The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[mysticbb]

Exactly.

:nod:

[Red Larrivee]

The more I think about it, Carmelo just makes too much more sense as Plan A.

Anthony costs $6.7m per season more over the next 4 years. So, what is left then?

We have a bigger hole at SF than we do PF, and at least by acquiring Melo, we can assure Mirotic has a spot here going forward.

Anthony played PF for the Knicks. And you really don't want to play Anthony and Mirotic on the court at the same time. And if you care about defense, you better not plan on playing Anthony and Mirotic together on the court ...

Chicago started Mike Dunleavy and Carlos Boozer this season and had arguably the best defense in the league. Defense is not about individual talent. Name one elite defender on the Charlotte Bobcats, who finished 4th in points allowed and 5th in dRTG.

I like Love and I would not be bummed about missing out on Melo, getting Love or vice versa. I just think Anthony makes more sense from a skill and fit standpoint because we don't have a starting small forward for next season and we need another player who can create from the perimeter. None of that is addressed in a Love deal, though he would still be really good for us.

[Michael Scott]

Melo just makes so much more sense when you put the two options side by side.

So, the older and worse player, who will make $6.7m more per season makes "so much more sense"? Really? Why? Because he scored 1 ppg more in 3 mpg more while taking 2.3 shots per game more? Love is more efficient as a scorer, he is the better passer, the overall better off-ball player and then the better impact-player defensively. But well, who cares about anything else, right?

Are you not considering the fact that we'd have to give up WAY more to land Love than Melo? Not to mention the fact that Taj is a better option at PF than Jimmy/ Dunleavy are at SF (and dont give me anymore of that crap that Melo played PF in NY- he'd obviously play SF here). So Melo would fill a tremendous need at the Wing position, whereas Love would be replacing (albeit upgrading) a position which we don't really have a problem.

A front court of Melo-Taj-Noah is infinitely better than Jimmy-Love-Noah

EDIT: Actually, what am I saying? Jimmy would probably be dealt for Love. I don't even know who would be our starting SF in that scenario, but I'm willing to bet he'd be a downgrade to Jimmy.

[coldfish]

He is under contract at least until summer 2015 so there would just be a normal trade. I assume the bulls would talk to love first and get him to agree to a 4 year extension to be signed after he is traded.

He can't extend that contract after a trade for 6 month. At that point, he may as well wait until the summer and then gets the 5yr max offer.

Im pretty sure the bulls can get him on an extension. Maybe i had the order backwards and it would have to be an extend and trade deal.

[red222]

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Marc J. Spears ✔ @SpearsNBAYahoo
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Suns interested in Love deal w/best assets Dragic, Bledsoe & picks.NBA sources say it will take full max deal to control free agent Bledsoe.

[kingkirk]

Had a dream last night that we traded for Love. I am getting emotionally invested. This is not good...

[Red Larrivee]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/475398101302128640[/tweet]

Marc J. Spears ✔ @SpearsNBAYahoo
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Suns interested in Love deal w/best assets Dragic, Bledsoe & picks.NBA sources say it will take full max deal to control free agent Bledsoe.

If they traded Dragic, Bledsoe and picks, then who is he supposed to play with in Phoenix?

[mysticbb]

Are you not considering the fact that we'd have to give up WAY more to land Love than Melo?

Why would that be "the fact"? Does Anthony come for free?

And I said already multiple times that I think the Bulls can get Love without giving up Gibson and Butler by just using future assets and still beating out all other potential offers except of a potential Cavs offer containing the #1 pick. So, and if Love costs really "WAY more" then I also said that Anthony would be the better option. I just don't see that this will be "WAY more" given the freaking fact that Anthony will costs $6.7m more and there is essentially no way the Knicks accept a low-ball offer in a S&T. They are the Knicks, not the Raptors, if Anthony really want to leave and no substantial assets are coming back in a S&T, they let the Bulls clear the capspace and then make that at least as expansive in terms of basketball assets as a trade for Love.

Not to mention the fact that Taj is a better option at PF than Jimmy/ Dunleavy are at SF

Sure, he is. But having Noah+Love+Gibson is my argument based on ...

and dont give me anymore of that crap that Melo played PF in NY- he'd obviously play SF here)

That is no crap, it is simply the fact that Anthony makes a bigger impact as PF than as SF. If you want to play him at SF; he will lose his main advantage in terms of overall impact on the game. That is the issue here. If the Bulls get Anthony, I seriously hope they not just planning on playing him as SF, while not acquiring an additional wing player. If you understand the current defensive settings in the NBA, you might understand that point.

. So Melo would fill a tremendous need at the Wing position, whereas Love would be replacing (albeit upgrading) a position which we don't really have a problem.

Love directly replaces Boozer. And yeah, that would be a massive upgrade.

Jimmy would probably be dealt for Love.

That would be a different story. If the Bulls have to give up Gibson+Butler in a deal for Love, I would argue differently. Just that I see a trade package around Mirotic, current and future picks as well as caprelief via unguaranteed contracts, which still beats all other team's offers. My argument would be about: Butler+Gibson+Love > Butler+Gibson+Anthony.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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Marc J. Spears [HEAVY CHECK MARK] @SpearsNBAYahoo
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Suns interested in Love deal w/best assets Dragic, Bledsoe & picks.NBA sources say it will take full max deal to control free agent Bledsoe.

If they traded Dragic, Bledsoe and picks, then who is he supposed to play with in Phoenix?

According to RAPM, Channing Frye is a top 20 player and Love is a plus defender - so they've got that!

[mysticbb]

Im pretty sure the bulls can get him on an extension.

Well, after the July moratorium, he could opt-in, then an extend-and-trade could happen, which would lock him into a deal going from 2015 to 2018 with the Bulls (for 4 seasons). Could be interesting for Love in the sense, that he would be 30 when looks for the next contract ...

Extend-and-trade makes less sense on draft day for Love, because he could only extend until 2017 then.

[Payt10]

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Marc J. Spears ✔ @SpearsNBAYahoo
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Suns interested in Love deal w/best assets Dragic, Bledsoe & picks.NBA sources say it will take full max deal to control free agent Bledsoe.

Why on earth would Phoenix want to do that? And why would Love go there with nobody to play with?

[mysticbb]

According to RAPM, Channing Frye is a top 20 player and Love is a plus defender - so they've got that!

RAPM does not tell you who the "top 20 players" are. ;) Try to understand what the stats is saying, then interpret that the correct way. Helps, avoiding such useless statements.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

According to RAPM, Channing Frye is a top 20 player and Love is a plus defender - so they've got that!

RAPM does not tell you who the "top 20 players" are. Try to understand what the stats is saying, then interpret that the correct way. Helps, avoiding such useless statements.

It was a joke genius. Try to avoid taking everything as literal and you'll avoid having to make useless posts.

[mysticbb]

It was a joke genius. Try to avoid taking everything as literal and you'll avoid having to make useless posts.

Try to be funny with your "jokes" next time or make more useful statements before in order to have such post make a difference between "jokes" and "serious posts". Thanks.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

It was a joke genius. Try to avoid taking everything as literal and you'll avoid having to make useless posts.

Try to be funny with your "jokes" next time or make more useful statements before in order to have such post make a difference between "jokes" and "serious posts". Thanks.

Two things:

1. You weren't quoted or mentioned in my post.

2. My jokes are hilarious.

[kingkirk]

RAPM does not tell you who the "top 20 players" are. Try to understand what the stats is saying, then interpret that the correct way. Helps, avoiding such useless statements.

Being arrogant and condescending is also useless, which you've been warned about on many occasions. Address your fellow posters accordingly, or don't post.

This is a public warning.

[Michael Scott]

Are you not considering the fact that we'd have to give up WAY more to land Love than Melo?

Why would that be "the fact"? Does Anthony come for free?

And I said already multiple times that I think the Bulls can get Love without giving up Gibson and Butler by just using future assets and still beating out all other potential offers except of a potential Cavs offer containing the #1 pick. So, and if Love costs really "WAY more" then I also said that Anthony would be the better option. I just don't see that this will be "WAY more" given the freaking fact that Anthony will costs $6.7m more and there is essentially no way the Knicks accept a low-ball offer in a S&T. They are the Knicks, not the Raptors, if Anthony really want to leave and no substantial assets are coming back in a S&T, they let the Bulls clear the capspace and then make that at least as expansive in terms of basketball assets as a trade for Love.

Not to mention the fact that Taj is a better option at PF than Jimmy/ Dunleavy are at SF

Sure, he is. But having Noah+Love+Gibson is my argument based on ...

and dont give me anymore of that crap that Melo played PF in NY- he'd obviously play SF here)

That is no crap, it is simply the fact that Anthony makes a bigger impact as PF than as SF. If you want to play him at SF; he will lose his main advantage in terms of overall impact on the game. That is the issue here. If the Bulls get Anthony, I seriously hope they not just planning on playing him as SF, while not acquiring an additional wing player. If you understand the current defensive settings in the NBA, you might understand that point.

. So Melo would fill a tremendous need at the Wing position, whereas Love would be replacing (albeit upgrading) a position which we don't really have a problem.

Love directly replaces Boozer. And yeah, that would be a massive upgrade.

Jimmy would probably be dealt for Love.

That would be a different story. If the Bulls have to give up Gibson+Butler in a deal for Love, I would argue differently. Just that I see a trade package around Mirotic, current and future picks as well as caprelief via unguaranteed contracts, which still beats all other team's offers. My argument would be about: Butler+Gibson+Love > Butler+Gibson+Anthony.

Few things. 1) you're still giving up WAY more if you part with future assets. Who cares if they're the future? You're still giving them up. God forbid, rose has another injury and never plays a meaningful minute again, while noah slowly ages, and all our future assets are invested in Love- so were in the same boat as the Knicks and Nets- we went all out and now have nothing to rebuild with when we will be destined for mediocrity with Love at the helm. Of course it all Depends how much we give up, but I'm still apprehensive.

2) I do understand defensive schemes. How about the fact that in The Thibs Era, rarely, if ever, do we see him play a small lineup. There is always 2 true bigs out there- so I highly doubt Melo would play the 4 here, when we could have Taj and Noah play the 4 and 5 and assure Thibs that he still has one of the deadliest defensive 4+5 combo in the game standing behind out perimeter guys when they get beat. And I think melo would be just fine as a 3. He's done it for the majority of his career. He likes the post up/ ISO from the right wing at about 19 feet- not your traditional PF placement.

3) Love is not replacing Boozer anymore; he'd be replacing Taj in that scenario, since Taj is the starting4 as of right now. So I stand by my argument that Melo's superiority to jimmy and dun heavily outweigh Love's to Taj.

Regardless, thanks for clarifying your stance on the Jimmy thing. If we got Love while keeping jimmy taj and noah, and some future assets, and adding some perimeter help, you won't hear complaints from me. Unfortunately, that seems far- fetched.

[coldfish]

Im pretty sure the bulls can get him on an extension.

Well, after the July moratorium, he could opt-in, then an extend-and-trade could happen, which would lock him into a deal going from 2015 to 2018 with the Bulls (for 4 seasons). Could be interesting for Love in the sense, that he would be 30 when looks for the next contract ...

Extend-and-trade makes less sense on draft day for Love, because he could only extend until 2017 then.

There is a sense of honor in the nba. The bulls could agree to the deal on draft day and pick the people minnesota wNts and then make the trade complete after july 1. I believe its relatively common. The boozer in cleveland story was huge news because it violated that handshake honor.

[Ice Man]

Dragic, Bledsoe and picks for a guy who will walk for free in 12 months, eh? Minnesota won't get a better deal than that. In fact, it won't get that deal either.

[patryk7754]

Wolves in: AA, boozer, CHA pick and CHI pick
Knicks in: MDJ, Shved, Turiaf, Snell, R. Brewer, Amundson, SAC pick, and 2017 CHI pick
Magic in: Taj
Bulls in: Melo and Love

Re-sign Kirk and maybe Mirotic if we can afford him plus a bunch of very good ring chasers