Around the NBA: 2018 NBA Playoffs

[RastaBull]

Dipo has only played well in just two games this series.

Game 1 and game 2(missed a wide open 3 which would have tied the game)

He's good but not that good.

He doesn't need to be THAT good either. He should stick creating and driving because it makes the entire offense great (and in that regard, he has been very huge for the team even in games 2-4). He's taking way to many jump shots and 3P shots that the team doesn't need as much as they need him to move the ball and/or drive.

[DuckIII]

I read on general board that one ref called it a foul and one called it a jump ball ... so that allows them to review it to make the choice between those calls???

That still doesn't seem to be possible in the rules.

I'm pretty sure (may be pulling this out of my butt) that if refs call two different things they have to make a decision amongst themselves before looking at video.

According to the NBA offices, when a jump ball and a foul are called at the same time, the foul call controls. I don't have any reason to doubt this, as I don't see the upside to them in publicly taking this position if the rules don't support it.

I think this is necessarily a INCORRECT interpretation (I actually think they made it up) ... and would be impossible to see any way it works with the MILLIONS of foul calls that they've come together on before.

It tries to implement a "tie goes to the runner" advantage to the offensive player, which (in my understanding) has never existed. As evidence, if one ref calls a charge and one ref calls a defensive foul ... the refs are able to come together to make a consensus call (WITHOUT/before looking at video).

One ref calling a jump ball at exact same moment in NECESSARILY calling the play as a non-foul. If one ref calls non-foul and one ref calls foul ... this "precedent rule" would absolutely make it impossible to come together for consensus and waive off a personal foul call (which ... we see all the time)

You analogy is off. A jump ball call is a possession/dead ball call. A foul call is not. Its a penalty with multiple repercussions. So its not a situation where two fouls are called, creating a direct conflict between penalties that absolutely must be resolved. In this situation, only one penalty was called and the other call was merely one of possession, so the penalty stands.

It makes perfect sense and I see no reason why the NBA would so quickly and so publicly declare it so if the actual rules didn't confirm it.

[AKfanatic]

The funny thing about the Jumpball/Foul is if you go back and watch. The baseline ref is on the near side of the court, play happening on the far side. Lance grabs the ball, Lebron tosses his hands up and yells at the baseline ref whom is screened by Lebron from the play...the official by the bench, directly in front of the play tosses his hands up calling jumpball...the other official comes running from behind Lebron (whom was complaining to him) and calls the foul.

So another day, another Cavs game

[RastaBull]

According to the NBA offices, when a jump ball and a foul are called at the same time, the foul call controls. I don't have any reason to doubt this, as I don't see the upside to them in publicly taking this position if the rules don't support it.

I think this is necessarily a INCORRECT interpretation (I actually think they made it up) ... and would be impossible to see any way it works with the MILLIONS of foul calls that they've come together on before.

It tries to implement a "tie goes to the runner" advantage to the offensive player, which (in my understanding) has never existed. As evidence, if one ref calls a charge and one ref calls a defensive foul ... the refs are able to come together to make a consensus call (WITHOUT/before looking at video).

One ref calling a jump ball at exact same moment in NECESSARILY calling the play as a non-foul. If one ref calls non-foul and one ref calls foul ... this "precedent rule" would absolutely make it impossible to come together for consensus and waive off a personal foul call (which ... we see all the time)

You analogy is off. A jump ball call is a possession/dead ball call. A foul call is not. Its a penalty with multiple repercussions. So its not a situation where two fouls are called, creating a direct conflict between penalties that absolutely must be resolved. In this situation, only one penalty was called and the other call was merely one of possession, so the penalty stands.

It makes perfect sense and I see no reason why the NBA would so quickly and so publicly declare it so if the actual rules didn't confirm it.

Logically you cannot separate the calls by calling one a possession/dead ball call and the other a penalty with multiple repercussions. You are trying to distinguish them by their result ... and ignoring active reus. BOTH CALLS are made in the action of the game.

A ref calling a jump ball (and then stop the play) is WITHOUT QUESTION necessarily saying there has been no foul to that point (otherwise, surprise surprise, he would call a foul before calling the jump ball).
- If this still doesn't make sense, break it down into elements that have to be true to make a jump ball call.
- One element, is that there is not a foul
- You can't make a call for a jump ball if you believe there was a foul beforehand
- Ergo, in calling for a jump ball, you've also satisfied the element that there is no foul

A ref calling a foul on the exact same play (and then stopping the play) is necessarily saying there has been a foul on the play.

The two refs have made a decision on the exact same play as it happened live and they are different decisions. They have both made a decision in the action of the play whether there has been a foul or not.

This happens ALL THE TIME in the NBA on personal foul call decisions. Where two refs initially make different calls on personal foul calls. Example:
- Offensive player drives to basket and makes a layup
- One ref signals two points ... One ref signals offensive foul
- Again, like a jump ball call, the made basket call has elements ... one element is that there has been no offensive foul before the basket (on the scoring player or any other player on the court) ... and by calling a made basket that ref makes a conflicting call with the other ref on the same play
- As is allowed in rules (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong here) ... the refs are able to come together and make a decision (share what each saw and come to consensus) ... they would not be able to look at video and there is no "precedent rule".

The league could easily have resolved this by saying the officials came together and made a decision on the two differing opinions BEFORE looking at video. Maybe they did do that before going to the video for "hostile act" review. Again, I'm not really arguing about the call in the Pacers game ... but the flawed logic the league official articulated after the game (based on Kenny Smith's hypothetical).

[kyrv]

The funny thing about the Jumpball/Foul is if you go back and watch. The baseline ref is on the near side of the court, play happening on the far side. Lance grabs the ball, Lebron tosses his hands up and yells at the baseline ref whom is screened by Lebron from the play...the official by the bench, directly in front of the play tosses his hands up calling jumpball...the other official comes running from behind Lebron (whom was complaining to him) and calls the foul.

So another day, another Cavs game

Gotta love the classics.

[PrimzyBulls81]

This Cleveland team can lose to anyone and beat anyone.. it will depend on daily form of players,not named Lebron
On EAST im cheering for Philly right now,to go to finals ! on West -- New Orleans but its very unlikely.. Houston and GSW
are cleary the favourites there..