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Around The NBA

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DASMACKDOWN
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1901 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:07 pm

DuckIII wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
fleet wrote:Minny may have screwed this up. Of course, the only (top) player that’s actually played professionally has a head start.


Yeah. Early to tell- 2 years from now Edwards could be 25 ppg and a good defender. And LaMelo can still very well end up rough with the scoring short-comings. But I'll make claim that nobody's had his highlight-passing since Kidd. Few have almost been there: Rubio, Rondo, Paul, Nash, but LaMelo's able to do the Magic, Kidd & Jason Williams thing of making the pass more fun to watch than the finish, and like Kidd, he's a virtually useless scorer.


LaMelo is uniquely exciting to watch. I have to admit, to me, vision and creative passing is the most exciting element a player can have. As a spectator. But as you note that doesn’t mean he’ll be a great player. And to further the point, I agree his vision reminds me of Kidd the most. But Kidd was an amazing and relentless defender as well.

If Melo can’t shoot and can’t defend, it’s a huge problem.
With his passing he can get by without one of those things, but not both.


I worry we have seen this story already in his brother. There is nothing that Melo can do that Lonzo cant. But Melo literally is the none defensive version of Lonzo.

There is no doubt that both can average 7-8 assists per night and make it look pretty. But pretty doesnt win you basketball games.

I keep using the Elfrid Payton example because he always goes under the radar because he has now bounced around the league. But he is a solid pg with great vision. But if you struggle to create offense when options arent there, you are not going to affect winning.

I feel Lonzo is a decent NBA player but not what people thought he could be. I think that will also be the case for Melo.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1902 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:20 pm

WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1903 » by cjbulls » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:26 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.


So what should Utah have done? They are capped out either way. Try to trade him and rebuild? Sign Whiteside/Dwight for minimum and use the mid-level on a fringe starter?

Gobert was getting a similar contract one way or another next year, so their options were pretty limited.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1904 » by cjbulls » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:05 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.


I think this statement is interesting. I could turn it around and say "who would you rather have, Trae Young at $175 million or Jeff Teague at $2 million. Or Reggie Jackson at $2M."

It asks a lot of questions on what defense amounts to. But more importantly, what does it mean to pay for elite.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1905 » by erasmusmrr » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:23 pm

Yes, I think the Jazz would prefer to have LeBron on that same deal. That wasn't an option. Howard played 19 MPG last year and is 35. Play that out. Gobert walks for nothing, they sign Howard for 1 year, 2M. Then what? Still no cap space. Signing Gobert doesn't stop them from doing anything. They can even trade Conley for another max guy if they don't care about the luxury tax.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1906 » by ZOMG » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:43 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.


Yes, in a vacuum it seems insane to give 200 million to a guy who provides no offense whatsoever. However, as we've seen lately, even the supposed albatross contracts can be moved in this league. Everything and everyone can be moved if it comes to that. The real question is fit, effect on winning etc.

I suspect that in its very core, this argument comes back to the "These basketball players are making way too much money!" thing we've been hearing over and over for the last 30 years. Fans take it personally when someone they don't like gets paid, even though it's not their money.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1907 » by JohnnyTapwater » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:44 pm

I want to pry THT from the Lakers with a contract they won't be willing to match. I think he's a duel forward that would be a really sneaky way to improve our roster in light of the dwindling pool of max worthy players.

I would put him at SF and move PWill to PF.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1908 » by ZOMG » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:52 pm

JohnnyTapwater wrote:I want to pry THT from the Lakers with a contract they won't be willing to match. I think he's a duel forward that would be a really sneaky way to improve our roster in light of the dwindling pool of max worthy players.

I would put him at SF and move PWill to PF.


Patrick Williams at PF would improve this team? :lol:
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1909 » by PlayerUp » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:58 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.


Never overpay your bigman unless they are clear superstars. Never use your top lottery picks on bigman unless they're clear for sure things.

Bigman are the easiest to get in free agency and are the least impactful on the court.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1910 » by Pax for Prez » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:02 pm

Updated List of Players to keep an eye on for next off season, with their ages next year:

2021 Free Agents
wing K. Oubre - 26
wing V. Oladipo - 29
wing E. Fourner - 29
PG D. Schruder - 28
C H. Giles - 24 (does he take a step forward with his age)

PO - Free Agents
PG S. Dinwiddie - 28

Older Free Agents
wing D. DeRozan -32
PG K. Lowry - 35
PG D. Rose - 33
PG L. Williams - 35
PG M. Conley - 34
C L. Aldridge - 36
C A. Drummond - 28 (not sure about fit)

REST. Free Agents
PG L. Ball - 24
PG D. Graham - 26
PG K. Nunn - 26
PG D. White - 27
SF OG Anunoby - 24
PF J. Collins - 24
PF K. Kuzma - 26
C J. Allen - 23
PF J. Isaac - 24 (coming off injury)
SG G. Trent - 23
C Z. Collins - 24
SF S. Mykhailiuk - 24
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1911 » by ZOMG » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:13 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.


Never overpay your bigman unless they are clear superstars. Never use your top lottery picks on bigman unless they're clear for sure things.

Bigman are the easiest to get in free agency and are the least impactful on the court.


No. Point guards are the easiest to find. The world is literally full of them. The world is not full of skilled 7 footers.

ELITE point guards are hard to find.

That's why there's absolutely nothing specal about Coby White. He's just a 6'4'' dude who's an average shooter and a bad playmaker. A dime a dozen. It would be insane to build a team around a guy like this.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1912 » by Hugi Mancura » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:23 pm

From Bulls point of view I don't think it's not so important to have that cap space in 2021 anymore (well I really doubt star's would have signed with Bulls anyway, but now there are no more stars to sign). If they get a change they should try to find star players through trades. Porter is a great contract to get those players, so Bulls pretty much have to do that trade this year.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1913 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:24 pm

cjbulls wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.


So what should Utah have done? They are capped out either way. Try to trade him and rebuild? Sign Whiteside/Dwight for minimum and use the mid-level on a fringe starter?

Gobert was getting a similar contract one way or another next year, so their options were pretty limited.


There were options though. This is no different than Boston who people knew they werent going to pay 200 million for a tiny player. Even though Isaiah Thomas was elite at the time, its was a major risk. And they ended up being right. They at least got Kyrie even if on a 1 year deal.

Utah could have made trades and may have looked better off a year or 2 from now. Yes maybe there wasnt a perfect scenario for them but when you pay a supermax, you are basically locked into your roster. I see Utah as a 6th seed as their ceiling.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1914 » by Jeffster81 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:40 pm

Yikes on the Rudy contract.

This is why I hate NBA Contracts. There is almost no middle ground for good players. You either have to max/supermax them out or lose them to the inevitable trade request.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1915 » by JohnnyTapwater » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:56 pm

ZOMG wrote:
JohnnyTapwater wrote:I want to pry THT from the Lakers with a contract they won't be willing to match. I think he's a duel forward that would be a really sneaky way to improve our roster in light of the dwindling pool of max worthy players.

I would put him at SF and move PWill to PF.


Patrick Williams at PF would improve this team? :lol:


Are you serious?

What about the moves as a result of moving Patrick to PF since you want to cherry pick? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1916 » by cjbulls » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:14 pm

Pax for Prez wrote:Updated List of Players to keep an eye on for next off season, with their ages next year:

2021 Free Agents
wing K. Oubre - 26
wing V. Oladipo - 29
wing E. Fourner - 29
PG D. Schruder - 28
C H. Giles - 24 (does he take a step forward with his age)

PO - Free Agents
PG S. Dinwiddie - 28

Older Free Agents
wing D. DeRozan -32
PG K. Lowry - 35
PG D. Rose - 33
PG L. Williams - 35
PG M. Conley - 34
C L. Aldridge - 36
C A. Drummond - 28 (not sure about fit)

REST. Free Agents
PG L. Ball - 24
PG D. Graham - 26
PG K. Nunn - 26
PG D. White - 27
SF OG Anunoby - 24
PF J. Collins - 24
PF K. Kuzma - 26
C J. Allen - 23
PF J. Isaac - 24 (coming off injury)
SG G. Trent - 23
C Z. Collins - 24
SF S. Mykhailiuk - 24


Give me Rudy starting at $35M next year over anyone on this list. Maybe John Collins (assuming rookie max) could get there if lucky.

Id also take Gobert over any two of these guys as well for those expected to sign for 20M and under.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1917 » by R3AL1TY » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:31 pm

Gobert almost getting Giannis money :-?

He's a good interior big, but I wouldn't pay him that much. But it probably won't affect them much since the only other player that will make big money on their team is Murray. It will just be harder for them to sign a good FA role player or star from the outside, but there aren't much available right now anyway.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1918 » by DuckIII » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:59 pm

ZOMG wrote:
JohnnyTapwater wrote:I want to pry THT from the Lakers with a contract they won't be willing to match. I think he's a duel forward that would be a really sneaky way to improve our roster in light of the dwindling pool of max worthy players.

I would put him at SF and move PWill to PF.


Patrick Williams at PF would improve this team? :lol:


It’s certainly a realistic possibility.
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1919 » by Pax for Prez » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:10 pm

R3AL1TY wrote:Gobert almost getting Giannis money :-?

He's a good interior big, but I wouldn't pay him that much. But it probably won't affect them much since the only other player that will make big money on their team is Murray. It will just be harder for them to sign a good FA role player or star from the outside, but there aren't much available right now anyway.


Murray ??
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Re: Around The NBA 

Post#1920 » by TheStig » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:10 pm

cjbulls wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.


So what should Utah have done? They are capped out either way. Try to trade him and rebuild? Sign Whiteside/Dwight for minimum and use the mid-level on a fringe starter?

Gobert was getting a similar contract one way or another next year, so their options were pretty limited.

Sometimes you just have to cut bait. I would have tried to move him during the off/season. They already have Favors who can start in a vacuum for them.

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