Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

[nomorezorro]

Thinking we have the potential to be the 16th best offense in the NFL is insanely optimistic?

bad playcalling absolutely can drag down an average offense to below average. Especially with a rookie QB and horrible play design.

He doesn't call any plays the has anyone run past 10 yards, his receivers are always all over each other with their routes, and he tries too hard to our smart defenses with his design. He consistently makes bad decisions that cost the offense momentum or even points. Terrible clock management. He completely took Robinson out of the game plan. He plays people who shouldn't be in and leaves people out that should be playing.

Obviously there are things that you can't entirely blame on Nagy like Fields inconsistency and just bad discipline on the team as a whole but a lot of blame for those things still fall on a HC who is supposed to be a super smart QB whisper.

yeah i guess i was reading stuff into that post that isn’t actually there, my bad. i totally agree the offense has the potential to be solid with a *good* coach; i just chafe at the notion that the fix is as simple as “replace nagy and you’re golden” because there’s a talent issue in play, too. (not that you think that, but i get the sense other people do)

whoever we bring in next has to be able to maximize the skills of the personnel we actually have, rather than square peg-round hole everything until he has clout to sign the kind of guys he wants. a good coach can hide weaknesses and play to strengths, but there’s no guarantee we hire someone who’s actually able to do that

[Dresden]

When trying to sift through the issues that are "Fields" vs Bears/Nagy here is what I see that Justin needs a lot of work on.

Accuracy in the short game. Sure I do put a lot on the receivers for not catching some catch-able balls but more (short) passes need to precise and on the money, in stride, etc. I would not underestimate this skill as I think people assume this is easier to fix than the long ball but its a skill in itself. And in order to win in today's NFL this is probably the #1 QB skill--chip away all day with this and then hit deep.

Ball security. Yet again we see more turnovers from him. Whether its sack fumbles or anything else--he needs to work on this big time.

Quicker on read/release. He needs to make the pass just a tad faster. He actually was better in stretches last night but this needs work no matter what. He needs to either run or throw it away. Rodgers is the king in throwing the ball away and not taking a sack--Fields will need to work on this to save massive negative yards we keep seeing. Some is rookie--but some is him just missing things. Again I have no faith in the current staff to address/fix any of this. You can watch Walsh talking to Montana during "the catch" game where they beat the Cowboys. Walsh calmly tells him--if you don't see what you want just throw the ball away. I see none of this rapport--maybe its happening in the headset who knows. In that 4th down play last night he just needed to whip it up and pray because it was clear he wasn't going to get it running. An INT in the endzone would be no worse.

Needs to work on protecting himself not taking sacks (again throw it away) or hits. I am glad they finally called that late hit helmet to helmet-because that was cheap and not needed-but the announcers brought up a good point--his baseball slide does leave his head up higher and potentially riskier slide than some other QBs. Again--are we working on this?

I'm willing to see many other things as typical rookie issues. But part of the inconsistency is his lack of quality in the short game.
I'm still maybe one of the few who believe that organization/coaching play a much bigger role in QBs than pure skill--but right now there are just as many bad signs as good signs with Justin. He's definitely not as NFL ready as Mitch was and I'm not sure what is fixable vs what may be fatal flaws. We really have to hope for a Steve Young TAM-->SF type transformation but this is a rare transformation.

While I hope a regime change could make him better--I'm just not sure--there are a lot of issues to fix. I would not give up on him just yet--but you would want to see almost historic leaps in season 2 for him to be on track.

I agree that being accurate in the short game is extremely important in the NFL these days, and it's not something anybody can do. Dalton was not given much credit at all this year when he was playing and doing well in this department. "Oh those are easy passes that the defense is giving them". BS. It takes timing and accuracy to fit the ball into the tight slots you're given on many of those short throws, and Dalton was pretty damn good at it. It's something Fields absolutely needs work on- even when passes are completed, he often makes receivers stretch for the ball, which also leads to drops.

And you just cannot fumble the ball away so much. It's to the point with him that I wonder if Nagy just told him- one more fumble and you're getting pulled- if that would make him be a little more aware and careful with the ball. I've never seen a qb fumble the ball as much as he does- ever.

[fleet]

Thinking we have the potential to be the 16th best offense in the NFL is insanely optimistic?

bad playcalling absolutely can drag down an average offense to below average. Especially with a rookie QB and horrible play design.

He doesn't call any plays the has anyone run past 10 yards, his receivers are always all over each other with their routes, and he tries too hard to our smart defenses with his design. He consistently makes bad decisions that cost the offense momentum or even points. Terrible clock management. He completely took Robinson out of the game plan. He plays people who shouldn't be in and leaves people out that should be playing.

Obviously there are things that you can't entirely blame on Nagy like Fields inconsistency and just bad discipline on the team as a whole but a lot of blame for those things still fall on a HC who is supposed to be a super smart QB whisper.

yeah i guess i was reading stuff into that post that isn’t actually there, my bad. i totally agree the offense has the potential to be solid with a *good* coach; i just chafe at the notion that the fix is as simple as “replace nagy and you’re golden” because there’s a talent issue in play, too. (not that you think that, but i get the sense other people do)

whoever we bring in next has to be able to maximize the skills of the personnel we actually have, rather than square peg-round hole everything until he has clout to sign the kind of guys he wants. a good coach can hide weaknesses and play to strengths, but there’s no guarantee we hire someone who’s actually able to do that

Montgomery is a 1, but RBs are a dime a dozen.

Mooney is 2, 2.5

Kmet is not a 1.

Got a big question at LT

Borum is probably a 1

Mustipher was overrated on his honeymoon. Not that good. Not a 1

We have good starting guards, maybe a center if one moves over

I mean we might have a good quarterback, but honestly, not more than “solid” seems possible with any coach. That’s where I give Nagy some slack. But he is a terrible game day coach and strategist, so…

The offense is going to be almost totally revamped imo.

[Jimako10]

Went to the game last night....fans dressed up as the grinch were the highlights, along with the Fire Nagy/Sell the Team chants. Those penalties after the defense stopping them on 3rd down were back breakers.

[micromonkey]

I agree that being accurate in the short game is extremely important in the NFL these days, and it's not something anybody can do. Dalton was not given much credit at all this year when he was playing and doing well in this department. "Oh those are easy passes that the defense is giving them". BS. It takes timing and accuracy to fit the ball into the tight slots you're given on many of those short throws, and Dalton was pretty damn good at it. It's something Fields absolutely needs work on- even when passes are completed, he often makes receivers stretch for the ball, which also leads to drops.

And you just cannot fumble the ball away so much. It's to the point with him that I wonder if Nagy just told him- one more fumble and you're getting pulled- if that would make him be a little more aware and careful with the ball. I've never seen a qb fumble the ball as much as he does- ever.

Yes the fumbles seem way to high--I don't know how you coach that but its apparently Nagy doesn't have a clue either.
He leads the league despite limited snaps. When you compare him to other QBs with similar # of drop backs--its even worse. He has 12 vs 5-6 for other QBs with similar # of drop backs. He also has highest INT rate, and is in bottom 5 for TD rate and completion percentage-Trevor Lawrence is also in similar ballparks--even lower TD% and completion %--but lower INT%.

I do see some nice things with Fields but he needs a lot of work IMO. I think its possible for him to get better--I mean Look at Winston in TAM (which hardly was a garbage offense) and then in NOR under Sean Payton. I mean he cut his INT% and bad decision rate drastically (more than half) and nearly doubled his TD%. Again it was 7 games--still even with some return to the mean it was on pace to be a great season from Jameis--at 27.

I just hope he knows the what and how to work on things in the offseason. Organizational chaos could make it even worse and leave him on his own. He needs to find an NFL vet to work with on some things in the offseason. And pray we get better staff....

[dice]

The drumbeat is pretty loud and steady now that the Bears must clean house. I heard it on the national broadcast last night, you hear it in the Chicago media as well as the national media. If the Bears do anything less than that this offseason, the owners are going to get a lot heat. So hopefully that's what they do. I think the example set by the Bulls has also raised expectations and provided a blueprint for how quickly a team can be turned around with the right decision makers in place.

Last night's game was just an embarrassment- all the stupid, out of control penalties, along with the rest of the incompetence- and all on national tv.

don't forget nagy being over-the-top belligerent w/ the refs...as usual. that's reason #1 i want him gone

[dice]

Kmet and Fields need to get on the same page in the red zone. Cole has 0TDs this year and that's a big part of what we're missing right now - get him to be a reliable red zone threat and things aren't so bad down there.

trubisky to graham was one of the best red zone combos in the league last season. graham's still here

a couple of weeks ago i distinctly recall fields missing a stationary kmet on a potential 10 yard TD pass over the middle

even w/ the lack of results in the passing game earlier in the season i was still optimistic on fields. the lack of progress has dampened that a bit though. assuming he survives this season i look forward to a fresh start for him next season

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Do the Bears have money for the offseason? Or has our awful GM gutted the future of the team too?

The free agency class is good, especially at receiver. Adams is a FA and likely will want of it when Aaron leaves. Really need a talent upgrade at receiver. I guess he could just get franchised, but maybe he threatens to sit out? Best receiver in the league shouldn’t get franchised.

[Dresden]

Kmet and Fields need to get on the same page in the red zone. Cole has 0TDs this year and that's a big part of what we're missing right now - get him to be a reliable red zone threat and things aren't so bad down there.

trubisky to graham was one of the best red zone combos in the league last season. graham's still here

a couple of weeks ago i distinctly recall fields missing a stationary kmet on a potential 10 yard TD pass over the middle

even w/ the lack of results in the passing game earlier in the season i was still optimistic on fields. the lack of progress has dampened that a bit though. assuming he survives this season i look forward to a fresh start for him next season

He missed another chance to hit Kmet in the end zone on MOnday, on a short pass. Threw the ball behind him. Not a hard throw.

[patryk7754]

Do the Bears have money for the offseason? Or has our awful GM gutted the future of the team too?

The free agency class is good, especially at receiver. Adams is a FA and likely will want of it when Aaron leaves. Really need a talent upgrade at receiver. I guess he could just get franchised, but maybe he threatens to sit out? Best receiver in the league shouldn’t get franchised.

if we trade foles (not cut) and do a couple of cuts we'd have close to 60m in cap. the issues is that there are a lot of expiring contracts. I think we'd have about 30 players under contract. The bright side is that the people we have to resign are mostly minimum or close to that.

I think after doing most of the resignings they'd have between 20-30 in cap to use in FA

[patryk7754]

JC jackson is probably the best FA available. He's also probably the best CB period. Since he's come in the league he's forced the second worst or worst QB rating against him. He's an INT machine. A true lock down number one corner. He'll probably be offered a record contract by a lot of teams. If I were the GM i would think about making him an offer as well because we already have a great core on defense and he'll take this defense to the next level.

[patryk7754]

Kmet and Fields need to get on the same page in the red zone. Cole has 0TDs this year and that's a big part of what we're missing right now - get him to be a reliable red zone threat and things aren't so bad down there.

trubisky to graham was one of the best red zone combos in the league last season. graham's still here

a couple of weeks ago i distinctly recall fields missing a stationary kmet on a potential 10 yard TD pass over the middle

even w/ the lack of results in the passing game earlier in the season i was still optimistic on fields. the lack of progress has dampened that a bit though. assuming he survives this season i look forward to a fresh start for him next season

He missed another chance to hit Kmet in the end zone on MOnday, on a short pass. Threw the ball behind him. Not a hard throw.

Kmet is a bust. Possibly the worst hands in the league.

[Almost Retired]

trubisky to graham was one of the best red zone combos in the league last season. graham's still here

a couple of weeks ago i distinctly recall fields missing a stationary kmet on a potential 10 yard TD pass over the middle

even w/ the lack of results in the passing game earlier in the season i was still optimistic on fields. the lack of progress has dampened that a bit though. assuming he survives this season i look forward to a fresh start for him next season

He missed another chance to hit Kmet in the end zone on MOnday, on a short pass. Threw the ball behind him. Not a hard throw.

Kmet is a bust. Possibly the worst hands in the league.[/quote

Just another reason Pace has to go. So many blown picks in the first 2 rounds since he came on board. He sees things in players that no other GM sees, then gives away assets to move up to draft players...essentially bidding against himself. He's given away too many draft assets in trades, leaving us vulnerable from a talent and a salary cap perspective. Other than Mooney has he drafted a single play maker at WR or TE ? Pace has gambled too often with limited success. If the McCaskey clan has any credibility left they will fire Pace and Nagy the Monday morning after the Bears last game. Enough already.

[micromonkey]

I think Pace should be fired--but mostly its on coaching selection and trading draft picks.

If you compare what he's done in draft with the picks he's got in general--he's not horrible but he's missed on the QB and traded up for lower value players at the most important position. He has not valued OL until this year-where we have been consistently poor. He's done good on RBs getting Howard, Cohen, Monty and Herbert. I don't know how much is in house scouting--as we have always done at least a good job here over the years.

On defense I think we can say he's done at least above average as well if not good (which is where I'd put him). On offense skilled--TE Kmet and Shaheen were drafted too high IMO, especially with our 2nd round picks being our top prize many years. Neither of them are pro level players, maybe practice squad/special teams. WR have been complete misses outside maybe Mooney (he's TBD)?

On QB
Mitch vs either Watson/Mahomes and paying for the privilege of moving up.
And sadly-in all likelihood Fields vs Mac Jones--and again paying for that privilege. I am not sure either is "franchise" but Jones as least looks like an NFL player. Fields will need a lot of work to be an NFL caliber QB. Even if fans (myself included) liked this move--the GM needs to be coolly rational and have a better grasp of the skills and NFL readiness of guys. Maybe all the other GMs were right? Again I'm not going to ding him for this one yet as we can still say we don't know but smart money would say standing pat and taking Jones likely was the smarter move.

Packers drafted their entire starting OL over the same period Pace was GM (minus Billy turner who they signed for 4yr 28$) and Yosh Nijman who was an undrafted signing. According to PFF

Packers offensive linemen rank fourth in overall grade over the past three years, and the unit finished 2020 with the No. 2 ranking in the league.

Contrasted with

The big question for the Bears is the tackle position, where they got league-average play for several years. Until that is answered, this looks like a bottom-10 offensive line heading into 2021.

The pack fired a superbowl winning HC who was past his prime in his second season below .500 and didn't miss a beat--they didn't let it marinate and drag out. They got a new guy in and went 13-3 the next 2 years. The Bears let this poop show get to the point where everyone thought the HC and GM should have been fired last year--but no they stretched it out a long year and proved the fans utterly right.

It needs to go deeper than Pace--Phillips has to go as well. You can't let guys stick around for 1 year and burn the freaking house down if they are already on thin ice. If we want to be a serious team--we are trending more down into Lions territory than up to Pack territory if we are being brutally honest.

[Dresden]

I have probably only watched about 1/3 of the Bears games this year, but I have not noticed Kmet dropping a lot of balls. And I do hear announcers say fairly often that he is part of group of young talent on offense that the Bears will build around (along with Mooney, Field, and Monty).

I think it's hard to judge how good any of our receivers are since we don't seem to utilize them properly, they don't get that many opportunities, and our line has been so bad, the QB hardly ever has time to throw the ball effectively.

I remember people in CHI being glad that Greg Olsen was traded away or let go, because he also supposedly had bad hands. And he went on to have a HOF career as soon as he was put in an offense with a good QB. So I'd be leery of giving up on any of our receivers until we get the O line and the play calling fixed.

[Susan]

Do the Bears have money for the offseason? Or has our awful GM gutted the future of the team too?

The free agency class is good, especially at receiver. Adams is a FA and likely will want of it when Aaron leaves. Really need a talent upgrade at receiver. I guess he could just get franchised, but maybe he threatens to sit out? Best receiver in the league shouldn’t get franchised.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/chicago-bears/2022/

Adams ain't coming here.

They can get to $55m if they cut Goldman, Cohen and Foles - not sure what's up with Trevathan but he might not be physically capable of playing football anymore with his knee. If he retired, that's another $6m or so.

Quinn and Mack can get restructures that bring in more cap space as well.

If Thomas Graham Jr can keep it up, the secondary looks a whole lot better going into next year with both starters being on rookie deals - get a rookie Strong Safety to play next to Eddie and that unit is solid.

[MalagaBulls]

Do the Bears have money for the offseason? Or has our awful GM gutted the future of the team too?

The free agency class is good, especially at receiver. Adams is a FA and likely will want of it when Aaron leaves. Really need a talent upgrade at receiver. I guess he could just get franchised, but maybe he threatens to sit out? Best receiver in the league shouldn’t get franchised.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/chicago-bears/2022/

Adams ain't coming here.

They can get to $55m if they cut Goldman, Cohen and Foles - not sure what's up with Trevathan but he might not be physically capable of playing football anymore with his knee. If he retired, that's another $6m or so.

Quinn and Mack can get restructures that bring in more cap space as well.

If Thomas Graham Jr can keep it up, the secondary looks a whole lot better going into next year with both starters being on rookie deals - get a rookie Strong Safety to play next to Eddie and that unit is solid.

I know I've said this before but we really should look at dangling either Quinn or Mack for at least a 2nd. I think Quinn might even fetch a 1st.

[jmajew]

Do the Bears have money for the offseason? Or has our awful GM gutted the future of the team too?

The free agency class is good, especially at receiver. Adams is a FA and likely will want of it when Aaron leaves. Really need a talent upgrade at receiver. I guess he could just get franchised, but maybe he threatens to sit out? Best receiver in the league shouldn’t get franchised.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/chicago-bears/2022/

Adams ain't coming here.

They can get to $55m if they cut Goldman, Cohen and Foles - not sure what's up with Trevathan but he might not be physically capable of playing football anymore with his knee. If he retired, that's another $6m or so.

Quinn and Mack can get restructures that bring in more cap space as well.

If Thomas Graham Jr can keep it up, the secondary looks a whole lot better going into next year with both starters being on rookie deals - get a rookie Strong Safety to play next to Eddie and that unit is solid.

I know I've said this before but we really should look at dangling either Quinn or Mack for at least a 2nd. I think Quinn might even fetch a 1st.

If you trade them you still get the cap hit, I believe. This means you don't save any money. Not sure if you are better keeping both of them next year.

[Susan]

Do the Bears have money for the offseason? Or has our awful GM gutted the future of the team too?

The free agency class is good, especially at receiver. Adams is a FA and likely will want of it when Aaron leaves. Really need a talent upgrade at receiver. I guess he could just get franchised, but maybe he threatens to sit out? Best receiver in the league shouldn’t get franchised.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/chicago-bears/2022/

Adams ain't coming here.

They can get to $55m if they cut Goldman, Cohen and Foles - not sure what's up with Trevathan but he might not be physically capable of playing football anymore with his knee. If he retired, that's another $6m or so.

Quinn and Mack can get restructures that bring in more cap space as well.

If Thomas Graham Jr can keep it up, the secondary looks a whole lot better going into next year with both starters being on rookie deals - get a rookie Strong Safety to play next to Eddie and that unit is solid.

I know I've said this before but we really should look at dangling either Quinn or Mack for at least a 2nd. I think Quinn might even fetch a 1st.

Von Miller got a 2nd and a 3rd, he's older but more consistant than Quinn, Mack is coming off season ending surgery, dunno what he'd fetch. You're taking a $24m dead cap hit by trading Mack, $12m for trading Quinn. Lots of dead money and lost production to nab a draft pick.

[TheSuzerain]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/chicago-bears/2022/

Adams ain't coming here.

They can get to $55m if they cut Goldman, Cohen and Foles - not sure what's up with Trevathan but he might not be physically capable of playing football anymore with his knee. If he retired, that's another $6m or so.

Quinn and Mack can get restructures that bring in more cap space as well.

If Thomas Graham Jr can keep it up, the secondary looks a whole lot better going into next year with both starters being on rookie deals - get a rookie Strong Safety to play next to Eddie and that unit is solid.

I know I've said this before but we really should look at dangling either Quinn or Mack for at least a 2nd. I think Quinn might even fetch a 1st.

Von Miller got a 2nd and a 3rd, he's older but more consistant than Quinn, Mack is coming off season ending surgery, dunno what he'd fetch. You're taking a $24m dead cap hit by trading Mack, $12m for trading Quinn. Lots of dead money and lost production to nab a draft pick.

We shouldn't care about dead money or about the defense for the next year (or perhaps even 2 years).