The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall.

[khufure]

It's been a few games. How is Patrick Williams not an all-star yet? Time to fire up at least 50 "is Patrick Williams a bust?" threads...

[cjbulls]

half these dudes couldn't shoot. other than trey lyles, the other half is at least ok. early returns looking good for pwill

Yes, the shooting seems like a positive, even ahead of his draft status with room to grow. But PW seems lacking in other areas against those players like rebounding and playmaking.

At this point, the only thing we can surely say is that he isnt a complete bust and belongs as an NBA rotation player at the minimum. But I don’t see the big ceiling everyone else wants to read and afraid I’m being the more realistic of the two views.

Please take in mind this kid only played in 5 games with no real offseason nor summer league he is where I expect PWill to be.

That’s fair. We probably won’t be able to know much until the start of next year. But he isn’t outperforming his fellow rookies.

[Bulls69]

Yes, the shooting seems like a positive, even ahead of his draft status with room to grow. But PW seems lacking in other areas against those players like rebounding and playmaking.

At this point, the only thing we can surely say is that he isnt a complete bust and belongs as an NBA rotation player at the minimum. But I don’t see the big ceiling everyone else wants to read and afraid I’m being the more realistic of the two views.

Please take in mind this kid only played in 5 games with no real offseason nor summer league he is where I expect PWill to be.

That’s fair. We probably won’t be able to know much until the start of next year. But he isn’t outperforming his fellow rookies.

It's still way early none of the rookies have really stood out yet but is only than less than 10 games.

[cjbulls]

It's been a few games. How is Patrick Williams not an all-star yet? Time to fire up at least 50 "is Patrick Williams a bust?" threads...

From what I can tell, multiple people started turning on Coby November 9th, 2019, after game 9. So PW has another week, haha

[ZOMG]

It's been a few games. How is Patrick Williams not an all-star yet? Time to fire up at least 50 "is Patrick Williams a bust?" threads...

From what I can tell, multiple people started turning on Coby November 9th, 2019, after game 9. So PW has another week, haha

I'll have you know that I've been against Coby since he was in middle school!!

Bunch of Johnny-come-latelies...

[RedBulls23]

half these dudes couldn't shoot. other than trey lyles, the other half is at least ok. early returns looking good for pwill

Yes, the shooting seems like a positive, even ahead of his draft status with room to grow. But PW seems lacking in other areas against those players like rebounding and playmaking.

At this point, the only thing we can surely say is that he isnt a complete bust and belongs as an NBA rotation player at the minimum. But I don’t see the big ceiling everyone else wants to read and afraid I’m being the more realistic of the two views.

But but but he can palm a basketball with ease. DOESN'T THAT COUNT FOR ANYTHING??

Ah yes, basketball is famously known for physical attributes not making any kind of difference or impact on a players game.

[logical_art]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

[cjbulls]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

[khufure]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

size -- 6'8" / 7'2" wingspan -- elite for 3
speed -- seems to have both 'speed' and 'quick'
jump -- 39" vertical, 32" standing. not only this, I've observed he seems to hang in the air like Jordan to get separation.
shot -- 80%+ FT. simple mechanics that just need repetition. looks like he could be 40% from 3 and already a diverse threat offensively.
defense -- already good, if not superlative. can switch to guard most other positions.

I just don't see or understand this narrative about 'is he a 3'? What makes you think he's not or will not be? He has perfect size and is very much fast enough to be a 3 his entire career. I feel like the people continuing this narrative are blindly believing whatever journalist or not watching the games.

[cjbulls]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

size -- 6'8" / 7'2" wingspan -- elite for 3
speed -- seems to have both 'speed' and 'quick'
jump -- 39" vertical, 32" standing. not only this, I've observed he seems to hang in the air like Jordan to get separation.
shot -- 80%+ FT. simple mechanics that just need repetition. looks like he could be 40% from 3 and already a diverse threat offensively.
defense -- already good, if not superlative. can switch to guard most other positions.

I just don't see or understand this narrative about 'is he a 3'? What makes you think he's not or will not be? He has perfect size and is very much fast enough to be a 3 his entire career. I feel like the people continuing this narrative are blindly believing whatever journalist or not watching the games.

You know most of this is false, right? Nor does it say any elite trait.

-He’s 6’8 with a 6’11 wingspan
-He has shown no elite speed or quick. Certainly adequate minus the lateral movement
-He does have a very high jump, but considering you pulled your numbers from the same false measurements, I don’t trust it. Not does a high jump amount to much of anything on its own (WCJ measure at a 39” vert)
-He does not look like a 40% 3pt shooter unless you assume he’s only taking one wide open three per game. He’s not a volume shooter in the slightest right now and his hitched 3 basically requires him to be open.
-His defense is not “superlative”. He’s a solid defender. He certainly won’t hurt you but you can’t really put him on the opposing teams best guy at this point. Giannis manhandled him, although to be fair Giannis does that to almost everyone

So you overstated a bunch of incorrect statements and provided no elite traits. I think he’s a 3 right now, but his body is huge at age 19. I think he will continue to add muscle, lose quickness and age out of the 3 relatively young. That can always change as his body matures. I’d prefer to see him fight things to stay slim. He has a lot more potential as a power 3 than trying to be a quicker 4, especially when you factor in the rebounding.

[khufure]

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

size -- 6'8" / 7'2" wingspan -- elite for 3
speed -- seems to have both 'speed' and 'quick'
jump -- 39" vertical, 32" standing. not only this, I've observed he seems to hang in the air like Jordan to get separation.
shot -- 80%+ FT. simple mechanics that just need repetition. looks like he could be 40% from 3 and already a diverse threat offensively.
defense -- already good, if not superlative. can switch to guard most other positions.

I just don't see or understand this narrative about 'is he a 3'? What makes you think he's not or will not be? He has perfect size and is very much fast enough to be a 3 his entire career. I feel like the people continuing this narrative are blindly believing whatever journalist or not watching the games.

You know most of this is false, right? Nor does it say any elite trait.

-He’s 6’8 with a 6’11 wingspan
-He has shown no elite speed or quick. Certainly adequate minus the lateral movement
-He does have a very high jump, but considering you pulled your numbers from the same false measurements, I don’t trust it. Not does a high jump amount to much of anything on its own (WCJ measure at a 39” vert)
-He does not look like a 40% 3pt shooter unless you assume he’s only taking one wide open three per game. He’s not a volume shooter in the slightest right now and his hitched 3 basically requires him to be open.
-His defense is not “superlative”. He’s a solid defender. He certainly won’t hurt you but you can’t really put him on the opposing teams best guy at this point. Giannis manhandled him, although to be fair Giannis does that to almost everyone

So you overstated a bunch of incorrect statements and provided no elite traits. I think he’s a 3 right now, but his body is huge at age 19. I think he will continue to add muscle, lose quickness and age out of the 3 relatively young. That can always change as his body matures. I’d prefer to see him fight things to stay slim. He has a lot more potential as a power 3 than trying to be a quicker 4, especially when you factor in the rebounding.

I looked up his wingspan and some draft site first hit from google said 7'2" (https://hoopsprospects.com/2020/06/18/patrick-williams-scouting-report/). I looked again and now they are all saying 7'. 7' is still a strong measurement and a 'tool' in a lot of ways.

His defense is superlative for a rookie, especially with how bad WCJ has been early and in general the Bulls atrocious defense. Every rookie has issues. He'll probably be 'best defender on the team' most of his career.

I haven't noticed a hitch in his shot, nor have I read about such a thing. Maybe it was there in some of the blowout games where I fell asleep? What I have read is he's a little mechanical and needs more years of hoisting up shots before he reaches his peak. High FT% gives me hope he can be a high 3pt %

WCJ had a 39" vert? LUL noway. But PW does seem to have fantastic rebounding ability and shot separation from jumping and hanging in the air. So regardless of whatever the number is, I'd rate this as a plus tool.

[logical_art]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

His athleticism + size/physique for a 19 year old + solid handle and shot for his size and age. That's a pretty full toolkit.

He's got a much deeper toolkit than anyone else the Bulls have drafted in a while. Coby is pretty fast in a straight line. Lauri has a good stroke for a 7 footer. Carter has basically zero high level traits?

[cjbulls]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

His athleticism + size/physique for a 19 year old + solid handle and shot for his size and age. That's a pretty full toolkit.

He's got a much deeper toolkit than anyone else the Bulls have drafted in a while. Coby is pretty fast in a straight line. Lauri has a good stroke for a 7 footer. Carter has basically zero high level traits?

It seems you agree, he has a lot of good attributes but nothing great. And that’s before the very debatable comment that his handle and shot are advances for his age. Hard to see stardom based on that.

[sco]

He's got the tools. It's going to be up to the Bulls coaching staff and him to become a good player.

But after years of drafting super flawed low ceiling players, I'm glad we took a swing on someone whose upside looks really high.

What are his high upside tools? I still don’t see where it is coming from other than pure fan optimism. I can buy that only Lauri was probably a high upside player, but Coby, WCJ and Lauri at least had a potentially elite trait that could have made them special: speed, iq, and shooting respectively. Now none of them have been able to materialize that into a great player, and some miserably so right now.

But Pat has nothing that’s elite. It’s just a “well he’s pretty big, pretty athletic, a pretty good shooter (now). Maybe you can say he could be a physically dominant 3 with his strength, but it’s not clear he’s going to stay a 3 and he really isn’t aggressive in the way you’d want a physically overwhelming player to be.

Don't forget he's got good handles for a 3 and is a nice passer, coupled with a decent 3 pt. shot. I'm still not sold on him being Kawhi, but he could be an Otto Porter type player, optimistically, more durable/healthy. That'd be a win.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[bledredwine]

Pat Will is what I call a “Boston Celtic player”, meaning we got a guy who will be a solid rotational piece/defender/scorer and a good team player, but not some superstar.

Considering the garbage that we’ve been drafting over the last six+ years, I consider that a success.

And considering his tools, as mentioned above? It was a smart pick in a crapshoot of a draft. Who knows? Maybe he can become that Kawhi type. He certainly seems to possess that body control that Jimmy and Kawhi had their first year. That’s rare, and is an indication of poise, not to mention potential consistency.

One of the best aspects about Pat though is that he’s nowhere near finished developing. That much is obvious.

[fleet]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

He's got it in him, but it's not ready to deploy yet. He loses the ball on a lot of occasions in front of defenders, and has to tighten it up. One of those glue skills that will unlock his game in a couple years. But it is stillbaking in the oven.

[DroseReturnChi]

He's got it in him, but it's not ready to deploy yet. He loses the ball on a lot of occasions in front of defenders, and has to tighten it up. One of those glue skills that will unlock his game in a couple years. But it is stillbaking in the oven.

Still much better than Butler was a prospect and closer to 2014 young Kawhi right before he took off.
You can tell hes going to explode make J Brown type leap in few yrs by yr3 at the latest with his advanced skillset.
Dont get the feeling hes raw like Carter/White and pretty much rookie issue/not starting in his entire career.
He loves mid range and plays old school he is more Kawhi/Butler than PG.

[fleet]

I really like those Bruce Lee Kobes

[TheSuzerain]

In no way does PWill have a full toolkit. That's just flatly wrong.

The entire appeal of PWill is that he's very good physically (although not great), and he's young enough (he's super young) that there's legit hope that he can develop his tools significantly. We've already seen improvements in his skills since college. He also seems solid/bright in his interviews.

I think the odds of him becoming a straight-up star are low (although not zero) as he'd need Kawhi/Butler outlier development. We'll know more on that front next season after he's had an entire offseason to train. But he seems a reasonable bet to becoming an above average starter on a playoff team at a position of value/versatility.