must be reasons besides "awareness" why he averages more rebounds per 36 than most NBA #4s.

[WindyCityBorn]

Pros and Cons. Vuc may not be athletic enough but so does Joker, Sengun… its about how you gel with the current core. Vuc stretches the floor, good passer… just look at his number and compare them to any athletic bigs like Gafford, Williams, Carter, Hayes… geez id take Vuc any day. Count your blessings guys!

It's about fit.

Sengun and especially Jokic are galaxies above Vuc offensively so you can deal with their defense. We're building our team around two subpar defenders in Coby and Giddey. A lot of guys are gonna get past them and C is the most important position defensively by far, and Vuc is woeful on that end.

His offense can still be pretty good, but it's not good enough to make up for his defense. If Coby and Giddey were elite defenders it might be a different conversation.

Vuc doesn't fit this team schematically, nor does he fit timeline-wise.

Those other Cs you named will never have Vuc's numbers, but that's not what we need them for.

Vuc's fit with this team going forward will be determined by his contract value.

We will never contend with his defense. He needs to go. Don’t think he would want to come off the bench either.

[GoBlue72391]

In what ways is he athletic?

1) Unusually agile & nimble for his height. To cite two examples, Harrison Barnes & Andrew Wiggins are upright robots, whereas Josh is the opposite.
2) Excellent balance, which lets him lean into defenders while dribbling at high speed.
3) Strong core, which gives ooomph to that lean.

I'm sure I'm missing other attributes. There must be reasons besides "awareness" why he averages more rebounds per 36 than most NBA #4s.

1) fair
2) isn't that basically the same thing as 1?
3) maybe. I don't know enough about core strength to comment one way or another

I wasn't talking about rebounding, but I'm sure being 6'8", smart, and having a motor helps on the boards.

I attribute his driving/slashing primarily due to size, IQ, and craftiness, which I think is more or less another way of saying the same thing you're saying with nimbleness/balance.

Point is, I don't think Giddey checks many boxes when it comes to traditional views on athleticism, but that's not a knock on him because he, and other great players, have success in spite of that.

[Ice Man]

Fair enough. I guess my argument that the notion of "traditional athleticism" needs adjusting, as it's too focused on strength, hops, and speed, and not enough on agility, balance, & motor. Thus, I would say that Steph & Jimmy are better NBA athletes than Harrison Barnes and Andrew Wiggins, although the traditional definitions say otherwise.

Although as with the traditional definition, I would put LeBron and Wemby off the chart!

[sco]

If Giddey is said to be unathletic, then we need to re-define that term. There are a lot of ways of being athletic besides pumping iron, jumping high, and winning sprints, and Giddey is exceptional at pretty much all those other things. He's damned athletic, just not in an Obi Toppin way.

In what ways is he athletic? Traditionally, athleticism has been defined by speed, explosion, leaping ability, agility, lateral quickness, strength, etc.

He seems woefully subpar in most, if not all of those categories, but for the most part he's able to overcome his athletic shortcomings with his craftiness, basketball IQ, size, etc.

He is someone that I would definitely classify as unathletic by NBA standards, but he's able to be successful in spite of that so I'm not too concerned about it. Compared to an average man? Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with us athletically.

I mean sure, if you want to create a new definition of "athletic" so it applies to Giddey, go for it.

Giddey's athleticism reminds me of Luka's. Not the fastest player or the highest leaper, but super crafty and such a smart player they know how to get by anybody even if their defender is faster/bigger than them. Sometimes all you need is just a little space, so it's not just about getting to the rim the quickest. You can shake off your by changing up your speed, hesitating, and being unpredictable. Helps that he's 6'8 too.

Offensive greatness is about 2 main things...separation and scoring. "Athleticim" is a way many guys get separation, so is height/length, but so is BBIQ/craftiness...Giddey understands defender movements and anticipates where openings are going to be at an elite level. He also knows how to gain advantage over smaller defenders when attacking the basket. He also adds elite coordination that results in him making some difficult shots in the paint.

[CROBulls]

Giddey is faster than Luka is today, less skilled (crafty), but more faster. Giddey is playing like 2022 Luka. Not fat, in shape, more attacking basket. Just go watch highlights of Luka from few years, completely different guy. He is now more skilled, but he settles a lot more for jumpshot than he used to, he could actually get past by guys.

I can see why Nico Williams was like that's not same guy this franchise invested when we drafted him (despite making Finals year before). You can basically see why Nico had view that Luka is not in shape.

So if you want Giddey extension talks done, maybe put in contract, keep conditioning up and weight below __.