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[erasmusmrr]

Lauri for a 1st. Reset with a new rookie.

[TheStig]

i don't agree that gobert is particularly sacrificing an offensive role for mitchell. he's an elite garbage man with ability in the open floor and some post ability. and you can make an argument that gobert isn't worth the max. but this idea that mitchell is some elite offensive player simply isn't true. average team ranks since mitchell has been there:

offense 14th
defense 6th

mitchell so far is a modest efficiency volume scorer. the kind of player who limits the potential of your offense if you're paying him big bucks to be its #1

Or his offense is limited because there is a big camping out in the lane because his center can only do lobs/layups and put backs.

or that helps mitchell's offense because the opposing big can't leave his man to help w/o getting burned badly

No, I'm pretty sure he'd prefer clean driving lanes and the court spread to give him space.

[TheStig]

It's not silly at all. You take Gobert off that team and they have no defensive anchor, lose his rebounding and overall impact.
That team will look a hell of a lot worse just like if you take Mitchell's scoring off the team.

Fans are way too obsessed with the narrative of not paying defensive players. It needs to stop. Gobert is a great defensive player and he sacrifices on offense to let Mitchell eat. He is dynamic in his role and was paid accordingly for it.

What is Gobert sacrificing offensively for Mitchell? Gobert has no range and shows flashes of an occasional jump hook but it's nothing you can make a major part of your offense.

Sacrificing might have been the wrong term for it. But if you remember, it came out later on that the real issue between Rudy and Donovan was more related to Rudy wanting more touches on offense and had been trying to be more vocal about it than COVID-19 since they were not sure who contracted it first and who gave it to whom.

Rudy only takes just over 8 shots a game. Mitchell isn't the most efficient star player in the league so if you give Gobert a few more touches he can give you 17-19 a game instead of 15.9

That's every big really. But most aren't shaq or Hakeem and can't do anything with the ball unless they're put into really good situations. Looking at Rudy's great efficency and Mitchell's fairly good efficency doesn't mean that the ball should go to Gobert more.

Again, I'm not saying Rudy is bad. He's really good at defense and he's a good finisher. But the other great defensive bigs are AD and Giannis. And those guys can switch onto smaller players, guard multiple positions and give you really good offense. Those are the 40+ million a year bigs. Not Rudy. Rudy is a fine player but I don't think he's as valuable on defense because he doesn't have that versatility and his offensive game is nowhere near as good. This is a big overpay. And it really puts a ceiling on the Jazz.

[TheStig]

It's not silly at all. You take Gobert off that team and they have no defensive anchor, lose his rebounding and overall impact.
That team will look a hell of a lot worse just like if you take Mitchell's scoring off the team.

Fans are way too obsessed with the narrative of not paying defensive players. It needs to stop. Gobert is a great defensive player and he sacrifices on offense to let Mitchell eat. He is dynamic in his role and was paid accordingly for it.

He is a very good defensive player. But the league is going away from defensive specialist centers. You don't pay one 40+ mill a year.

But Mitchell means far more to them and they'd still be in playoff contention without Gobert. This isn't the 1980's when everyone is trying to drive past the center in the paint.

He's not sacrificing his offense. He has no offensive game outside of putbacks and layups/dunks.

It's just a bad deal. Sometime you just have to let someone walk or trade them when the salary is insane. They're team is hamstrung as a perennial 1st round team.

Maybe they'd still be in contention but they wouldn't likely be making the playoffs consecutively.

The Blazers have 2 studs on offense before their WCF run they were 2-8 in the 2nd round of the playoffs, similar to the Jazz who are 1-8.

You need offense and defense to win in the NBA, especially in the playoffs. You don't take a defensive player like Gobert off the Jazz and there not be a significant drop off.

It's one thing to say you dislike the contract but Gobert is a franchise player for the Jazz and you retain franchise players. Letting them walk tends to make your team worse and rebuilding a big pain.

You need good team defense to win. It's not all about one guy.

And if your franchise player is Rudy Gobert, you need to rebuild. That's not a franchise I'd want to watch.

I'd have traded him this year for some assets and additional players to help. Favors can step in for this year. That team isn't going anywhere other than the 1st round anyway. There is no way I'm handing out that contract to him. Maybe you do that if he's the final piece of your championship team. Not to keep hope to make the 2nd round.

[TheStig]

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I was hoping that there would be a value deal at around 13-15 but his agent is smart. With a real coach, he will show enough to get that 20+ in FA.

[the ultimates]

i don't agree that gobert is particularly sacrificing an offensive role for mitchell. he's an elite garbage man with ability in the open floor and some post ability. and you can make an argument that gobert isn't worth the max. but this idea that mitchell is some elite offensive player simply isn't true. average team ranks since mitchell has been there:

offense 14th
defense 6th

mitchell so far is a modest efficiency volume scorer. the kind of player who limits the potential of your offense if you're paying him big bucks to be its #1

If the Jazz are 14th with Mitchell since he's been there where would they be without him?

and their defense w/o gobert? which side of the ball has been more fundamental to their success?

Wizards offensive rating with Beal last three seasons 14th, 14th, 15th.

another guy who's not super efficient. you're making my point for me

Suns offensive rating with Booker last three seasons 30th, 28th, 12th.

Mithcell like Booker and Beal made a large jump in efficiency his third year, if he maintains that or betters it as the other two have that doesn't in any way limit your offensive potential.

i dunno if i'd call a 2 point jump a large one, but certainly he can continue to improve

I never implied nor said Gobert isn't worth the money especially to the Jazz. For me, scoring has been more fundamental to their success. Why because the 6th best defense with a bottom third offense which is what they would be without Mitchell isn't making the playoffs in today's NBA.

Your paint is not made when Beal is one of the most efficient two guards in the league especially factoring in usage. Nobody looking at his numbers or seeing him play has ever said he somehow limits the upper levels of a team's offensive potential.

For Mitchell what are you using for a two-point jump? I'm looking at TS% which increased from .537 two seasons ago to .558 last year.

[cjbulls]

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If true, and I am highly skeptical of this particular guy, it’s a failure on both sides. There is no world where Lauri takes 11, so why bother offering it and piss him off about the new FO.

For Lauri, why offer your near-max price coming off a down year and down preseason.

The point of the early signing is to max guys who have earned it, and for anyone else, find a good compromise that hedges on both sides. Neither party seems reasonable in that regard.

[LateNight]

While i am OK with something near $15m, if someone is going to pay him $20m based on his current performance I want it to be a different team.

Giving him $20m means we view him as a lead starter down the line and so far we haven't seen that consistently enough. I’m just not sure it’s how I want to use the cap space.

[Andi Obst]

Some other interesting names with an early extension deadline today:

Markelle Fultz
Lonzo Ball
John Collins
OG Anunoby
Derrick White
Devonte Graham

I think we could see some deals get done there. Collins and Atlanta probably won't reach a deal, but the other guys...why not? An Anunoby extension seems pretty likely now that Giannis is off the market in 2021.

[TheStig]

Lauri for a 1st. Reset with a new rookie.

I mean that depends on the pick. Would I trade Lauri for #30? Hell no. At 10ish, that makes sense.

[sco]

Lauri for a 1st. Reset with a new rookie.

I mean that depends on the pick. Would I trade Lauri for #30? Hell no. At 10ish, that makes sense.

Lauri is going to be a RFA, a late 1st would be as good as we could hope to get.

[Southpaw]

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I don't know which is crazier, the 11m or the 20m. Lauri signing a deal like Kuzma's would be ideal but around 14-16m would be fair for both sides imo. I wonder if we can trade him for a mid 1st in '21 or '22 if we fail to reach an agreement. Lauri reaching RFA status is scary because he'll get a huge offer from someone.

[TheStig]

Lauri for a 1st. Reset with a new rookie.

I mean that depends on the pick. Would I trade Lauri for #30? Hell no. At 10ish, that makes sense.

Lauri is going to be a RFA, a late 1st would be as good as we could hope to get.

I'd rather roll the dice with him if that's the return. I think he's going to perform much better this year.

[sco]

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[cjbulls]

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Another FA bites the dust to an over the cap team.

[cjbulls]

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[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I'd take a chance on Lonzo. Lauri can walk, no way on $20mil.

[DASMACKDOWN]

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See right when people give arguments ro why Lauri isnt worth 20 mil, you see this and it begs to differ

NBA Agents know market rates.

[Pax for Prez]

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[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

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See right when people give arguments ro why Lauri isnt worth 20 mil, you see this and it begs to differ

NBA Agents know market rates.

This sets the market for Lauri for about $16mil a year no?