OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Fun discussions from a few months ago on the Foles Stans saying what they paid for Foles guarantees Foles will be the starter.

Man was this trade a huge mistake if he's not the starter. Could have gotten a backup for way less and not given up a pick.

Pace's approach to the offseason certainly has looked like a complete mess. I don't know what the thought process has been. I know they needed to get another quarterback. They did that, but they literally did it in the worst way possible.

What amazes me is this offense is pretty bad across the board. The offensive line, running backs, receivers, and tight end groups, and quarterbacks ALL have to rank in the bottom third in the league in their individual groups.

This team has 16 million in cap space. Montgomery is injured and may not be ready, and a guy like Fornette becomes available, how could you not pull the trigger at a cost of 4-5 million? It's such an easy move to make.

There is a refusal to upgrade the rest of the offense and somehow they think this is going to work because they brought in another average quarterback? Really bizarre stuff, especially seeing how if this year is a losing one, Pace is almost certainly gone and will NEVER get another position in the NFL as high as he is now.

[dice]

I don't understand what people complaining about Foles wanted Pace to do? Sign Cam? Watch him get hurt?

I know Foles will be solid and lead us to wins behind our D. I'm just concerned he will get hurt.

?

i dunno who the bigger injury risk is, but last season was the first unhealthy one of cam's career

[dice]

We have a stacked defense and about 10mil in cap, I believe. We need upgrades at RB and OLine and we have the flexibility to do so if Pace and Nagy eventually feel they need to add someone

thing is, we DON'T have a stacked defense. we have 3 players who we can depend on to be great when healthy (mack, hicks, jackson). and one of those guys was out most of last season. then there are a bunch of question marks and little depth. with no preseason to prepare and COVID in the air, depth is more important this season than any other. time will tell how much more

OT: a thomas brady team will be underdogs on sunday for the first time in 75 regular season games

[patryk7754]

We have a stacked defense and about 10mil in cap, I believe. We need upgrades at RB and OLine and we have the flexibility to do so if Pace and Nagy eventually feel they need to add someone

thing is, we DON'T have a stacked defense. we have 3 players who we can depend on to be great when healthy (mack, hicks, jackson). and one of those guys was out most of last season. then there are a bunch of question marks and little depth. with no preseason to prepare and COVID in the air, depth is more important this season than any other. time will tell how much more

OT: a thomas brady team will be underdogs on sunday for the first time in 75 regular season games

This just isn't true. Travathan is a pro bowl caliber LB. I guess you can say Roquan has availability questions but I think thats in the past and when plays he is one of the best ILBs in the NFL. With Gibson and Quinn you know what you're getting. They are above average talent who can have a pro bowl season out of the blue. Quinn had double digit sacks last season and that'll probably increase with Hicks and Mack. Gibson has been consistent his entire career and last season was his best season he made the probowl in 2014. Some of our depth left to go be starters but that's just a testament of how good Pace has been when it comes to bringing depth to the defense so I have no reason to believe that this year will be any different. There're two legit questions; Can Jaylon Johnson stay healthy and can Bilas be a starter at NT. If not there are options in FA with the 10 mil. Aqib Talib and Snacks Harrison come to mind.

[patryk7754]

I don't understand what people complaining about Foles wanted Pace to do? Sign Cam? Watch him get hurt?

I know Foles will be solid and lead us to wins behind our D. I'm just concerned he will get hurt.

?

i dunno who the bigger injury risk is, but last season was the first unhealthy one of cam's career

There are a few reasons why you pick Foles over Cam
1. Foles has familiarity with the system and coaching staff
2. There was a lot of uncertainty with Cam's injury since you couldn't bring him in for a physical
3. I think most people assumed Cam would get like 15mil
4. Last season may have been the first season were Cam missed significant time but Cam has always been banged up including foot and shoulder injuries that ultimately led to him missing basically all of last season
5. They still want Mitch to be the QB and bringing in Cam shuts that down day one

So you can justify signing Foles over him but I still think. For me, I didn't care about any of that stuff. Cam was my number 1, 2, and 3 choice. I bought into his instagram videos and all that. We'd easily be a playoff team and probably a SB contender with Cam. I think passing on Cam could be one of Pace's biggest mistakes. Especially since the max he'll be getting is 7ish mill and he seems to be the Patriots savior

[Chi town]

I don't understand what people complaining about Foles wanted Pace to do? Sign Cam? Watch him get hurt?

I know Foles will be solid and lead us to wins behind our D. I'm just concerned he will get hurt.

?

i dunno who the bigger injury risk is, but last season was the first unhealthy one of cam's career

There are a few reasons why you pick Foles over Cam
1. Foles has familiarity with the system and coaching staff
2. There was a lot of uncertainty with Cam's injury since you couldn't bring him in for a physical
3. I think most people assumed Cam would get like 15mil
4. Last season may have been the first season were Cam missed significant time but Cam has always been banged up including foot and shoulder injuries that ultimately led to him missing basically all of last season
5. They still want Mitch to be the QB and bringing in Cam shuts that down day one

So you can justify signing Foles over him but I still think. For me, I didn't care about any of that stuff. Cam was my number 1, 2, and 3 choice. I bought into his instagram videos and all that. We'd easily be a playoff team and probably a SB contender with Cam. I think passing on Cam could be one of Pace's biggest mistakes. Especially since the max he'll be getting is 7ish mill and he seems to be the Patriots savior

Agreed.

[dice]

We have a stacked defense and about 10mil in cap, I believe. We need upgrades at RB and OLine and we have the flexibility to do so if Pace and Nagy eventually feel they need to add someone

thing is, we DON'T have a stacked defense. we have 3 players who we can depend on to be great when healthy (mack, hicks, jackson). and one of those guys was out most of last season. then there are a bunch of question marks and little depth. with no preseason to prepare and COVID in the air, depth is more important this season than any other. time will tell how much more

OT: a thomas brady team will be underdogs on sunday for the first time in 75 regular season games

This just isn't true. Travathan is a pro bowl caliber LB. I guess you can say Roquan has availability questions but I think thats in the past and when plays he is one of the best ILBs in the NFL. With Gibson and Quinn you know what you're getting. They are above average talent who can have a pro bowl season out of the blue. Quinn had double digit sacks last season and that'll probably increase with Hicks and Mack. Gibson has been consistent his entire career and last season was his best season he made the probowl in 2014. Some of our depth left to go be starters but that's just a testament of how good Pace has been when it comes to bringing depth to the defense so I have no reason to believe that this year will be any different. There're two legit questions; Can Jaylon Johnson stay healthy and can Bilas be a starter at NT. If not there are options in FA with the 10 mil. Aqib Talib and Snacks Harrison come to mind.

-travathan is coming off the worst season of his career. maybe it was a fluke down year, but it makes him a question mark

-any player having the potential for a "pro bowl season out of the blue" is also a question mark

-quinn is a wildly variable performer over the course of his career. that makes him a question mark. and he played with one of the most double-teamed edge rushers in the league LAST year in demarcus lawrence. that juiced his numbers. mack was double teamed on 21% of snaps in 2019 (up from 2018 due to hicks missing the bulk of the season). in comparison, lawrence was double teamed on 25%

-"some of our depth left to become starters" because we didn't have the money to pay them. partly because the bill comes due on khalil mack, with his cap hit jumping from $11.9 to $26.6. and pace HASN'T magically brought in bargain basement depth, mainly because he traded away a significant amount of 2019 and 2020 draft capital, again in part due to the mack acquisition. plus, any young depth that has been brought in will not have the benefit of preseason games to develop

[dougthonus]

-travathan is coming off the worst season of his career. maybe it was a fluke down year, but it makes him a question mark

-any player having the potential for a "pro bowl season out of the blue" is also a question mark

-quinn is a wildly variable performer over the course of his career. that makes him a question mark. and he played with one of the most double-teamed edge rushers in the league LAST year in demarcus lawrence. that juiced his numbers. mack was double teamed on 21% of snaps in 2019 (up from 2018 due to hicks missing the bulk of the season). in comparison, lawrence was double teamed on 25%

-"some of our depth left to become starters" because we didn't have the money to pay them. partly because the bill comes due on khalil mack, with his cap hit jumping from $11.9 to $26.6. and pace HASN'T magically brought in bargain basement depth, mainly because he traded away a significant amount of 2019 and 2020 draft capital, again in part due to the mack acquisition. plus, any young depth that has been brought in will not have the benefit of preseason games to develop

I think there is a lot of reason to be extremely hopeful about the Bears defense this year. Their pass rush has a good chance to be the best in the league which should put everyone else in a great position. There are questions of course, but Quinn, Hicks, and Mack is a murderers row to rush the passer IMO.

I don't have any faith in anyone on the offensive side of the ball, you're going to need to hope some magic happens there. IF they have a good season it will be like Denver's superbowl run with Manning where the offense does just enough and the defense just suffocates people.

I don't expect that to be the outcome, but it's a reasonable enough possibility that their defense could carry them to 12 wins that that I'll be intrigued until they fall apart.

[dice]

-travathan is coming off the worst season of his career. maybe it was a fluke down year, but it makes him a question mark

-any player having the potential for a "pro bowl season out of the blue" is also a question mark

-quinn is a wildly variable performer over the course of his career. that makes him a question mark. and he played with one of the most double-teamed edge rushers in the league LAST year in demarcus lawrence. that juiced his numbers. mack was double teamed on 21% of snaps in 2019 (up from 2018 due to hicks missing the bulk of the season). in comparison, lawrence was double teamed on 25%

-"some of our depth left to become starters" because we didn't have the money to pay them. partly because the bill comes due on khalil mack, with his cap hit jumping from $11.9 to $26.6. and pace HASN'T magically brought in bargain basement depth, mainly because he traded away a significant amount of 2019 and 2020 draft capital, again in part due to the mack acquisition. plus, any young depth that has been brought in will not have the benefit of preseason games to develop

I think there is a lot of reason to be extremely hopeful about the Bears defense this year. Their pass rush has a good chance to be the best in the league which should put everyone else in a great position. There are questions of course, but Quinn, Hicks, and Mack is a murderers row to rush the passer IMO.

I don't have any faith in anyone on the offensive side of the ball, you're going to need to hope some magic happens there. IF they have a good season it will be like Denver's superbowl run with Manning where the offense does just enough and the defense just suffocates people.

I don't expect that to be the outcome, but it's a reasonable enough possibility that their defense could carry them to 12 wins that that I'll be intrigued until they fall apart.

should be interesting, for sure. teams won't be able to run plays away from mack as much, nor double him as much, nor run the ball as effectively w/ hicks back in the lineup. so they're left with short drop backs/screen passes as primary methods of combating the pass rush. if trevathan can return to form on pass coverage over the middle it's gonna be real tough for opposing offenses to put together long drives

[ATRAIN53]

man......

Read on Twitter

I really think draft picks don't need to impress the GM
GM's job should be to bring them in front of the other players and see who leaves an impression on them.

It's had to watch the Bears knowing so many QB's have been shuffled the last few years and we end up with Foles and drafted Trubisky

[Susan]

man......

Read on Twitter

I really think draft picks don't need to impress the GM
GM's job should be to bring them in front of the other players and see who leaves an impression on them.

It's had to watch the Bears knowing so many QB's have been shuffled the last few years and we end up with Foles and drafted Trubisky

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/dan-patrick-tom-brady-nearly-signed-chicago-bears-free-agent-01ehwgkcdk83

"Did you know that the Bears were in the final list of teams for Tom Brady?... The final list that Brady was looking at, the Chargers, the Bears, and the Buccaneers. I was told this yesterday. I said, 'Wait a minute. The Bears?' [The source] told me yes.

It'll be interesting to watch what happens in GB with Rodgers. He's clearly not happy with them and they're going to move on from him before long.

[patryk7754]

man......

Read on Twitter

I really think draft picks don't need to impress the GM
GM's job should be to bring them in front of the other players and see who leaves an impression on them.

It's had to watch the Bears knowing so many QB's have been shuffled the last few years and we end up with Foles and drafted Trubisky

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/dan-patrick-tom-brady-nearly-signed-chicago-bears-free-agent-01ehwgkcdk83

"Did you know that the Bears were in the final list of teams for Tom Brady?... The final list that Brady was looking at, the Chargers, the Bears, and the Buccaneers. I was told this yesterday. I said, 'Wait a minute. The Bears?' [The source] told me yes.

It'll be interesting to watch what happens in GB with Rodgers. He's clearly not happy with them and they're going to move on from him before long.

I mean the bears are the only option right? They won't be able to trade him because of the cap hit that comes with him. If playing the in the division is important then the bears seem to be the only options since the lions and the Vikings have Stafford and Cousins. Watching podcasts and shows there seem to be a good amount of people who think this is Rodgers final season with the Packers but i think its a general consensus that he won't last longer than two more seasons which works out for us when it comes to QBs under contract. And Farve said he thinks Arod should play for the bears.

[patryk7754]

I think there's a lot of overreaction to the Foles trade now that Mitch has been named the starter.

I don't think it is an overreaction. I think it is the same complaints being made at the time of the trade have even more validity today than they did when the trade was made.

- Not good enough to give up a pick for
- Too much guaranteed money
- Better options will be available for less on the FA market
- Limits our ability to improve the cast around whichever QB starts

I'll agree with the first three points. But the last one is kind of irrelevant. We were done making major moves this season so Foles contract doesn't really hinder that. I'm not sure what Foles contract looks like past this season but its likely very easy to get out of after this season. It's very easy to create cap space and Pace has done some of the most creative things yet to create cap space. Look at what the cowboys, chiefs, and rams did this offseason to make cap space.

I say its an overreaction because what's the worst-case scenario? We won't be able to trade for guys like Hopkins? We most likely wouldn't try to make that move even if we had 50 mil in cap. Worst thing is that we gave up a 4th rounder but having a QB that can lead a team to the playoffs is more valuable than a 4th rounder.

Did we give up more than he's worth? Most likely. But if he leads this team to the playoffs and even wins a game or two then who cares about his 6 mil cap hit or the 4th rounder we gave up or that he had to wait two or three games to become the starter. And if never becomes the starter, that'll be because Mitch is playing to well to be benched and that's what we should all want. And Mitch will be have to be playing really really well because Nagy will take the first opportunity he gets to bench him.

[Jeffster81]

I mean the bears are the only option right? They won't be able to trade him because of the cap hit that comes with him. If playing the in the division is important then the bears seem to be the only options since the lions and the Vikings have Stafford and Cousins. Watching podcasts and shows there seem to be a good amount of people who think this is Rodgers final season with the Packers but i think its a general consensus that he won't last longer than two more seasons which works out for us when it comes to QBs under contract. And Farve said he thinks Arod should play for the bears.

I actually think Rodgers will end up in Dallas. Yeah, I know him and McCarthy don't get along but Jerry Jones loves those *BIG* names like Rodgers and probably will pursue him if he becomes available. IMO, it's one of the reasons why Dallas is so hesitant about extended Dak. If this scenario plays out then Dak will become available, and I would not mind the Bears pursing Dak.

[patryk7754]

I mean the bears are the only option right? They won't be able to trade him because of the cap hit that comes with him. If playing the in the division is important then the bears seem to be the only options since the lions and the Vikings have Stafford and Cousins. Watching podcasts and shows there seem to be a good amount of people who think this is Rodgers final season with the Packers but i think its a general consensus that he won't last longer than two more seasons which works out for us when it comes to QBs under contract. And Farve said he thinks Arod should play for the bears.

I actually think Rodgers will end up in Dallas. Yeah, I know him and McCarthy don't get along but Jerry Jones loves those *BIG* names like Rodgers and probably will pursue him if he becomes available. IMO, it's one of the reasons why Dallas is so hesitant about extended Dak. If this scenario plays out then Dak will become available, and I would not mind the Bears pursing Dak.

I think the top teams are
1. 49ers
2. Bears
3. Raiders

[HearshotKDS]

Robert Quinn listed as doubtful for game because of the ankle. What a disaster if he misses multiple games, the Bears have terrible depth behind him. 5 years $70M.

[dice]

I mean the bears are the only option right? They won't be able to trade him because of the cap hit that comes with him. If playing the in the division is important then the bears seem to be the only options since the lions and the Vikings have Stafford and Cousins. Watching podcasts and shows there seem to be a good amount of people who think this is Rodgers final season with the Packers but i think its a general consensus that he won't last longer than two more seasons which works out for us when it comes to QBs under contract. And Farve said he thinks Arod should play for the bears.

I actually think Rodgers will end up in Dallas. Yeah, I know him and McCarthy don't get along but Jerry Jones loves those *BIG* names like Rodgers and probably will pursue him if he becomes available. IMO, it's one of the reasons why Dallas is so hesitant about extended Dak. If this scenario plays out then Dak will become available, and I would not mind the Bears pursing Dak.

I think the top teams are
1. 49ers
2. Bears
3. Raiders

given that his issues in dallas are strictly about money, i'm guessing that the favorites for his services are whoever pays him the most money. and being QB for the cowboys comes with a financial premium that goes beyond salary (including no state income tax)

i still find it hard to believe that jerry will let him walk. he's a prideful and loyal guy (note how hard it was for him to let go of the golden ginger as coach) and he drafted dak

[dice]

home teams in baseball are 350-301 this season. over past several seasons home team only has .507 winning percentage, so there's clearly a matter of sample size here. still, it goes a long way toward eliminating the notion that home field advantage is nearly all about the fans. and in football i would think that with winter weather differences and at least some fans, there will still be significant home field advantage in play this season. it just won't be as pronounced because crown noise will not be a factor

with that said, here are the oddsmaker rankings of teams on the bears schedule (league avg. 16.5):

road

24.5 lions
19.5 falcons
29 panthers
19.5 rams
14.5 titans
14.5 pack
9.5 vikings
31 jags

avg: 20.25

home

26.5 giants
9.5 colts
5 bucs
4 saints
9.5 vikings
24.5 lions
23 texans
14.5 pack

avg: 14.56

relatively favorable schedule overall, although you'd prefer to face tougher teams early in the season before teams have gelled, as opposed to the soft lions/giants start to the season

[dice]

I think there's a lot of overreaction to the Foles trade now that Mitch has been named the starter.

I don't think it is an overreaction. I think it is the same complaints being made at the time of the trade have even more validity today than they did when the trade was made.

- Not good enough to give up a pick for
- Too much guaranteed money
- Better options will be available for less on the FA market
- Limits our ability to improve the cast around whichever QB starts

I'll agree with the first three points. But the last one is kind of irrelevant. We were done making major moves this season so Foles contract doesn't really hinder that.

?

it's not like foles was traded for after no other moves could be made. and surely it was in the forefront of pace's mind what he would need to trade for him even as he was making other acquisitions. so any way you cut it, the money/assets set aside for him impacted other moves

and people have noted that there's still money left over to be spent. there would be more of it if we hadn't acquired foles

Worst thing is that we gave up a 4th rounder but having a QB that can lead a team to the playoffs is more valuable than a 4th rounder.

trubisky has led us to the playoffs. foles has done it 2-3 times in his 8 year career. it's his playoff performance that has burnished his reputation

Did we give up more than he's worth? Most likely. But if he leads this team to the playoffs and even wins a game or two then who cares about his 6 mil cap hit or the 4th rounder we gave up or that he had to wait two or three games to become the starter. And if never becomes the starter, that'll be because Mitch is playing to well to be benched and that's what we should all want. And Mitch will be have to be playing really really well because Nagy will take the first opportunity he gets to bench him.

i agree with all of that. it's just that this team is not good enough to be making halfway moves in the hopes of contending. if pace was interested in maximizing his chances of making a deep run, he should've rolled the dice on trubisky and fortified the roster in other ways. could it work out anyway? sure. if trubisky fails as expected or gets injured and foles somehow takes the team on a magical run, the 4th round pick will be a historical footnote

[fleet]

Robert Quinn listed as doubtful for game because of the ankle. What a disaster if he misses multiple games, the Bears have terrible depth behind him. 5 years $70M.

and Mack a knee