Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

[Susan]

No turnovers today. Amazing how much easier to win games when you do that. And the QB is the biggest factor in that happening or not.

Nick had the ball hit the turf on a strip sack and was about two inches away from another that was 100% recovered by Seattle.

Next week should be fun.

Potential QB Match-ups:
Foles vs Glennon
Fields vs Jake Fromm

[Dresden]

No turnovers today. Amazing how much easier to win games when you do that. And the QB is the biggest factor in that happening or not.

Nick had the ball hit the turf on a strip sack and was about two inches away from another that was 100% recovered by Seattle.

Next week should be fun.

Potential QB Match-ups:
Foles vs Glennon
Fields vs Jake Fromm

And Fields would have at least half a dozen more fumbles too if he or his teamates had not fallen on some of the balls he's coughed up. The bottom line is that Foles did not turnover the ball today.

[molepharmer]

7/14 on 3rd down today, and they dominated TOP, even with a sub par game from Montgomery.

Montgomery really didn't have a bad game.....that is, when the O-line wasn't getting stuffed. Seattle had 4 TFL that were not sacks and I gotta believe most of those TFLs were when Monty was getting hit about the same time he got the handoff. His pass receiving was big on keeping drives going. He probably got the best out of his opportunities. He did drop a telegraphed pass inside the red zone. But there were three defenders within about three yards of him and he would have never gotten the yardage needed. It was one of Nagy's patented pass patterns well short of the sticks/end zone.

[Susan]

There's a few spots where Foles could land - I wouldn't even mind him playing this week against the Giants because they should roll through them and another Foles W would only boost his trade value.

-Denver could win with him, good defense, WR weapons and a good young running back
- Jacksonville is talking about hiring Doug Peterson, he'd be a good mentor for Trevor
- WFT is in QB hell
-Cleveland is in a weird spot

If they can rid themselves of that $10.6M and put it into weapons it would be massive.

[dougthonus]

There's a few spots where Foles could land - I wouldn't even mind him playing this week against the Giants because they should roll through them and another Foles W would only boost his trade value.

-Denver could win with him, good defense, WR weapons and a good young running back
- Jacksonville is talking about hiring Doug Peterson, he'd be a good mentor for Trevor
- WFT is in QB hell
-Cleveland is in a weird spot

If they can rid themselves of that $10.6M and put it into weapons it would be massive.

I'm no expert on NFL salary mechanics, so some general questions:

If we trade him, do we lose 100% of the cap hit? Wasn't sure if the pro-rated signing bonus stayed with us or if the roster bonus (if we trade after we pay it) stays with us.

If we lose all the cap hit, but the other team is only expending 4M in cash, then a trade to a team that needs a decent QB option and has cap room but wants to save actually cash would sure be plausible.

[Susan]

There's a few spots where Foles could land - I wouldn't even mind him playing this week against the Giants because they should roll through them and another Foles W would only boost his trade value.

-Denver could win with him, good defense, WR weapons and a good young running back
- Jacksonville is talking about hiring Doug Peterson, he'd be a good mentor for Trevor
- WFT is in QB hell
-Cleveland is in a weird spot

If they can rid themselves of that $10.6M and put it into weapons it would be massive.

I'm no expert on NFL salary mechanics, so some general questions:

If we trade him, do we lose 100% of the cap hit? Wasn't sure if the pro-rated signing bonus stayed with us or if the roster bonus (if we trade after we pay it) stays with us.

If we lose all the cap hit, but the other team is only expending 4M in cash, then a trade to a team that needs a decent QB option and has cap room but wants to save actually cash would sure be plausible.

Even at 10.6M it's not that bad - Andy Dalton got $12m for a single year and if you get two wins on tape with Foles and considering his history - that's something you can pull off.

My understanding of the cap is really just what the spotrac roster management page does - we trade him and we're off the hook for the whole thing, if we cut him, we're basically adding $3m in cap space but taking on $7m+ in dead cap.

Turning Foles money into a Michael Gallop or Christian Kirk would go a long way to turning the offense around.

[patryk7754]

Our primary goal should be fixing the oline. Borom and Jenkins look good. Jenkins just needs more time to get used to the speed of the game. Daniels is trash and Mustipahr was a flash in the pan. We're stuck with Whitehair. There are plenty of options at G and C and we can afford any of them

At center there are
Kelce: Probably the best available and one of the best overall. Eagles will probably try hard to keep him
Justin Britt: Underrated and will probably be one of the best value signings this off-season. He'll be cheap. Probably around 3-6m
Bozeman: Great center. probably get the most from any center this FA. Ravens probably will keep him
The Rams Center: Same as Bozeman but I don't think the Rams can afford to keep him. Likely to get at least 10m

At Gaurd, there are
Quennsennberry: Maybe the best FA oline overall (other than Armstead) and a top G overall. He'll probably get between 8-12 and I'm willing to pay him that. Titans may not be able to afford to keep him
Scherff: Same as Qennsennberry but a higher chance of staying with his team.
DeCastro and Osemele: Old and didn't play this season I think. Both will get minimums but I think they still play at high levels, maybe even probowl

[patryk7754]

At WR, I think our top target should be Juju. He broke his arm earlier this season and will probably get paid less than he did last year, which was 7/8m(?). I think He'll get between 3-5m and thats great value for someone with his talent. That gives us the flexibility to sign another number 2 WR and we can roll out with three number 2 WRs and in the right system that could be just as effective as having a number one and a bunch of average WRs.

[dougthonus]

Even at 10.6M it's not that bad - Andy Dalton got $12m for a single year and if you get two wins on tape with Foles and considering his history - that's something you can pull off.

My understanding of the cap is really just what the spotrac roster management page does - we trade him and we're off the hook for the whole thing, if we cut him, we're basically adding $3m in cap space but taking on $7m+ in dead cap.

Turning Foles money into a Michael Gallop or Christian Kirk would go a long way to turning the offense around.

Looked it up at a couple places, and here's a quote that I thought sums it up well:

For the team trading the player, a trade is pretty much treated the same as the release of a player – the team is relieved of paying all future base salaries, but still must account for the bonus money that has already been paid to the player. Just like with the release of a player, the remaining unaccounted-for bonus pro-rations will accelerate and count against the team’s Salary Cap.

For the team acquiring the player, a trade means that the new team acquires the player’s remaining contract, but does not have any liability for any bonus money previously paid to the player.

As best I can tell, we're on the hook for Foles the dead cap money of 7.6M according to spotrac, though I'm not sure why this isn't 6.6M (the roster bonus + pro-rated sign on).

So it doesn't seem like trading Foles will save us any money vs releasing him, and if we're only saving 3M, we're probably better off keeping him as our own backup QB vs finding a different backup QB for 3M though the difference there is probably minimal.

[Dresden]

Our primary goal should be fixing the oline. Borom and Jenkins look good. Jenkins just needs more time to get used to the speed of the game. Daniels is trash and Mustipahr was a flash in the pan. We're stuck with Whitehair. There are plenty of options at G and C and we can afford any of them

At center there are
Kelce: Probably the best available and one of the best overall. Eagles will probably try hard to keep him
Justin Britt: Underrated and will probably be one of the best value signings this off-season. He'll be cheap. Probably around 3-6m
Bozeman: Great center. probably get the most from any center this FA. Ravens probably will keep him
The Rams Center: Same as Bozeman but I don't think the Rams can afford to keep him. Likely to get at least 10m

At Gaurd, there are
Quennsennberry: Maybe the best FA oline overall (other than Armstead) and a top G overall. He'll probably get between 8-12 and I'm willing to pay him that. Titans may not be able to afford to keep him
Scherff: Same as Qennsennberry but a higher chance of staying with his team.
DeCastro and Osemele: Old and didn't play this season I think. Both will get minimums but I think they still play at high levels, maybe even probowl

I agree. What a difference having a strong O line would make for the offense. Championship teams usually are able to dominate the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. I think that's been a recipe for the Cowboy's success for a long time- they always seem to have a bunch of pro bowlers on that O line.

My order of priority for the offense would be: 1) fix the line, 2) fix the line, 3) pick up another WR or two. But I really think with a good line, and the development of Fields, some of the receivers we have now will look much better. I think Mooney, Grant, Kment and Byrd all have upside.

[Susan]

Even at 10.6M it's not that bad - Andy Dalton got $12m for a single year and if you get two wins on tape with Foles and considering his history - that's something you can pull off.

My understanding of the cap is really just what the spotrac roster management page does - we trade him and we're off the hook for the whole thing, if we cut him, we're basically adding $3m in cap space but taking on $7m+ in dead cap.

Turning Foles money into a Michael Gallop or Christian Kirk would go a long way to turning the offense around.

Looked it up at a couple places, and here's a quote that I thought sums it up well:

For the team trading the player, a trade is pretty much treated the same as the release of a player – the team is relieved of paying all future base salaries, but still must account for the bonus money that has already been paid to the player. Just like with the release of a player, the remaining unaccounted-for bonus pro-rations will accelerate and count against the team’s Salary Cap.

For the team acquiring the player, a trade means that the new team acquires the player’s remaining contract, but does not have any liability for any bonus money previously paid to the player.

As best I can tell, we're on the hook for Foles the dead cap money of 7.6M according to spotrac, though I'm not sure why this isn't 6.6M (the roster bonus + pro-rated sign on).

So it doesn't seem like trading Foles will save us any money vs releasing him, and if we're only saving 3M, we're probably better off keeping him as our own backup QB vs finding a different backup QB for 3M though the difference there is probably minimal.

There's a $4m roster bonus that I'm not sure about who that falls on.

If it's $3m or $7m, he's potentially got halfway decent trade value if he has two wins on tape this season. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Denver, New Orleans and Washington are all teams who could bite on him considering the price, his potential and his experience.

[Dresden]

On defense, I would focus all the resources on the secondary. With Mack, Quinn, Roquan and Hicks, we are pretty strong in the front 7. But very weak in the secondary outside of Jaylen Johnson.

[CaPiTanAK]

The Chicago Bears need to spend draft capital and FA money over the next two seasons to make both the D- and O-lines into top 5 units, especially if you're convinced that JF is the guy.

Everything will fall into place if you have the lines in place, allowing for skill players to flourish. The O-line is also very important in term of converting touch yards near the goal in order to score TDs.

[Susan]

On defense, I would focus all the resources on the secondary. With Mack, Quinn, Roquan and Hicks, we are pretty strong in the front 7. But very weak in the secondary outside of Jaylen Johnson.

Hicks is gone - Thomas Graham Jr has been really intriguing, they just need a difference maker at SS. They've missed Adrian Amos badly.

[dougthonus]

There's a $4m roster bonus that I'm not sure about who that falls on.

From the quote, the roster bonus falls on us unless we trade him prior to it being due (5 days after start of 2022 season). Unlikely anyone takes him in the first five days.

If it's $3m or $7m, he's potentially got halfway decent trade value if he has two wins on tape this season. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Denver, New Orleans and Washington are all teams who could bite on him considering the price, his potential and his experience.

I think his base salary (4M) is what the hit is for another team. Trading him seems to only open up 3M for us. Given we'd need to sign a different backup QB, keeping Foles for 3M (from a cap perspective) probably makes as much sense as trading him. Not sure we get a better back up for 3M (or even a similar backup).

[HearshotKDS]

There's a $4m roster bonus that I'm not sure about who that falls on.

From the quote, the roster bonus falls on us unless we trade him prior to it being due (5 days after start of 2022 season). Unlikely anyone takes him in the first five days.

If it's $3m or $7m, he's potentially got halfway decent trade value if he has two wins on tape this season. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Denver, New Orleans and Washington are all teams who could bite on him considering the price, his potential and his experience.

I think his base salary (4M) is what the hit is for another team. Trading him seems to only open up 3M for us. Given we'd need to sign a different backup QB, keeping Foles for 3M (from a cap perspective) probably makes as much sense as trading him. Not sure we get a better back up for 3M (or even a similar backup).

If Bears trade Foles the only cap hit that remains on their books is money that has already been paid - IE the $2.67M signing bonus.

The other $5M is garaunteed but hasnt been paid yet, and will hit the books of whoever pays that. Its counted as dead money because Bears would have to pay it if they cut the player, but if they trade Foles the team who acquires him takes the responsibility of paying the garaunteed salary.

If Bears trade Foles before March 21st, 2022 (when the roster bonus gets paid), they free up $8M of cap space for the 2022 season.

Edit: A team trading for him would pay him $8M for 2022, unless they wait until after March 21st when they would pay him $4M. Those would also be his exact cap hits for the team trading for him.

[patryk7754]

Our primary goal should be fixing the oline. Borom and Jenkins look good. Jenkins just needs more time to get used to the speed of the game. Daniels is trash and Mustipahr was a flash in the pan. We're stuck with Whitehair. There are plenty of options at G and C and we can afford any of them

At center there are
Kelce: Probably the best available and one of the best overall. Eagles will probably try hard to keep him
Justin Britt: Underrated and will probably be one of the best value signings this off-season. He'll be cheap. Probably around 3-6m
Bozeman: Great center. probably get the most from any center this FA. Ravens probably will keep him
The Rams Center: Same as Bozeman but I don't think the Rams can afford to keep him. Likely to get at least 10m

At Gaurd, there are
Quennsennberry: Maybe the best FA oline overall (other than Armstead) and a top G overall. He'll probably get between 8-12 and I'm willing to pay him that. Titans may not be able to afford to keep him
Scherff: Same as Qennsennberry but a higher chance of staying with his team.
DeCastro and Osemele: Old and didn't play this season I think. Both will get minimums but I think they still play at high levels, maybe even probowl

I agree. What a difference having a strong O line would make for the offense. Championship teams usually are able to dominate the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. I think that's been a recipe for the Cowboy's success for a long time- they always seem to have a bunch of pro bowlers on that O line.

My order of priority for the offense would be: 1) fix the line, 2) fix the line, 3) pick up another WR or two. But I really think with a good line, and the development of Fields, some of the receivers we have now will look much better. I think Mooney, Grant, Kment and Byrd all have upside.

I think the Eagles are the best example to look at. They have a QB who has less passing talent than Fields and the receivers options aren't too special but once their online became healthy they started to dominate in the run game and protected Hurts which made it a lot easier for him to pass and now i wouldn't be shocked if they beat someone in the wild card round

[dougthonus]

If Bears trade Foles the only cap hit that remains on their books is money that has already been paid - IE the $2.67M signing bonus.

The other $5M is garaunteed but hasnt been paid yet, and will hit the books of whoever pays that. Its counted as dead money because Bears would have to pay it if they cut the player, but if they trade Foles the team who acquires him takes the responsibility of paying the garaunteed salary.

If Bears trade Foles before March 21st, 2022 (when the roster bonus gets paid), they free up $8M of cap space for the 2022 season.

Edit: A team trading for him would pay him $8M for 2022, unless they wait until after March 21st when they would pay him $4M. Those would also be his exact cap hits for the team trading for him.

Yeah, it seems really unlikely that we can trade him before March 21st to free up 8M when a team knows they can wait until afterwards and pay him half as much money. The only way that happens is if they feel we would refuse to trade him after March 21st and if they really think he's that much better than other 8M options or if they feel some other team would swoop in and take him at 8M instead.

My guess is we won't be able to trade him prior to March 21st and will instead be on the hook for the 6.6-7.6(depending what that extra million in dead money spotrac says is there but I don't know hwo they account for it).

[HearshotKDS]

If Bears trade Foles the only cap hit that remains on their books is money that has already been paid - IE the $2.67M signing bonus.

The other $5M is garaunteed but hasnt been paid yet, and will hit the books of whoever pays that. Its counted as dead money because Bears would have to pay it if they cut the player, but if they trade Foles the team who acquires him takes the responsibility of paying the garaunteed salary.

If Bears trade Foles before March 21st, 2022 (when the roster bonus gets paid), they free up $8M of cap space for the 2022 season.

Edit: A team trading for him would pay him $8M for 2022, unless they wait until after March 21st when they would pay him $4M. Those would also be his exact cap hits for the team trading for him.

Yeah, it seems really unlikely that we can trade him before March 21st to free up 8M when a team knows they can wait until afterwards and pay him half as much money. The only way that happens is if they feel we would refuse to trade him after March 21st and if they really think he's that much better than other 8M options or if they feel some other team would swoop in and take him at 8M instead.

My guess is we won't be able to trade him prior to March 21st and will instead be on the hook for the 6.6-7.6(depending what that extra million in dead money spotrac says is there but I don't know hwo they account for it).

The "extra" million of dead money is just $1m of his base salary is garaunteed, but it gets paid on a game by game basis and the basic rule of NFL cap is the dollar must always hit the cap of the team that paid it. If they trade him after March 31 but before preseason games (when the base salary starts getting paid out) start they would be on the hook for $6.6m and save $3.4m. From a macro perspective that doesnt make a lot of sense because hes a high caliber backup and those all make more than $3.4m. That does cut both ways in that plenty of teams would love to have Foles as a backup for $3.4M cap hit, but im not sure any teams would be willing to send draft capital in a trade to make it worth our teams while. But then again JAX fans said the same thing and then Pace/Nagy happened so never say never.

[Ice Man]

I like the Noles era better.