The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[Tetlak]

I feel like at this point, Kevin Martin is very similar to Bulls version Rip Hamilton. Not only in his game, but in hos injury history. Very injury prone, just like Rip. Martin is clearly better, and would be a good fit, but I am a bit hesitant to add him to the squad. He only makes about 7 mil a year, but there is a good possibility he misses anywhere from 0-30 games a year. Hes only played 70+ games in 4 out of 10 full seasons. In the lockout year, he missed 20 some games as well.

First world problems though when youre being forced to take back an efficient 20+ ppg scoring SG on a decent contract.

[GimmeDat]

I feel like at this point, Kevin Martin is very similar to Bulls version Rip Hamilton. Not only in his game, but in hos injury history. Very injury prone, just like Rip. Martin is clearly better, and would be a good fit, but I am a bit hesitant to add him to the squad. He only makes about 7 mil a year, but there is a good possibility he misses anywhere from 0-30 games a year. Hes only played 70+ games in 4 out of 10 full seasons. In the lockout year, he missed 20 some games as well.

First world problems though when youre being forced to take back an efficient 20+ ppg scoring SG on a decent contract.

He's definitely an asset, especially on that contract. I get the comparison in terms of being injury prone due to the slight frame, but as you said, Martin is just far superior a player.

He could start at the 2 and be our 3rd option behind Love and Rose, and he'd be an exceptional 3rd option.

[tony36]

You guys are seriously undervaluing Gibson here. He is an elite defensive player and can score as well. I do not see Love's value at anymore than Gibson + 16 +19. You start adding everything we have and you turn us into the Timberwolves who give up 104 points a freakin game.

Screw Minny. They have no leverage anyway. If they want to trade him to a team he won't sign with let them. You don't give up all your assets for a guy who can't play both sides of the floor. If it was Lebron I'd say sure. But Kevin Love is not Lebron James.

You are seriously overvaluing Gibson and seriously undervaluing Love.

Gibson is a good role player.

Love is a superstar.

That is a joke of an offer and not even remotely close to enough value for Love. Even if Love stated he hated the Wolves, and the Celtics, Warriors, Kings, and Lakers said they no longer have any interest in Love, that would not be close to enough.

[BullsFTW]

Love will definitely be an excellent Plan B.

CHI Gets: Love, Martin, & Brewer
MIN Gets: Boozer, Taj, Jimmy, Mirotic, & 16th Pick

F Brewer/Dunleavy
F Love/19th Pick
C Noah/Smith
G Martin/Snell
G Rose/Hinrich

I like that team a lot.

[kuly1990]

You guys are seriously undervaluing Gibson here. He is an elite defensive player and can score as well. I do not see Love's value at anymore than Gibson + 16 +19. You start adding everything we have and you turn us into the Timberwolves who give up 104 points a freakin game.

Screw Minny. They have no leverage anyway. If they want to trade him to a team he won't sign with let them. You don't give up all your assets for a guy who can't play both sides of the floor. If it was Lebron I'd say sure. But Kevin Love is not Lebron James.

You are seriously overvaluing Gibson and seriously undervaluing Love.

Gibson is a good role player.

Love is a superstar.

That is a joke of an offer and not even remotely close to enough value for Love. Even if Love stated he hated the Wolves, and the Celtics, Warriors, Kings, and Lakers said they no longer have any interest in Love, that would not be close to enough.

What does Love give us over Gibson, three point shooting, and better rebounding, he is no superstar, superstars can create their shoot, he is uber role player, Taj can score in post much better than Love, he is not good rebounder as Love,, but he is decent, he is so much better defender, to give not only Gibson picks, and also Butler is way too much, the most i would give for Love is Boozer, Mirotic(who we dont need if we have Love) and picks...
for first time i agree with Friedell, that Melo should be our first choice to go for, and i really hope that we dont overpay for Love, if we can get him with our offer, than dont go for him, go other way...

[johnnyvann840]

Hello Bulls fans. What you guys think about this deal ?

Gibson + C.Boozer + Butler + 16th + 19th - Minnesota (around 26 M$)

for K.Love + C.Budinger + K.Martin - Bulls (around 26 M$)

lol done deal easy decision for us

Rose/Kirk
KMart/MLE
Budinger/Dun/2nd rounder
Love/Mirotic
Noah/Vet Min

That is a contending team, the 3 pt shooting could be top notch, but I started looking at games played the last several seasons and MY GOODNESS, we would be asking for lightning in a bottle for a title chance. This is like the all time, all injury prone team. I would be VERY worried about the D as well. Chase can be a good defender under Thibs.... a lot hinges on Rose's lateral movement and D returning to at least 2011 levels. Love would also have to buy in and be way better than Boozer on D. We are losing Jimmy and Taj.. Jo may have won DPOY but those two guys were also the heart of the D for a good part of the time.

What I mean by all time all injury ...

Between Rose and Kirk, we better have one HELL of a 3rd string PG, cause they will likely be playing.

K-Mart has played in about half his teams games since 2008

Bud is coming off a major injury... I've always liked him as a player though... going back to his U of A days.

Love has missed almost 100 games the last three seasons.

Jo- Hopefully his PF is behind him as a hindrance but he has been hurt now in the playoffs almost every year.

And this team is really great looking on paper but the odds of a healthy season are stacked against them astronomically.

[GimmeDat]

You guys are seriously undervaluing Gibson here. He is an elite defensive player and can score as well. I do not see Love's value at anymore than Gibson + 16 +19. You start adding everything we have and you turn us into the Timberwolves who give up 104 points a freakin game.

Screw Minny. They have no leverage anyway. If they want to trade him to a team he won't sign with let them. You don't give up all your assets for a guy who can't play both sides of the floor. If it was Lebron I'd say sure. But Kevin Love is not Lebron James.

You are seriously overvaluing Gibson and seriously undervaluing Love.

Gibson is a good role player.

Love is a superstar.

That is a joke of an offer and not even remotely close to enough value for Love. Even if Love stated he hated the Wolves, and the Celtics, Warriors, Kings, and Lakers said they no longer have any interest in Love, that would not be close to enough.

What does Love give us over Gibson, three point shooting, and better rebounding, he is no superstar, superstars can create their shoot, he is uber role player, Taj can score in post much better than Love, he is not good rebounder as Love,, but he is decent, he is so much better defender, to give not only Gibson picks, and also Butler is way too much, the most i would give for Love is Boozer, Mirotic(who we dont need if we have Love) and picks...
for first time i agree with Friedell, that Melo should be our first choice to go for, and i really hope that we dont overpay for Love, if we can get him with our offer, than dont go for him, go other way...

Uber role player? Let's be real, this guy put up 26 and 13 this season.

[johnnyvann840]

You guys are seriously undervaluing Gibson here. He is an elite defensive player and can score as well. I do not see Love's value at anymore than Gibson + 16 +19. You start adding everything we have and you turn us into the Timberwolves who give up 104 points a freakin game.

Screw Minny. They have no leverage anyway. If they want to trade him to a team he won't sign with let them. You don't give up all your assets for a guy who can't play both sides of the floor. If it was Lebron I'd say sure. But Kevin Love is not Lebron James.

I agree with you...in Feb, Love wont be worth anything near what we are offering now. Butler, Taj, Mirotic and picks....

This is the other thing I'm tired of hearing. Where, exactly, has anyone said we are offering Gibson, Mirotic, all our picks and Butler for Love? Because that is the worst trade in history. I wouldn't offer that even if he was already signed for 5 years at 15 million dollars.

Seriously, I'm about tired of these Lebron James offers for Kevin Love. Here's what I'd offer them and tell them to stick it if they don't want it:

Boozer, Mirotic, #16 + #19 and possibly the Sac pick. He is not worth more than that. I'm sorry but the guy is way over rated.

Finally, has no one learned their lesson from recent trades? What happened to NYK when they gutted their team for Melo? How about the Lakers when they traded for Howard? Granted, Bynum turned into garbage but look at the package they had to put together to get him only to miss the playoffs. And look also at the Wolves who have never made the playoffs with Love on the team. Never.Really? Joakim Noah led us to more wins than Kevin Love. I'll keep our picks and Mirotic before I send out the farm to get Love. I like our team and we are not far away from being contenders. If Rose comes back liek Rose, we already are contenders. We don't even need Love nor Melo. But, if I had to choose between those two, I'm taking Melo every time. He fits our team way better and we won't have to destroy our identity as a defensive team to get him.

and I'm not even a Melo fan.. but if the Bulls are going to make a big splash, I think we have a better chance of contending this way.. the other thing that gets undervalued is the relative durability of guys like Taj and Melo and even Jimmy when it comes to playing through injuries and just generally playing in a large majority of games.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Taj, Mirotic, R.Brewer+16th & 19th pick+kings pick for K.Love and K.Mart or C. Brewer. Take it or leave it

If Mirotic says he'll play for Minnesota then we basically gave them a top 5 pick.

Rose
K.Mart
Butler
Love
Noah

If they deny that trade then go after Melo and keep Taj, Mirotic & possibly our picks

Rose
Butler
Melo
Taj, Mirotic
Noah

[mysticbb]

for first time i agree with Friedell, that Melo should be our first choice to go for, and i really hope that we dont overpay for Love, if we can get him with our offer, than dont go for him, go other way...

Yeah, if I have the choice the between a 30yr old 27.4/8.1/3.1 at 56 TS% in 39 mpg guy and a 26yr old 26.1/12.5/4.4 at 59 TS% in 36 mpg guy, obviously the top choice should be the older player. :roll:

[mysticbb]

Taj, Mirotic, R.Brewer+16th & 19th pick+kings pick for K.Love and K.Mart or C. Brewer. Take it or leave it

There are two ways to make an offer to the T-Wolves for Love, which should both be better in terms of accomplishing the ideas of the T-Wolves better than any other team can offer:

1. Gibson+Butler+Snell+future Bulls 1st for Love, and then unguaranteed contracts for C. Brewer. That works after the July moratorium. Timberwolves get the ready-to-compete defensive players they want, with Gibson+Butler being ideal running mates for Rubio's transition game, as well as fitting perfectly next to Pekovic+Martin. Bulls get Brewer back, because he would be less needed for T-Wolves, and compensates some of the hole a depature of Butler would produce. T-Wolves would be: Rubio-Martin-Butler-Gibson-Pekovic plus whatever bench they can fill including but not limited to Dieng. Bulls would be: Rose-Brewer-Dunleavy-Love-Noah plus rookies for #16 and #19 plus whatever they can get for Boozer's expiring or MLE. Might give the option to go for Anthony in a S&T, if the Bulls are willing to pay for such team, where 4 players get $70m in salary.

2. Boozer+Mirotic+#16+#19+Kings pick for Love, then unguranteed contracts for an undesired contract of Budinger or Barea (C. Brewer is not seen as a bad contract by the T-Wolves, Kevin Martin also not!). Bulls could add up to $6.5m in cash, if trades are separated into 1 at draft day and the 2nd one after the July moratorium. Timberwolves get a "all-young-and-talented" package, where Mirotic would be a guy basically worth the #4 pick now, while the Timberwolves could use their own #13, the #16, #19 and the Kings pick to move up in the draft in order to get their wanted players. The only other team capable of beating such offer based on the motivation to get as much youth and talent would be the Cavs, if they throw the #1 at the Timberwolves in such a proposal. The Celtics' #6 is less valuable, and the Nets picks are also less valuable pieces than people believe, given the fact that the Nets will go out and pay for whatever marginal talent upgrade they can get. T-Wolves could be: Rubio-Martin-Brewer-Mirotic-Pekovic, with a glut of young and talented players off the bench, again, including Dieng. Bulls would be: Rose-Butler-Dunleavy-Love-Noah with Gibson off the bench plus whatever FA they can get via MLE and Bi-Annual.

Personally, I like the 2nd option more, because it gives a better chance next season for the Bulls. The 1st option would depend on the willingness of the Bulls to add another max player by using Boozer's contract as well as it is more dependent on getting another quality big in FA (which is less likely than getting those quality players for the wing and perimeter).

A combination of both makes less sense for either team.

Rose
Butler
Melo
Taj, Mirotic
Noah

It is highly unlikely that the Bulls will have Gibson+Mirotic next season, when Anthony will be added. Anthony will likely see a bunch of his minutes at PF anyway. Best way to hide him defensively, and offensively he makes a far bigger impact there than as SF.

[Rerisen]

These Love threads remind me so much of the old KG ones. Right down to outraged Twolves fans coming in thinking they are going to gut every asset a team has for a player that no longer wants to be there - good luck, not happening. Nor does it jive with historical return of players in similar positions. You aren't getting full value due to the circumstances, so prepare to be outraged when a Love deal does finally happen, to whatever team.

And on the Bulls fan side, no one should be eager for a trade at all costs. The team is not done just upon getting Love. We cannot give up Mirotic, Gibson, Butler, and all our picks, how do you make the team better going forward with absolutely no assets?

The hardline has to be keeping one of Gibson or Mirotic (Nikola even if to use to get a wing later on). Or if those two are in then keeping the picks.

[mysticbb]

Indeed, it can be either ready-to-compete players as Gibson&Butler with minor future assets and some cap-relief, or bigger future assets with cap-relief. Bulls can't give up both, good players and bigger future assets, nor can I see another team offering such deal.

[Chi town]

All of these deals depend on Niko. If he won't go to MIN then it has to be Taj.

If NIko won't play for anyone but the Bulls then he needs to be signed now so he could be used in a future trade as an asset. I don't want him here if Love is coming though. I'd prefer to trade him to NYK with Boozer for Melo. Which IMO is plenty to get Melo.

Taj, Butler, MDJ, Sac Pick for Love, Brewer

Boozer, NIko for Melo

16 - Hood

19 McGary


I know it won't happen but it could.

[Leto]

I think we're close. But, IMO, Love is worth 1 top 10 lottery level talent and maybe two other mid 1st round talent along with expiring money.

For me, that equals Booz, Mirtotic, #16 and #19.

However, I'm not even sure I'd trade for him. I like Taj at the 4 spot because of his defense. That is our identity as a team. Bringing in Love disrupts that identity. Bringing in Love, K Mart and having Dunleavy play the 3 spot makes us the Timberwolves giving up huge numbers and completely changes the team structure. IMO, that is a very bad idea.

Instead, plug Melo in Dunleavy's/Deng's role and add Rose back to the mix, and I think we are contending and maintaining our team identity.

[mysticbb]

However, I'm not even sure I'd trade for him. I like Taj at the 4 spot because of his defense. That is our identity as a team.

Yeah, and Love is incredibe better offensively, where the current identity of the team is: playing way below average.

Bringing in Love disrupts that identity.

:lol:

Love is better as a defensive player than Carlos Boozer, and that's the main issue here. The Bulls had their "defensive identity" when they had Boozer playing, it makes about ZERO sense to assume that this would change, if Love is replacing Boozer.

Instead, plug Melo in Dunleavy's/Deng's role and add Rose back to the mix, and I think we are contending and maintaining our team identity.

Anthony is a worse team defender than Love ... really, your argumentation makes no sense or is simply just based on false beliefs.

[Rerisen]

Love and Noah wold absolutely dominate the boards, then use Love's outlet passing to get into transition with Rose and Butler leaking out. Hopefully we could add one more athletic wing down the line.

[mysticbb]

Love and Noah wold absolutely dominate the boards, then use Love's outlet passing to get into transition with Rose and Butler leaking out. Hopefully we could add one more athletic wing down the line.

And Love can run the floor too, or trailing for a 3 pt attempt ...

[nitetrain8603]

You guys are seriously undervaluing Gibson here. He is an elite defensive player and can score as well. I do not see Love's value at anymore than Gibson + 16 +19. You start adding everything we have and you turn us into the Timberwolves who give up 104 points a freakin game.

Screw Minny. They have no leverage anyway. If they want to trade him to a team he won't sign with let them. You don't give up all your assets for a guy who can't play both sides of the floor. If it was Lebron I'd say sure. But Kevin Love is not Lebron James.

I agree with you...in Feb, Love wont be worth anything near what we are offering now. Butler, Taj, Mirotic and picks....

This is the other thing I'm tired of hearing. Where, exactly, has anyone said we are offering Gibson, Mirotic, all our picks and Butler for Love? Because that is the worst trade in history. I wouldn't offer that even if he was already signed for 5 years at 15 million dollars.

Seriously, I'm about tired of these Lebron James offers for Kevin Love. Here's what I'd offer them and tell them to stick it if they don't want it:

Boozer, Mirotic, #16 + #19 and possibly the Sac pick. He is not worth more than that. I'm sorry but the guy is way over rated.

Finally, has no one learned their lesson from recent trades? What happened to NYK when they gutted their team for Melo? How about the Lakers when they traded for Howard? Granted, Bynum turned into garbage but look at the package they had to put together to get him only to miss the playoffs. And look also at the Wolves who have never made the playoffs with Love on the team. Never.Really? Joakim Noah led us to more wins than Kevin Love. I'll keep our picks and Mirotic before I send out the farm to get Love. I like our team and we are not far away from being contenders. If Rose comes back liek Rose, we already are contenders. We don't even need Love nor Melo. But, if I had to choose between those two, I'm taking Melo every time. He fits our team way better and we won't have to destroy our identity as a defensive team to get him.

No one is offering a deal as if he were LeBron James. If he was LeBron James, he wouldn't be on the market. Love is definitely worth Boozer, Butler, Taj + 2 picks. Why? Because he's 25 years old, can fill it up and rebound with the best of them. Him and Rose can form a dynamic 1-2 combo. Within the next 3 years, Love will be the greatest PF in the game.

So yes, he's definitely worth it. He hasn't made the playoffs because Minny plays in a tough ass Western Conference. From top to bottom, this is probably the strongest I've ever seen either Conference in my lifetime. In the East, Minny would've been no lower than the #3 seed.

BTW, the Lakers did make the playoffs with Dwight. And they missed it because they didn't have Kobe for most of the year and most of their vets were injured throughout the year. And even with Dwight not working out, what did they have literally the following offseason? Oh yeah, a boatload of cap space.

[nitetrain8603]

You guys are seriously undervaluing Gibson here. He is an elite defensive player and can score as well. I do not see Love's value at anymore than Gibson + 16 +19. You start adding everything we have and you turn us into the Timberwolves who give up 104 points a freakin game.

Screw Minny. They have no leverage anyway. If they want to trade him to a team he won't sign with let them. You don't give up all your assets for a guy who can't play both sides of the floor. If it was Lebron I'd say sure. But Kevin Love is not Lebron James.

You are seriously overvaluing Gibson and seriously undervaluing Love.

Gibson is a good role player.

Love is a superstar.

That is a joke of an offer and not even remotely close to enough value for Love. Even if Love stated he hated the Wolves, and the Celtics, Warriors, Kings, and Lakers said they no longer have any interest in Love, that would not be close to enough.

What does Love give us over Gibson, three point shooting, and better rebounding, he is no superstar, superstars can create their shoot, he is uber role player, Taj can score in post much better than Love, he is not good rebounder as Love,, but he is decent, he is so much better defender, to give not only Gibson picks, and also Butler is way too much, the most i would give for Love is Boozer, Mirotic(who we dont need if we have Love) and picks...
for first time i agree with Friedell, that Melo should be our first choice to go for, and i really hope that we dont overpay for Love, if we can get him with our offer, than dont go for him, go other way...

So shot creators are now the only superstars? So Jamal Crawford is a superstar? No. While Love doesn't fill every need, you get good by acquiring the best players and filling in the gaps with role players which is what Jamal Crawford and Taj Gibson are, and Kevin Love is not. You are severely overrating Taj, who by the way, is older as well.