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pipfan wrote:Wondering what value Ayo would have? Jones seems like a keeper, and we still have Coby, Huerter, Ball, Giddy in the backcourt
Dan Z wrote:pipfan wrote:Wondering what value Ayo would have? Jones seems like a keeper, and we still have Coby, Huerter, Ball, Giddy in the backcourt
Ayo has had a bad season and is currently out for the season. I bet his value isn't that high.
Do you have any trade ideas?
Infinity2152 wrote:Celtics are over the second apron, they can't aggregate contracts anyway, to my knowledge. They are going to have to be very methodical clearing cap. Any deal would be way more complicated than the simple one proposed. Again, I was more interested in what guys think of Jaylen Brown as a number 1. Tatum is 5th in the league in usage and Brown is 14th. I actually really like Jaylen Brown, that's why I proposed it. I think he's worth it as a number 1 and he could take another step and improve his numbers with more usage, similar to James Harden. We'd still have Ball, Matas, Giddey, Smith, Collins. If Giddey and Matas can be number 2's or 3's, that's a damn solid young team. I could care less about making the Celtics better, lmao!
WindyCityBorn wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:Celtics are over the second apron, they can't aggregate contracts anyway, to my knowledge. They are going to have to be very methodical clearing cap. Any deal would be way more complicated than the simple one proposed. Again, I was more interested in what guys think of Jaylen Brown as a number 1. Tatum is 5th in the league in usage and Brown is 14th. I actually really like Jaylen Brown, that's why I proposed it. I think he's worth it as a number 1 and he could take another step and improve his numbers with more usage, similar to James Harden. We'd still have Ball, Matas, Giddey, Smith, Collins. If Giddey and Matas can be number 2's or 3's, that's a damn solid young team. I could care less about making the Celtics better, lmao!
Brown is not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. He is worse offensive player than Zach.
pipfan wrote:Dan Z wrote:pipfan wrote:Wondering what value Ayo would have? Jones seems like a keeper, and we still have Coby, Huerter, Ball, Giddy in the backcourt
Ayo has had a bad season and is currently out for the season. I bet his value isn't that high.
Do you have any trade ideas?
Wondering if BRK would absorb him and give us one of their late 1sts? They have 4 1sts and a high second, and could use NBA players.
He could start with Cam Thomas, and defend the better guard
Infinity2152 wrote:WindyCityBorn wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:Celtics are over the second apron, they can't aggregate contracts anyway, to my knowledge. They are going to have to be very methodical clearing cap. Any deal would be way more complicated than the simple one proposed. Again, I was more interested in what guys think of Jaylen Brown as a number 1. Tatum is 5th in the league in usage and Brown is 14th. I actually really like Jaylen Brown, that's why I proposed it. I think he's worth it as a number 1 and he could take another step and improve his numbers with more usage, similar to James Harden. We'd still have Ball, Matas, Giddey, Smith, Collins. If Giddey and Matas can be number 2's or 3's, that's a damn solid young team. I could care less about making the Celtics better, lmao!
Brown is not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. He is worse offensive player than Zach.
Zach is good enough offensively to be a number 1, so that's not saying anything. There are few players in the league who can score efficiently away from the basket like Zach. Few players who can shoot 3's and dunk/finish like Zach. Purely opinion Jaylen can't be a number 1, he's putting up 23, 6 and 4 as a second option and is a good defender. What does a number 1 need to average? Number 1's don't always run the offense, Shaq, Tim Duncan were #1's. Kobe and Mike didn't run their offenses much of the time. He's never been a number 1, so he'd play differently. Don't know how anybody could determine how he would play in that role, especially without considering the team around him. Is Tatum a number 1? He's not much different than Brown in what he does on the court. Didn't Brown win Finals MVP?
Maybe we should define number 1. There are 30 teams in the league. Is Jaylen Brown top 30 or no?
WindyCityBorn wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:WindyCityBorn wrote:
Brown is not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. He is worse offensive player than Zach.
Zach is good enough offensively to be a number 1, so that's not saying anything. There are few players in the league who can score efficiently away from the basket like Zach. Few players who can shoot 3's and dunk/finish like Zach. Purely opinion Jaylen can't be a number 1, he's putting up 23, 6 and 4 as a second option and is a good defender. What does a number 1 need to average? Number 1's don't always run the offense, Shaq, Tim Duncan were #1's. Kobe and Mike didn't run their offenses much of the time. He's never been a number 1, so he'd play differently. Don't know how anybody could determine how he would play in that role, especially without considering the team around him. Is Tatum a number 1? He's not much different than Brown in what he does on the court. Didn't Brown win Finals MVP?
Maybe we should define number 1. There are 30 teams in the league. Is Jaylen Brown top 30 or no?
I thought when talk #1 we mean a #1 option on a serious championship contender. Not just the #1 option in any team 1 through 30. So basically around a top 10 player. Which is where Tatum is. I always thought Zach would great #2 for contender, but we never came close to getting a #1 except for DeRozan’s first 2 seasons here.
leo921 wrote:White/Williams for Issac/KCP
Get off Williams long term money and get something for White.
Issac/Matas would be a great active 3/4 combo. Would rather have an active Issac signed long term for 15m per (with injury outs on his contract) then a no motor Williams for 18m per. KCP would be a solid vet who can help the young players.
For the Magic White is the SG they need, someone who can shoot and make plays for others. Suggs/White is a good
backcourt, and White can play off Paulo/Franz and make things easier for them. Williams would be the cost of getting
White, but he does fit in off the bench as 3/4 who can hit 3s and play solid D.
Jcool0 wrote:If the Bulls got Jaylen Brown, it wold be similar to what happened with Vuc. You would see the name and think GREAT Bulls are back and 5 games in would be hmm we are 1-4 what is happening?!
Infinity2152 wrote:
Last question: Did anybody think Donovan Mitchell was a number 1 on a contender before he went to Cleveland? Please be honest.
kodo wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:
Last question: Did anybody think Donovan Mitchell was a number 1 on a contender before he went to Cleveland? Please be honest.
Donovan Mitchell at age 24 carried (I mean carried, not just a contributor) his team to a 59 win season (weighted to 82 games) with Bogdanovic & Jordan Clarkson as his best offensive teammates. For a kid the same age as Coby, yeah I think top tier stardom was definitely on track.
Brown is a contributor to a championship team, which is great. But selling the farm for him would be like trading for Klay Thompson or Andrew Wiggins based on them winning a title in 2022. There was so much hype around those 2 guys which has all disappeared at this point. Brown will be 29 next season, players just don't develop into different players at 30+.
Closer to trading for Mitchell would be trading for Tyrese Maxey or Zion.
Infinity2152 wrote:kodo wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:
Last question: Did anybody think Donovan Mitchell was a number 1 on a contender before he went to Cleveland? Please be honest.
Donovan Mitchell at age 24 carried (I mean carried, not just a contributor) his team to a 59 win season (weighted to 82 games) with Bogdanovic & Jordan Clarkson as his best offensive teammates. For a kid the same age as Coby, yeah I think top tier stardom was definitely on track.
Brown is a contributor to a championship team, which is great. But selling the farm for him would be like trading for Klay Thompson or Andrew Wiggins based on them winning a title in 2022. There was so much hype around those 2 guys which has all disappeared at this point. Brown will be 29 next season, players just don't develop into different players at 30+.
Closer to trading for Mitchell would be trading for Tyrese Maxey or Zion.
Donovan Mitchell averaged 26, 5 and 4 the season before he was traded. He had been in the league 5 years, his team never a contender. Not an outstanding defender, rebounder or playmaker. He's a great scorer, don't know if that's enough to say number 1 on a contender automatically. He had Mike Conley and Rudy Gay on that team, think he gets to take much more of a vet and leadership role on Cleveland. He also never played with a player at Tatum's level, his usage and stats would probably be significantly lower.
Saying Brown can't get better assumes what we've seen of Brown as a number 2 is the best he would have done as a number 1. Brown just won Finals MVP last season. Mitchell, Maxey and Zion are first options much of the time too, always for Zion. And I'm qualifying Brown being great with him being on court with a great playmaker while being the number 1 option, not by himself. Same way Malone doesn't look as good without Stockton.
Here's the thing. So what if Brown can't instantly make us a title contender with no other changes to the roster? Who can? Adding Klay Thompson or Andrew Wiggins at 29 would certainly make this team much better. They'd bring a ton of winning habits, playoff experience, solid play to a young team. Then keep making moves to get better. We could maybe get Zion this summer, I'm good off that. If somebody can come up with a reasonable trade to get Maxey or some player you think better than Brown, I'm all ears.
sco wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:kodo wrote:
Donovan Mitchell at age 24 carried (I mean carried, not just a contributor) his team to a 59 win season (weighted to 82 games) with Bogdanovic & Jordan Clarkson as his best offensive teammates. For a kid the same age as Coby, yeah I think top tier stardom was definitely on track.
Brown is a contributor to a championship team, which is great. But selling the farm for him would be like trading for Klay Thompson or Andrew Wiggins based on them winning a title in 2022. There was so much hype around those 2 guys which has all disappeared at this point. Brown will be 29 next season, players just don't develop into different players at 30+.
Closer to trading for Mitchell would be trading for Tyrese Maxey or Zion.
Donovan Mitchell averaged 26, 5 and 4 the season before he was traded. He had been in the league 5 years, his team never a contender. Not an outstanding defender, rebounder or playmaker. He's a great scorer, don't know if that's enough to say number 1 on a contender automatically. He had Mike Conley and Rudy Gay on that team, think he gets to take much more of a vet and leadership role on Cleveland. He also never played with a player at Tatum's level, his usage and stats would probably be significantly lower.
Saying Brown can't get better assumes what we've seen of Brown as a number 2 is the best he would have done as a number 1. Brown just won Finals MVP last season. Mitchell, Maxey and Zion are first options much of the time too, always for Zion. And I'm qualifying Brown being great with him being on court with a great playmaker while being the number 1 option, not by himself. Same way Malone doesn't look as good without Stockton.
Here's the thing. So what if Brown can't instantly make us a title contender with no other changes to the roster? Who can? Adding Klay Thompson or Andrew Wiggins at 29 would certainly make this team much better. They'd bring a ton of winning habits, playoff experience, solid play to a young team. Then keep making moves to get better. We could maybe get Zion this summer, I'm good off that. If somebody can come up with a reasonable trade to get Maxey or some player you think better than Brown, I'm all ears.
I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of our situation. Are there any top say 15 guys who are under 30 that are "gettable"? And, following on with that, are they "gettable" while leaving enough of our key guys to field a contender?
I think the answer is, probably not, but teams do some wacky sh*t in the offseason for unforseeable reasons. If AK has a strategy (debatable) it's to have a team that is good enough that adding a star via an "all-in" sort of trade takes us to that level. Problem is that I think we are a year away at best for that kind of trade to make sense.
Jcool0 wrote:If the Bulls got Jaylen Brown, it wold be similar to what happened with Vuc. You would see the name and think GREAT Bulls are back and 5 games in would be hmm we are 1-4 what is happening?!
Dez wrote:Jcool0 wrote:If the Bulls got Jaylen Brown, it wold be similar to what happened with Vuc. You would see the name and think GREAT Bulls are back and 5 games in would be hmm we are 1-4 what is happening?!
How is that even remotely close?
Brown is a young player at the beginning of his prime with a Finals MVP compared to Vucevic who led the Magic nowhere and was in his 30s.
Moot point anyway because we don't have the assets for Brown.
