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2025 Draft prospects - thread 2

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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1881 » by kulaz3000 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 4:48 am

Jvaughn wrote:
kulaz3000 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
From memory, a lot of people on this board wanted Porter Jr. Quite a few people thought it was worth the swing. I think some people also liked Miles Bridges. I don't remember SGA being on anyone's radar here.


Isn't this discussion irrelevant though? I know we are comparing a player with a former player, but you can't then compare the drafts, because no two drafts are alike.

I just don't think it's fair to say that we drafted WCJ over some other players, and in turn, we should pass on a similar player because of that. And just because they are similar doesn't mean that their trajectory will be the same also, though that would still be a more fair discussion than comparing the draft classes.


Their trajectory may not be the same, but Sorber has a lot of the limitations WCJ has/had. Even if his career doesn't play out the same, he's still going to be undersized and not athletically gifted enough to be a rim runner. If we're going for C, there are about 5-6 C's I'd rather take a chance on.


I think that's definitely fair. I just personally think that Sorber has a higher basketball IQ than WCJ, and can do more to impact the game when shots aren't falling. I think he is a lot scrappier than WCJ, and has shown signs of being an intelligent basketball player that sees plays quite well, despite his execution not quite being there yet.

I'd be okay if we drafted him personally, and he clearly doesn't come with the same high reward as some of the other players, but I still think he will be better player than WCJ. I don't think he is all that undersized either, he measured 6′ 9.25” barefoot, so on the court he is 6''10 which along with his wing span makes him more than suitable at the 5.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1882 » by DuckIII » Tue Jun 10, 2025 4:51 am

Jcool0 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
I don't even know if it was an option(probably not), but on draft night my hope was that we traded down with LA for their two picks so we could get Shai and MPJ.


From memory, a lot of people on this board wanted Porter Jr. Quite a few people thought it was worth the swing. I think some people also liked Miles Bridges. I don't remember SGA being on anyone's radar here.


If anyone is interested:

NBA Draft 2018 7.0: Lucky #7 and 22 - This is It!

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1717029&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 6.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1715795&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1714083&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 Edition #4 : Lucky #7 and 22

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1711277&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1708281&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 NBA Draft 2.0 - pick #7, #22 . - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1707041&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 Draft (Merged). New poll

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1698205&hilit=2018+nba+draft


I don’t know how to search those for my own posts but here is my memory:

1. Hated MPJ at 7 (and was right)

2. Loved Doncic, called him a generational talent and prodigy in the pick and roll (and was right)

3. Wanted Mikal Bridges at 7 (which was right)

4. Hated Tre Young and thought he would be a bust (was not right, but I think he’s actually more harmful than a bust and I still hate his game)

So if I remember correctly that’s one draft I had a decent handle on. If my memory is incorrect, however, please disregard this post and keep the proof to yourself.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1883 » by HomoSapien » Tue Jun 10, 2025 4:59 am

DuckIII wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
From memory, a lot of people on this board wanted Porter Jr. Quite a few people thought it was worth the swing. I think some people also liked Miles Bridges. I don't remember SGA being on anyone's radar here.


If anyone is interested:

NBA Draft 2018 7.0: Lucky #7 and 22 - This is It!

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1717029&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 6.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1715795&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1714083&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 Edition #4 : Lucky #7 and 22

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1711277&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1708281&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 NBA Draft 2.0 - pick #7, #22 . - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1707041&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 Draft (Merged). New poll

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1698205&hilit=2018+nba+draft


I don’t know how to search those for my own posts but here is my memory:

1. Hated MPJ at 7 (and was right)

2. Loved Doncic, called him a generational talent and prodigy in the pick and roll (and was right)

3. Wanted Mikal Bridges at 7 (which was right)

4. Hated Tre Young and thought he would be a bust (was not right, but I think he’s actually more harmful than a bust and K still hate his game)

So if I remember correctly that’s one draft I had a decent handle on. If my memory is incorrect, however, please disregard this post and keep the proof to yourself.



MPJ at 7 would have turned out to be a pretty reasonable pick. He's not a top 7 player in his draft class, but he's probably top 10 or so.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1884 » by HomoSapien » Tue Jun 10, 2025 5:03 am

nomorezorro wrote:shh don't blow up my spot with the bamba part. let's all just focus on that escstatic line


I was high on Bamba and still think he looks pretty damn good whenever he gets a chance. I don't know if he sucks in the locker room or is lazy or something, but his skillset was/is legit.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1885 » by DuckIII » Tue Jun 10, 2025 5:04 am

HomoSapien wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
If anyone is interested:

NBA Draft 2018 7.0: Lucky #7 and 22 - This is It!

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1717029&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 6.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1715795&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1714083&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 Edition #4 : Lucky #7 and 22

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1711277&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1708281&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 NBA Draft 2.0 - pick #7, #22 . - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1707041&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 Draft (Merged). New poll

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1698205&hilit=2018+nba+draft


I don’t know how to search those for my own posts but here is my memory:

1. Hated MPJ at 7 (and was right)

2. Loved Doncic, called him a generational talent and prodigy in the pick and roll (and was right)

3. Wanted Mikal Bridges at 7 (which was right)

4. Hated Tre Young and thought he would be a bust (was not right, but I think he’s actually more harmful than a bust and K still hate his game)

So if I remember correctly that’s one draft I had a decent handle on. If my memory is incorrect, however, please disregard this post and keep the proof to yourself.



MPJ at 7 would have turned out to be a pretty reasonable pick. He's not a too 7 player in his draft class, but he's probably top 10 or so.


Yeah, and if signed to a reasonable deal would be even less problematic.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1886 » by HomoSapien » Tue Jun 10, 2025 5:08 am

DuckIII wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
I don’t know how to search those for my own posts but here is my memory:

1. Hated MPJ at 7 (and was right)

2. Loved Doncic, called him a generational talent and prodigy in the pick and roll (and was right)

3. Wanted Mikal Bridges at 7 (which was right)

4. Hated Tre Young and thought he would be a bust (was not right, but I think he’s actually more harmful than a bust and K still hate his game)

So if I remember correctly that’s one draft I had a decent handle on. If my memory is incorrect, however, please disregard this post and keep the proof to yourself.



MPJ at 7 would have turned out to be a pretty reasonable pick. He's not a too 7 player in his draft class, but he's probably top 10 or so.


Yeah, and if signed to a reasonable deal would be even less problematic.


Sure but that's unrelated to whether or not he would have been a good draft pick.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1887 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Tue Jun 10, 2025 5:10 am

DuckIII wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
From memory, a lot of people on this board wanted Porter Jr. Quite a few people thought it was worth the swing. I think some people also liked Miles Bridges. I don't remember SGA being on anyone's radar here.


If anyone is interested:

NBA Draft 2018 7.0: Lucky #7 and 22 - This is It!

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1717029&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 6.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1715795&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1714083&hilit=2018+nba+draft

NBA Draft 2018 Edition #4 : Lucky #7 and 22

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1711277&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 draft 3.0. #7, #22 - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1708281&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 NBA Draft 2.0 - pick #7, #22 . - Merged

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1707041&hilit=2018+nba+draft

2018 Draft (Merged). New poll

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1698205&hilit=2018+nba+draft


I don’t know how to search those for my own posts but here is my memory:

1. Hated MPJ at 7 (and was right)

2. Loved Doncic, called him a generational talent and prodigy in the pick and roll (and was right)

3. Wanted Mikal Bridges at 7 (which was right)

4. Hated Tre Young and thought he would be a bust (was not right, but I think he’s actually more harmful than a bust and I still hate his game)

So if I remember correctly that’s one draft I had a decent handle on. If my memory is incorrect, however, please disregard this post and keep the proof to yourself.


Check out the second round of that draft did more teams hit on players overall than in the first?

I was very anti Porter. I loved Bagley and JJJ that draft.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1888 » by nomorezorro » Tue Jun 10, 2025 5:15 am

HomoSapien wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:shh don't blow up my spot with the bamba part. let's all just focus on that escstatic line


I was high on Bamba and still think he looks pretty damn good whenever he gets a chance. I don't know if he sucks in the locker room or is lazy or something, but his skillset was/is legit.


i think you could get passable backup big minutes from him still, but he's unreliable on offense and not good enough on defense to make up for it. quick google turns up orlando fans talking about how a bad motor/lack of mobility + strength/questionable bbiq did him in

everyone has to have at least one High Upside Theoretical Two-Way Big Man Prospect they fall in love with before they learn that the shooting that materializes during pre-draft workouts often doesn't translate to the NBA level, and elite NCAA defensive performances are often predicated on size advantages that don't hold up in the pros (while obscuring mobility disadvantages that don't materialize until the pros)
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1889 » by Repeat 3-peat » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:27 am

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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1890 » by sco » Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:21 pm

Chi town wrote:https://youtu.be/CBrrgr_oboI?si=ia20Jx4Y_3shoSso

KJ Noa Coward all there at 12.

I guess guys want to be controversial, but Queen, Bryant and Richardson all going before 12 is crazy.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1891 » by MGB8 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 2:33 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:shh don't blow up my spot with the bamba part. let's all just focus on that escstatic line


I was high on Bamba and still think he looks pretty damn good whenever he gets a chance. I don't know if he sucks in the locker room or is lazy or something, but his skillset was/is legit.


This gets to my take away from looking at the old threads - the big unknowns when evaluating a player.

First is character - both “personal character” and “basketball character”, the latter which includes but is not limited to work ethic. How much does a guy love the game? Love winning? How willing is he to sacrifice personal goals for what is best for the team? Etc., etc.

Ayton looked like a can’t miss guy, and the physical tools were there… but less in the character department, and especially the basketball character department, than anticipated. Bamba too, I guess. Some skills that were flashed in workouts that just didn’t translate, but something else clearly going on. He also became a bit stiffer as he aged (don’t we all).

Doncic I was afraid of - didn’t know if his ability to drive would translate from Europe to the US. It clearly did. Maybe greater amount of space opens things up (like it does for some when going from NCAA to NBA). He worked on shooting, too. Does that bode well for a Saraf? But then you look at a Killian Hayes (I know different draft).

Still, the limitation that we’re concerning do exist, are weaknesses (defense, ability to hamper him with very good defensive wings moreso than, say, a prime Lebron who could just overcome through athleticism).

Lots of athletes in that draft that just didn’t develop for whatever reason. Knox, Brown, Smith, Okogie. Flashes but not ever really put together. OTOH, you had Brunson - does that speak well for Jace Richardson (similar background, production, limitations) or just an outlier?

That brings to the 2nd hard to know (beyond character) - which I’ll sum up as “where is a guy on his growth potential curve?” Are there limitation on basketball IQ or processing that mean a lower ceiling than what athleticism suggests? Personality / aggressiveness issues?

Small physical things - e.g., Kris Dunn looks like he has some variable tightness either in arm, shoulder or wrist (or all 3), that messes with him ever becoming a truly consistent shooter. (You also had what happened to Fultz).
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1892 » by MGB8 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 2:35 pm

nomorezorro wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:shh don't blow up my spot with the bamba part. let's all just focus on that escstatic line


I was high on Bamba and still think he looks pretty damn good whenever he gets a chance. I don't know if he sucks in the locker room or is lazy or something, but his skillset was/is legit.


i think you could get passable backup big minutes from him still, but he's unreliable on offense and not good enough on defense to make up for it. quick google turns up orlando fans talking about how a bad motor/lack of mobility + strength/questionable bbiq did him in

everyone has to have at least one High Upside Theoretical Two-Way Big Man Prospect they fall in love with before they learn that the shooting that materializes during pre-draft workouts often doesn't translate to the NBA level, and elite NCAA defensive performances are often predicated on size advantages that don't hold up in the pros (while obscuring mobility disadvantages that don't materialize until the pros)


Bamba also appears to move less well now than he did then. Which isn’t a shock - more flexibility and quick twitch in youth gives way to more core strength but stiffness later on, just depends on genes, how much, how quick, etc…
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1893 » by Chi town » Tue Jun 10, 2025 2:43 pm

sco wrote:
Chi town wrote:https://youtu.be/CBrrgr_oboI?si=ia20Jx4Y_3shoSso

KJ Noa Coward all there at 12.

I guess guys want to be controversial, but Queen, Bryant and Richardson all going before 12 is crazy.


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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1894 » by ImSlower » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:02 pm

Sam Vecenie came out with his 200 page NBA draft PDF.

This draft is particularly volatile so it's definitely best to read over multiple pundits' opinions, and watch plenty of footage ourselves. But I always look forward to Vecenie's massive yearly draft guides.

He's got what I'd say are the standard top 6 guys (Cooper his own tier, Harper a tier below, then Kon/VJ/Ace/Tre below that). Then 7 through 12 as possible starters/all-star potential. His fifth tier of rotation potential/risers is big, 13 to 26. Demin he plugs in at 25 overall.

This isn't a mock, simply his big board. Really big. He has tons of data for eighty possible draftees! The man does *work*!
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1895 » by Guru » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:15 pm

Chi town wrote:
sco wrote:
Chi town wrote:https://youtu.be/CBrrgr_oboI?si=ia20Jx4Y_3shoSso

KJ Noa Coward all there at 12.

I guess guys want to be controversial, but Queen, Bryant and Richardson all going before 12 is crazy.


Yep. Hunting views


I think Queen and Bryant should go before or around 12
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1896 » by nomorezorro » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:16 pm

vecenie's "tier 4" (players ranked 7-12) is almost exactly the group i'd want us to consider at 12

Image

swap out queen for essengue and i'm content with any one of those guys
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1897 » by kodo » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:32 pm

MGB8 wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
I was high on Bamba and still think he looks pretty damn good whenever he gets a chance. I don't know if he sucks in the locker room or is lazy or something, but his skillset was/is legit.


i think you could get passable backup big minutes from him still, but he's unreliable on offense and not good enough on defense to make up for it. quick google turns up orlando fans talking about how a bad motor/lack of mobility + strength/questionable bbiq did him in

everyone has to have at least one High Upside Theoretical Two-Way Big Man Prospect they fall in love with before they learn that the shooting that materializes during pre-draft workouts often doesn't translate to the NBA level, and elite NCAA defensive performances are often predicated on size advantages that don't hold up in the pros (while obscuring mobility disadvantages that don't materialize until the pros)


Bamba also appears to move less well now than he did then. Which isn’t a shock - more flexibility and quick twitch in youth gives way to more core strength but stiffness later on, just depends on genes, how much, how quick, etc…


I was also big on Bamba during the draft, and now it's apparent he's lacking on some of the non-measurables that really hurt centers. Slow hips for sure, when a ball handler crosses over he can't swivel quickly while moving. Bad or average hands is another, hard to tell since teams don't give him the ball in tough situations but they don't look great.

Relative to now, I've seen all these criticisms of Maluach. Slow hips, bad hands. Opposing teams actually offensively rebound better when he's on court when someone that giant should have the opposite effect. Not sure how valid they are, but there's a real path for Maluach to be no better than Mo even though all his measurables are amazing.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1898 » by kodo » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:37 pm

nomorezorro wrote:vecenie's "tier 4" (players ranked 7-12) is almost exactly the group i'd want us to consider at 12

Image

swap out queen for essengue and i'm content with any one of those guys


Vecenie is very accurate on the draft mock based on what he's hearing from his sources, although his personal analysis is whatever (he was pretty down on Matas and thought he would be a bust, for example. Ultimately as a mock he was correct Matas dropped a ton but he's actually one of the best players from that draft).

3 months ago it would have been crazy to think
- Bailey was going to drop to #6, he was #2 going into this season
- Carter Bryant & Coward would be going ahead of Maluach
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1899 » by HomoSapien » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:49 pm

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I get the appeal, but if he is our guy we better trade down for two picks to get him.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#1900 » by Jvaughn » Tue Jun 10, 2025 4:02 pm

MGB8 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:shh don't blow up my spot with the bamba part. let's all just focus on that escstatic line


I was high on Bamba and still think he looks pretty damn good whenever he gets a chance. I don't know if he sucks in the locker room or is lazy or something, but his skillset was/is legit.


This gets to my take away from looking at the old threads - the big unknowns when evaluating a player.

First is character - both “personal character” and “basketball character”, the latter which includes but is not limited to work ethic. How much does a guy love the game? Love winning? How willing is he to sacrifice personal goals for what is best for the team? Etc., etc.

Ayton looked like a can’t miss guy, and the physical tools were there… but less in the character department, and especially the basketball character department, than anticipated. Bamba too, I guess. Some skills that were flashed in workouts that just didn’t translate, but something else clearly going on. He also became a bit stiffer as he aged (don’t we all).

Doncic I was afraid of - didn’t know if his ability to drive would translate from Europe to the US. It clearly did. Maybe greater amount of space opens things up (like it does for some when going from NCAA to NBA). He worked on shooting, too. Does that bode well for a Saraf? But then you look at a Killian Hayes (I know different draft).

Still, the limitation that we’re concerning do exist, are weaknesses (defense, ability to hamper him with very good defensive wings moreso than, say, a prime Lebron who could just overcome through athleticism).


Definitely on the bolded part. I remember people questioning Anthony Edwards character, but it literally stemmed from him saying he loved football as much or more than basketball. His work ethic and desire to be great were never actually in question. Yet, you still had teams through the draft process that were questioning him.

Now my issue with the character topic is when teams (Bulls FO) prioritize character over skill. We had a long streak of drafting high character low ceiling players because we didn't have the right lockerrom leadership in place. Good coaches get the most out of talent, regardless of the situation. It's why San Antonio was so good for so long even when they had players like Stephen Jackson come through.
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