Melo 15: The End Is Nigh

[DRoseCantStop]

What trade do you speak of?

A three team trade between CHI, NYK, and LAL.

I don't recall any specifics about these three teams. Did I miss something or should this be in green font?

Speculating.

[Indomitable]

Some serious whining going on up in here. I was going to pull a double shift, but the negativity...

People realise that we're in the Eastern conference, right?

We're winning 55 games next season, no question. SOUNDS TERRIBLE.

If we miss on Anthony, we move onto Love. No stress.

Adding Rose, McBuckets, and Mirotic to an already strong team. Count me in.

Hopefully we actually add Mirotic to the roster and Rose stays healthy. Still need a shooting guard.

Alex Burks

[IrishBeatdown]

Mirotic coming over and I'm thinking the Bulls are entirely prepared to get rid of Taj today.


I believe by the end of today or tomorrow, Taj Gibson will NOT be a Bull.

We had better be sure that we are getting Melo in that case, assuming Mirotic can just step in and replace Taj could end up easily being a faulty assumption.

[TyrusRose2425]

The problem with the "dump Gibson" route is that you don't have any money to give to Mirotic either, unless you think you can get him for the room exception. He would be playing almost for free at that point when you include his buyout.

Can't they spread the buyout over the years? The thing is the sooner Mirotic completes this first contract, the sooner he can get that big paycheck.

The point is that the Bulls can only offer Mirotic $2.5M per year through the capspace route. I think his buyout is $3M. If he signs a 3 year deal, its 3/7.5 where 3 of it is going to Real Madrid. I just can't see that happening.

Just as bad, the Bulls then couldn't use their room exception on a back up point guard.

People glibly regurgitate the Taj thing without thinking about the team afterwards. Its not that Taj is a stud, its that the Bulls options get really limited in trying to put together a functional team when they go the capspace route. Its not going to be attractive to Melo or Mirotic or Thibodeau or just about anyone else.

But after Mirotic takes that 'hit', he gets paid pretty nice money, assuming he pans out here. Otherwise, he makes solid money back in Europe where he already proved himself.

[Leto]

The Knicks have no leverage of any kind. We don't have to deal with them one way or another. This decision is Melo's. If he wants to come to Chicago, he will be here next week. If NY wants a S&T where they take Boozer's expiring contract, they can garner a few assets out of the deal. If they ask for too much, screw them. We'll amnesty Boozer and send Dunleavy, Snell, Magic and Jimmy, if need be, to another team in a salary dump and NY gets zero.

Still, it just depends on Melo--not on Phil Jackson.

Knicks have some leverage over Chicago, its just exaggerated.
Media loves reporting that 5 yr bird max total.
In a reality, Melo uses an ETO before those 5 years are up.

They really don't. They have nothing. Melo is a FA. He is not under contract.

Look, the Bulls will have to dump salary if Melo says he wants to come here, regarless. The only question is who gets those players and assets. The salary we would have to dump are either on rookie deals or Mike Dunleavy. None of those assets will be hard to give away and it wouldn't surprise me if we actually come out of it with some future assets like 2nd round picks.

[jc23]

So, Steve Kyler is saying

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 4m
Dwight left 30 Mill last year ---> No he didn't... Left a fifth year that he'll get from Houston after third year

Does this mean we can give Melo that 5th year after his 3rd?

pretty much, its a small gamble on melos side. But that 5th year is overrated imo.

[WindyCityBorn]

I can see if the guy never got paid big bucks before be he does he got a shoe deal and had a massive contract before so him just taking the max money just shows he cares more about money then winning when he already has enough money to buy whatever he wants

But mark my words when his career is over he will regret not winning a ring I mean maybe the zen master can do it but I just don't see it

Melo probably figures he can ring chase after this last big deal if it doesn't work out in New York. He will be 35 when it expires. That leaves him 2-4 years to ride another star's coat tails barring injury.

legacy-wise not even a top 50 player in league history when it's all said and done.

So Karl Malone, Charles Barkley and John Stockton are not Top 50 then? Although they all at least made the NBA Finals they didn't win.

[nitetrain8603]

Ladies, it's not over until it's over. I think everyone needs to step off the ledge. I'm one of the biggest FO bashes and if I'm showing confidence in them, you should too. Let everything play out through Monday.


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[Peelboy]

Bulls are currently at about $71M in committed payroll for 2014-15 ($68 per shamsports plus McD at about $1.5 plus Noah's 500K increase plus about 500K on Randolph w stretch buyout). Boozer ($16.8), Taj ($8), MDJ ($3.3), Snell ($1.5) = $29.6. Plus $4M in nonguaranteeds for a total of $33.6. Subtract 7 min cap holds at $500K each so you cut approx $30M from the salary meaning Bulls can be within a million of offering Melo a Max deal. That would leave a team of Melo-Rose-Noah-Butler-McD and still have all assets like Mirotic, Sac pick, CLE pick swap, etc for future building. And of course, Thibs and GarPax (who have done a pretty good job of building and filling in FAs below their drafted stars).

Their thought process has to be that if Melo agrees to come they can create a convincing enough threat of that to make Phil accept an S&T such that they don't have to. If the Knicks take Boozer ($16.8) and send JR ($12M over 2), Knicks only take on $5M in addl total salary and actually free up space for 2015. I know it's not as good as having Melo on board, but add in an asset like Mirotic and it's not a bad deal for Melo.

The key is getting Melo to agree to a)hardball the Knicks and/or b)come to a team for $21M without Taj. Of course he'd rather stay, take the $$$ and win. That goes without saying. But tha'ts not really a strong option, it's pretty risky so it really depends on what if anything Phil's heard/planned through backchannels. But then Melo knows from his own experience that even backchannel communications fall apart when the player in Q is presented with a max deal.

In the alternative - I like the Gasol pickup, bring Mirotic over. That gives the Bulls a lot of options to make a deal midseason (if Taj goes in a Love deal, Gasol steps in).

[kulaz3000]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

[MisterRoy]

So, Steve Kyler is saying

Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 4m
Dwight left 30 Mill last year ---> No he didn't... Left a fifth year that he'll get from Houston after third year

Does this mean we can give Melo that 5th year after his 3rd?

pretty much, its a small gamble on melos side. But that 5th year is overrated imo.

It's really is starting to look that way. Considering this, Melo coming to Chicago makes even more sense.

[Vince Strong]

The whole 5th year crap is overstated. Sign Melo to a 4 year deal with year 4 being a ETO. He opts out then we give him a multi year deal after.

Everyone saying this is forgetting the security a 5th year provides. If Melo pulls a Rose and has 2 knee injuries in years 2 and 3 - then those years on the back end of the contract are hugely important. Dont under estimate that...

[red222]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

Then why pursue Gasol at all knowing this buyout was coming?

[MisterRoy]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

Nah, maybe they got the impression that Gasol doesn't want to come for the money we can afford so we moved onto Mirotic.

OR...

We are negotiating a S&T with NY and we need to sign Mirotic first, then we trade away.

[nitetrain8603]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

Bulls can still s&t for Melo and keep mle to sign Mirotic.


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[nitetrain8603]

Bulls are currently at about $71M in committed payroll for 2014-15 ($68 per shamsports plus McD at about $1.5 plus Noah's 500K increase plus about 500K on Randolph w stretch buyout). Boozer ($16.8), Taj ($8), MDJ ($3.3), Snell ($1.5) = $29.6. Plus $4M in nonguaranteeds for a total of $33.6. Subtract 7 min cap holds at $500K each so you cut approx $30M from the salary meaning Bulls can be within a million of offering Melo a Max deal. That would leave a team of Melo-Rose-Noah-Butler-McD and still have all assets like Mirotic, Sac pick, CLE pick swap, etc for future building. And of course, Thibs and GarPax (who have done a pretty good job of building and filling in FAs below their drafted stars).

Their thought process has to be that if Melo agrees to come they can create a convincing enough threat of that to make Phil accept an S&T such that they don't have to. If the Knicks take Boozer ($16.8) and send JR ($12M over 2), Knicks only take on $5M in addl total salary and actually free up space for 2015. I know it's not as good as having Melo on board, but add in an asset like Mirotic and it's not a bad deal for Melo.

The key is getting Melo to agree to a)hardball the Knicks and/or b)come to a team for $21M without Taj. Of course he'd rather stay, take the $$$ and win. That goes without saying. But tha'ts not really a strong option, it's pretty risky so it really depends on what if anything Phil's heard/planned through backchannels. But then Melo knows from his own experience that even backchannel communications fall apart when the player in Q is presented with a max deal.

In the alternative - I like the Gasol pickup, bring Mirotic over. That gives the Bulls a lot of options to make a deal midseason (if Taj goes in a Love deal, Gasol steps in).

Excellent post


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[coldfish]

The whole 5th year crap is overstated. Sign Melo to a 4 year deal with year 4 being a ETO. He opts out then we give him a multi year deal after.

Everyone saying this is forgetting the security a 5th year provides. If Melo pulls a Rose and has 2 knee injuries in years 2 and 3 - then those years on the back end of the contract are hugely important. Dont under estimate that...

I mentioned this a few times. I don't know enough about it, but random actors have their body parts insured for millions of dollars.

Why couldn't Melo buy an insurance policy on himself? If he gets injured to the point where he can't play in the next 2 years, he gets millions from the insurance agency. If he doesn't, he opts out and gets his full max.

[randybrown]

The Knicks have no leverage of any kind. We don't have to deal with them one way or another. This decision is Melo's. If he wants to come to Chicago, he will be here next week. If NY wants a S&T where they take Boozer's expiring contract, they can garner a few assets out of the deal. If they ask for too much, screw them. We'll amnesty Boozer and send Dunleavy, Snell, Magic and Jimmy, if need be, to another team in a salary dump and NY gets zero.

Still, it just depends on Melo--not on Phil Jackson.

Knicks have some leverage over Chicago, its just exaggerated.
Media loves reporting that 5 yr bird max total.
In a reality, Melo uses an ETO before those 5 years are up.

They really don't. They have nothing. Melo is a FA. He is not under contract.

Look, the Bulls will have to dump salary if Melo says he wants to come here, regarless. The only question is who gets those players and assets. The salary we would have to dump are either on rookie deals or Mike Dunleavy. None of those assets will be hard to give away and it wouldn't surprise me if we actually come out of it with some future assets like 2nd round picks.

I would argue that holding a UFA's S&T rights is an asset, albeit a less valuable one compared to the last CBA. We in agreement for the most part.

[TyrusRose2425]

What exactly is Melo's 1st year salary if he takes the Knicks offer? Just curious.

[kulaz3000]

Ladies, it's not over until it's over. I think everyone needs to step off the ledge. I'm one of the biggest FO bashes and if I'm showing confidence in them, you should too. Let everything play out through Monday.


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This last part of the decision is on Melo, not the Bulls front office.

The Bulls front office did as good of a job as they could, and they should be credited for that. Now whether Melo decides to sign here or not, that's strictly up to him and entirely out of the Bulls organizations control. There is only so much you can woo a player, but at the end of the day you can't dictate another persons life decisions no matter how much of a great pitch you make.

If we get Melo the front office is redeem and gets a pass for any mistakes for the next two seasons at the very least, but if Melo stays with the Knicks I can't exactly blame them, though what they do next after that is critical and is definitely open to judgement and criticism.