Who or How has the team grown/developed this year?

[PaKii94]

Actually the only people who've been TRUELY a disappointment have been Thad (wtf is up with him? He's our 4th highest usage player and almost as bad as coby) and Kornet (but there weren't really big expectations from him)

[HomoSapien]

Developed:
- Dunn is having his best year. He was always a net negative. Him learning to be a role player and make better decisions on defense has markedly improved his impact.
- Lavine has improved his decision making. I believe this is his first year where he isn't a big net negative player. Better effort on defense.

Not developed:
- Lauri is having his worst year. His skills look like they have deteriorated. Even his good games are him just being a spot up shooter and doing little else.
- Wendell doesn't look like he has added anything. His offense might actually be worse than his rookie year.

Overall, the big issue with the *team* is that Otto is out, Hutch sucks and is out and Thad just doesn't want to be here. The hole at the 3/4 spot is massive. I strongly suspect that with a healthy Otto and Hutch, the Bulls would have turned a few losses into wins and be hovering around the 0.500 that many here expected.

Dude, you're unbelivable. I usually don't like to accuse people of straight up trolling, but we're at the point where it's getting ridiculous.

Criticize Markkanen all you want when he deserves it, but he's been averaging 18pts for over a month now while shooting 41% from the perimeter on high volume, with a TS% north of 60. He already has more dunks than he did all last season AND has become an ok NBA defender. And his usage is STILL career-low.

I dunno man... I guess you'll see what you want to see. Lauri was bad in November but you're giving that stretch a lot more weight than what we've seen since.

You might want to tone it down a little bit.

That said, there wasn't anything incorrect with what Coldfish said. It's undeniable that thus far this has been Lauri's worst year -- if not statistically, at least in terms of failing to meet expectations. You're accusing him of seeing what he wants to see, but then you're doing that with the focus on December. Lauri's shooting has been remarkable, but even that performance isn't really on par with what we all hoped for considering his reboundings down, he's struggling wit any isolation moves, hasn't developed any semblance of an inside game, etc. Coldfish's take on Lauri isn't unique and seems like an odd thing to get upset about.

[Susan]

Developed:
- Dunn is having his best year. He was always a net negative. Him learning to be a role player and make better decisions on defense has markedly improved his impact.
- Lavine has improved his decision making. I believe this is his first year where he isn't a big net negative player. Better effort on defense.

Not developed:
- Lauri is having his worst year. His skills look like they have deteriorated. Even his good games are him just being a spot up shooter and doing little else.
- Wendell doesn't look like he has added anything. His offense might actually be worse than his rookie year.

Overall, the big issue with the *team* is that Otto is out, Hutch sucks and is out and Thad just doesn't want to be here. The hole at the 3/4 spot is massive. I strongly suspect that with a healthy Otto and Hutch, the Bulls would have turned a few losses into wins and be hovering around the 0.500 that many here expected.

Fish, you're much more of a historian than I am, but was this offseason one of the worst offseasons in Bulls history? Sato is completely average, Kornet is awful, Thad isn't working out and we extended Boylen. Has it been worse

Good question. The absolute worst offseason was the Ron Mercer / Erob year. That was horrific. Terrible players on long contracts.

What saves this year from being truly terrible was that all of the deals given out are short. I believe Boylen has a cheap buyout for the team. Sato, Thad and Kornet are two year deals with buyouts on the third.

This offseason didn't help the team but it didn't really lock them into problem long term contracts either. It was the GM equivalent of kicking the can down the road.

Disclosure: I thought it was a pretty good offseason at the time. I was pretty far off. Only Sato is worth a dam. I really wonder about Coby at this point.

Worst offseason was Wallace/Tyson/Tyrus/PJ Brown/Aldridge of the Paxson era.

That closed the window on that squad and all of the moves were wrong.

[coldfish]

Can you acknowledge that difference from last year? He's at ~60% of the 2pa he got last year. He didn't deserve higher usage during his putrid start but we are past that now.

#FEEDLAURI

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

[coldfish]

Fish, you're much more of a historian than I am, but was this offseason one of the worst offseasons in Bulls history? Sato is completely average, Kornet is awful, Thad isn't working out and we extended Boylen. Has it been worse

Good question. The absolute worst offseason was the Ron Mercer / Erob year. That was horrific. Terrible players on long contracts.

What saves this year from being truly terrible was that all of the deals given out are short. I believe Boylen has a cheap buyout for the team. Sato, Thad and Kornet are two year deals with buyouts on the third.

This offseason didn't help the team but it didn't really lock them into problem long term contracts either. It was the GM equivalent of kicking the can down the road.

Disclosure: I thought it was a pretty good offseason at the time. I was pretty far off. Only Sato is worth a dam. I really wonder about Coby at this point.

Worst offseason was Wallace/Tyson/Tyrus/PJ Brown/Aldridge of the Paxson era.

That closed the window on that squad and all of the moves were wrong.

I have to agree. I would only rank that team behind the Erob / Mercer year because at least BenWa made the second round one time.

[MeloRoseNoah]

Can you acknowledge that difference from last year? He's at ~60% of the 2pa he got last year. He didn't deserve higher usage during his putrid start but we are past that now.

#FEEDLAURI

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

I definitely agree with this take. During December, Lauri is rebounding back to his norm numbers bc the team as a whole is making an effort to feed him garbage baskets in order to get him going. However, his flaws are still obvious and haven't show much improvement:

1) Minimal dribbling abilities without any creation for others capability at this point
2) Garbage 3 point % on contested shots and off screen. His % has rebounded bc he's taking more set shots
3) Continue to be a weak rebounder
4) Garbage inside defender
5) Still injury prone and play soft against smaller and weaker defender. His bicep guns are just for show to score digits in nightclubs.

I give a lot of passes to Lauri in his first two years. However, this is the year to demand objective improvements. So far, he has been a bust and the clock has officially started on him. It's on him to sack up, play up to his potential, or get the hell out by the end of his rookie contract.

[PaKii94]

Can you acknowledge that difference from last year? He's at ~60% of the 2pa he got last year. He didn't deserve higher usage during his putrid start but we are past that now.

#FEEDLAURI

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

I'll put in numbers and stuff later but that's a flawed way to look at it.

1) Majority of Lauri's offense right now is 3 pointers. I showed how his 3 point attempts are up too. Obviously his FG assisted rate will be high. Even if his volume of FG was the same as last year, his assisted rate would be higher this year just due to the fact that the proportion of 3 pointers are higher. That's why I pointed out usage, 2fga, and assisted rate. Regardless, you are talking about makes when he doesn't have the shot opportunity....

2) your numbers prove my point. He needs more volume, more 2FGA to get those unassisted buckets. He's getting much less this year. I agree with you on that. However where I disagree with you is the schematics. He's not getting the ball to create, he's getting the ball as a finisher and he's finishing them. He needs to get the ball more. You see it the other way -- he can't do it that's why he doesn't get it. This is a flawed view because we've seen him do it before and his efficiency indicates he should be utilized more.

3) Finally, whatever the exact numbers, Lauri's assisted rate on 2fga compared to other bigs is still on the low end. I've given you the numbers on this in another thread. Bigs need to be fed. Lauri has been getting more looks recently but he should be getting even more!

Can you acknowledge that difference from last year? He's at ~60% of the 2pa he got last year. He didn't deserve higher usage during his putrid start but we are past that now.

#FEEDLAURI

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

I definitely agree with this take. During December, Lauri is rebounding back to his norm numbers bc the team as a whole is making an effort to feed him garbage baskets in order to get him going. However, his flaws are still obvious and haven't show much improvement:

1) Minimal dribbling abilities without any creation for others capability at this point
2) Garbage 3 point % on contested shots and off screen. His % has rebounded bc he's taking more set shots
3) Continue to be a weak rebounder
4) Garbage inside defender
5) Still injury prone and play soft against smaller and weaker defender. His bicep guns are just for show to score digits in nightclubs.

I give a lot of passes to Lauri in his first two years. However, this is the year to demand objective improvements. So far, he has been a bust and the clock has officially started on him. It's on him to sack up, play up to his potential, or get the hell out by the end of his rookie contract.

K. At least coldfish is backing his takes with some numbers...

[MeloRoseNoah]

Can you acknowledge that difference from last year? He's at ~60% of the 2pa he got last year. He didn't deserve higher usage during his putrid start but we are past that now.

#FEEDLAURI

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

I'll put in numbers and stuff later but that's a flawed way to look at it.

1) Majority of Lauri's offense right now is 3 pointers. Obviously his FG assisted rate will be high. Even if his volume of FG was the same as last year, his assisted rate would be higher this year just due to the fact that the proportion of 3 pointers are higher. That's why I pointed out usage, 2fga, and assisted rate.

2) your numbers prove my point. He needs more volume, more 2FGA to get those unassisted buckets. He's getting much less this year. I agree with you on that. However where I disagree with you is the schematics. He's not getting the ball to create, he's getting the ball as a finisher and he's finishing them. He needs to get the ball more. You see it the other way -- he can't do it that's why he doesn't get it. This is a flawed view because we've seen him do it before and his efficiency indicates he should be utilized more.

3) Finally, whatever the exact numbers, Lauri's assisted rate on 2fga compared to other bigs is still on the low end. I've given you the numbers on this in another thread. Bigs need to be fed. Lauri has been getting more looks recently but he should be getting even more!

Lauri has touch the ball plenty of times to create for others if he has the ability. The bottom line is that he sucks as a creator due to his weak ball handling and garbage shot % off the dribble.

Lauri refuses to take command and create for others bc he lacks the ability to do so. His PER would tank to Coby White 10-11 PER bad if he starts to hog the ball. Lauri is just a mediocre player right now, and it's 100% on him, not bc of the coach or offense schematics.

[PaKii94]

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

I'll put in numbers and stuff later but that's a flawed way to look at it.

1) Majority of Lauri's offense right now is 3 pointers. Obviously his FG assisted rate will be high. Even if his volume of FG was the same as last year, his assisted rate would be higher this year just due to the fact that the proportion of 3 pointers are higher. That's why I pointed out usage, 2fga, and assisted rate.

2) your numbers prove my point. He needs more volume, more 2FGA to get those unassisted buckets. He's getting much less this year. I agree with you on that. However where I disagree with you is the schematics. He's not getting the ball to create, he's getting the ball as a finisher and he's finishing them. He needs to get the ball more. You see it the other way -- he can't do it that's why he doesn't get it. This is a flawed view because we've seen him do it before and his efficiency indicates he should be utilized more.

3) Finally, whatever the exact numbers, Lauri's assisted rate on 2fga compared to other bigs is still on the low end. I've given you the numbers on this in another thread. Bigs need to be fed. Lauri has been getting more looks recently but he should be getting even more!

Lauri has touch the ball plenty of times to create for others if he has the ability. The bottom line is that he sucks as a creator due to his weak ball handling and garbage shot % off the dribble.

Lauri refuses to take command and create for others bc he lacks the ability to do so. His PER would tank to Coby White 10-11 PER bad if he starts to hog the ball. Lauri is just a mediocre player right now, and it's 100% on him, not bc of the coach or offense schematics.

I've given enough numbers in previous threads that show he hasn't been getting enough touches and last time he "hogged" the ball, he put up 26/13 but believe what you want.

[Susan]

The team has developed. We're the 6th worst team after years of being the 7th overall pick. Eventually we'll get to the 1st overall pick and then we'll have a franchise player and we'll be good again.

This is the worst franchise in the city right now. Dumpster FIRE.

[Michael Jackson]

Good question. The absolute worst offseason was the Ron Mercer / Erob year. That was horrific. Terrible players on long contracts.

What saves this year from being truly terrible was that all of the deals given out are short. I believe Boylen has a cheap buyout for the team. Sato, Thad and Kornet are two year deals with buyouts on the third.

This offseason didn't help the team but it didn't really lock them into problem long term contracts either. It was the GM equivalent of kicking the can down the road.

Disclosure: I thought it was a pretty good offseason at the time. I was pretty far off. Only Sato is worth a dam. I really wonder about Coby at this point.

Worst offseason was Wallace/Tyson/Tyrus/PJ Brown/Aldridge of the Paxson era.

That closed the window on that squad and all of the moves were wrong.

I have to agree. I would only rank that team behind the Erob / Mercer year because at least BenWa made the second round one time.

ERob was the year after Mercer. Mercer was the swing and a miss with Hill, TMac and Duncan year and Krause got ERob the following year which had literally no free agents to sign. ERob was like the best on the market IIRC and no one thought he was that good just showed some potential in Charlotte and appeared ready to break out. The Mercer signing was pure failure I don’t think there was much else the year of ERob if memory serves.

[MrSparkle]

Zach, and I think it’s cause he’s taken it upon himself to level up his defense and efficiency.

Otherwise? Nobody. This coaching staff can’t develop talent, and the talent isn’t exactly that promising.

[coldfish]

Can you acknowledge that difference from last year? He's at ~60% of the 2pa he got last year. He didn't deserve higher usage during his putrid start but we are past that now.

#FEEDLAURI

Interesting question. Let's dig into this. I had to do some math here:

Per 36 minutes, field goals made
2018/19 4.99 assisted 2.31 unassisted
2019/20 4.53 assisted 1.57 unassisted

His assisted fgm number is down less than a half per 36 minutes. The bigger drop is in his unassisted fgm number. This goes back to what has been getting said. He is creating his own shot less than in the past.

And just to put the cherry on the cake, I'll go along with your date range. From December 1 until now:
5.68 assisted 1.82 unassisted

So, during Lauri's hot streak he is getting MOAR assisted field goals than last year but LESS unassisted field goals.

Its Lauri. As discussed, he isn't creating for himself. Others are creating for him just fine. Lauri is currently 3rd in assisted field goal rate on the team behind Kornet and Arci. That's ridiculous and its not a good thing. He gets 50% more assisted shots than Lavine at this point (75 vs 50).

I'll put in numbers and stuff later but that's a flawed way to look at it.

1) Majority of Lauri's offense right now is 3 pointers. I showed how his 3 point attempts are up too. Obviously his FG assisted rate will be high. Even if his volume of FG was the same as last year, his assisted rate would be higher this year just due to the fact that the proportion of 3 pointers are higher. That's why I pointed out usage, 2fga, and assisted rate. Regardless, you are talking about makes when he doesn't have the shot opportunity....

2) your numbers prove my point. He needs more volume, more 2FGA to get those unassisted buckets. He's getting much less this year. I agree with you on that. However where I disagree with you is the schematics. He's not getting the ball to create, he's getting the ball as a finisher and he's finishing them. He needs to get the ball more. You see it the other way -- he can't do it that's why he doesn't get it. This is a flawed view because we've seen him do it before and his efficiency indicates he should be utilized more.

3) Finally, whatever the exact numbers, Lauri's assisted rate on 2fga compared to other bigs is still on the low end. I've given you the numbers on this in another thread. Bigs need to be fed. Lauri has been getting more looks recently but he should be getting even more!

The Bulls started the year with the motion offense where guys get the ball on the wing and its up to them to drive, call for pick and roll, etc. In the first game, Lauri drove. He got a ton of two pointers, virtually all unassisted, and had his best game of the year.

After that game, he stopped. He just hung out on the outside and shot 3's when open. Never took the ball and attacked. The offense to start the year was set up for Lauri to do exactly what you say, just like it was last February and for whatever reason he didn't do it after game 1.

As the season went on, the Bulls tried to get Lauri going by going to a number of set plays with him coming off screens being a primary option. It did drastically improve his efficiency and output. That said, he still has the opportunity to drive when he catches the ball of a screen and he virtually never does. I don't know what is up with him but his lack of FGA is on him.

I have shown numbers before. Its really, really hard to get high assist guys a high number of shots. Duncan Robinson is a great example. The guy blows Lauri out of the water as a shooter with his 67.5% ts. Miami has all the incentive in the world to get the guy shots. He is assisted on most of his attempts. How many does he get per game? 8.4 Don't you think Spolestra would get DR a ton more shots if he could? Of course . . . but he can't . . . because its really hard to get a guy who needs to be assisted a large volume of shots.

........

3) Bigs get assisted for 2p shots by getting near the rim, something Lauri rarely does. Gafford and Wendell get a higher percentage of their looks assisted because they are getting easy shots next to the rim.

..........

Overall, its funny that we look at this number completely differently. The best players are on the low end for %assisted. Lebron is around 30%. Doncic is around 20%. Kawhi is around 30%. I thought we wanted Lauri to be a star, not a 6'10" McDermott. The fact that his assisted percentage is so high is a bad thing. Dude needs to take the ball and create for himself. Its not up to others.

[Leslie Forman]

Can someone explain to me why y'all couldn't wait to pack Bobby Portis's bags, but Lauri Markkanen is the next Dirk just being held back by the coach?

[drosereturn]

Developed:
- Dunn is having his best year. He was always a net negative. Him learning to be a role player and make better decisions on defense has markedly improved his impact.
- Lavine has improved his decision making. I believe this is his first year where he isn't a big net negative player. Better effort on defense.

Not developed:
- Lauri is having his worst year. His skills look like they have deteriorated. Even his good games are him just being a spot up shooter and doing little else.
- Wendell doesn't look like he has added anything. His offense might actually be worse than his rookie year.

Overall, the big issue with the *team* is that Otto is out, Hutch sucks and is out and Thad just doesn't want to be here. The hole at the 3/4 spot is massive. I strongly suspect that with a healthy Otto and Hutch, the Bulls would have turned a few losses into wins and be hovering around the 0.500 that many here expected.

I think your biased regarding Dunn and Lauri when it should be polar opposite. My fear is management and most casual fans share this view which is why they keep making the same mistake, overpaying role players and still confused abt the core.
If you arent sure who to even develop, that is how you become a typical "treadmill team."
I would like to remind everyone the Bulls already made the same mistake when they thought Lavine was their Doncic and built the entire roster around him. So now you understand why established vets like Thad Young are suddenly struggling when he has been solid for decades. Lavine having bad games not only affects himself but the entire franchise since there is no alternative to him in case he fails. Which is why I hate this specific player even more than Dunn because he is the byproduct of our FO's failed propaganda. Adding fuel to the fire, Lavine's low intelligence actually led him to believe he is the savior to this team and his decent raw stat has given false hope to fans that they will somehow make the playoffs without a radical change.

Statistically, Dunn has had major regression every single year and his jumpshot has been non-existent. The media keeps hyping up his steals per game but not impressed at all when he was already averaging 2 steals per game. A guard without a jumpshot has no place no matter how you improve other ways.

While I agree Lauri is having one of his worst years statistically, I think he has improved his overall game in every facet possible even though it was incremental. From ball handling to getting to the line to defense. Not having someone like Lopez who sacrificed his statline for a young budding star like Lauri obviously hurts when all you have left is stat padders and players chasing for next contract. Also, we are already witnessing Feb Lauri and if he can just last his star performance until Feb, he should be taking 30 shots per game. Not guaranteeing he is a superstar but gotta commit at least 1 full yr before dumping him.

[stepic]

Overall, its funny that we look at this number completely differently. The best players are on the low end for %assisted. Lebron is around 30%. Doncic is around 20%. Kawhi is around 30%. I thought we wanted Lauri to be a star, not a 6'10" McDermott. The fact that his assisted percentage is so high is a bad thing. Dude needs to take the ball and create for himself. Its not up to others.

comparing a big like Lauri to wing men like LeBron, Doncic and Kawhi is kinda pointless. of course Lauri doesn't have the handles as players like that, and will rely more on %assisted.

[BigUps]

Overall, its funny that we look at this number completely differently. The best players are on the low end for %assisted. Lebron is around 30%. Doncic is around 20%. Kawhi is around 30%. I thought we wanted Lauri to be a star, not a 6'10" McDermott. The fact that his assisted percentage is so high is a bad thing. Dude needs to take the ball and create for himself. Its not up to others.

comparing a big like Lauri to wing men like LeBron, Doncic and Kawhi is kinda pointless. of course Lauri doesn't have the handles as players like that, and will rely more on %assisted.

He doesn't need handles like the elite players of LeBron, Doncic or Kawhi. I think we'd all be happy if he had handles similar to last nights young up and coming player named Brandon Ingram.

Lets not get too carried away with what we want him to be. He will never be a LeBron, but if he can't put the ball on the court and at least be a threat to get past his defender 1:1 then he'll be nothing more than a 6' 11" Kyle Korver with a worse shot. I don't think that what anyone wanted him to develop into and unfortunately its kind of where he's heading.

To bring it back, maybe Lauri is a "Burrito Full of Kyle Korverish Skills".

[BigUps]

Good question. The absolute worst offseason was the Ron Mercer / Erob year. That was horrific. Terrible players on long contracts.

What saves this year from being truly terrible was that all of the deals given out are short. I believe Boylen has a cheap buyout for the team. Sato, Thad and Kornet are two year deals with buyouts on the third.

This offseason didn't help the team but it didn't really lock them into problem long term contracts either. It was the GM equivalent of kicking the can down the road.

Disclosure: I thought it was a pretty good offseason at the time. I was pretty far off. Only Sato is worth a dam. I really wonder about Coby at this point.

Worst offseason was Wallace/Tyson/Tyrus/PJ Brown/Aldridge of the Paxson era.

That closed the window on that squad and all of the moves were wrong.

I have to agree. I would only rank that team behind the Erob / Mercer year because at least BenWa made the second round one time.

The fact that my question wasn't brushed off as rubbish is all I needed. The offseason was really bad. It moved the needle nowhere, while giving GarPax the ability to say "flexible" a ton of times in the season ending press conference.

You know you can hear it now. "Well, we signed players to solid deals that kept us flexible long term".

[Ice Man]

After last night, I'm having trouble reading this topic's question with a straight fact. My current answer runs something like this. "Have you seen these guys play?"

More charitably, Dunn has settled into a role, and LaVine and Lauri, at least in my view, have improved their defense. I can't say that I have seen other development. Wendell remains Wendell, the bench guys are the bench guys, and the team offense has taken a turn for the worse.

[coldfish]

Developed:
- Dunn is having his best year. He was always a net negative. Him learning to be a role player and make better decisions on defense has markedly improved his impact.
- Lavine has improved his decision making. I believe this is his first year where he isn't a big net negative player. Better effort on defense.

Not developed:
- Lauri is having his worst year. His skills look like they have deteriorated. Even his good games are him just being a spot up shooter and doing little else.
- Wendell doesn't look like he has added anything. His offense might actually be worse than his rookie year.

Overall, the big issue with the *team* is that Otto is out, Hutch sucks and is out and Thad just doesn't want to be here. The hole at the 3/4 spot is massive. I strongly suspect that with a healthy Otto and Hutch, the Bulls would have turned a few losses into wins and be hovering around the 0.500 that many here expected.

I think your biased regarding Dunn and Lauri when it should be polar opposite. My fear is management and most casual fans share this view which is why they keep making the same mistake, overpaying role players and still confused abt the core.
If you arent sure who to even develop, that is how you become a typical "treadmill team."
I would like to remind everyone the Bulls already made the same mistake when they thought Lavine was their Doncic and built the entire roster around him. So now you understand why established vets like Thad Young are suddenly struggling when he has been solid for decades. Lavine having bad games not only affects himself but the entire franchise since there is no alternative to him in case he fails. Which is why I hate this specific player even more than Dunn because he is the byproduct of our FO's failed propaganda. Adding fuel to the fire, Lavine's low intelligence actually led him to believe he is the savior to this team and his decent raw stat has given false hope to fans that they will somehow make the playoffs without a radical change.

Statistically, Dunn has had major regression every single year and his jumpshot has been non-existent. The media keeps hyping up his steals per game but not impressed at all when he was already averaging 2 steals per game. A guard without a jumpshot has no place no matter how you improve other ways.

Everyone is biased. You are, I am. IMO, my biases are closer to the truth than yours are.

First off, Dunn was gawd awful for most of his career. A huge net negative. Him improving on that to the point where he is helping the team is not a glowing endorsement and a statement that he should be a core piece. Its just a statement that he has developed. He leads the team in rpm right now which attests to how he impacts the game.

While I agree Lauri is having one of his worst years statistically, I think he has improved his overall game in every facet possible even though it was incremental. From ball handling to getting to the line to defense. Not having someone like Lopez who sacrificed his statline for a young budding star like Lauri obviously hurts when all you have left is stat padders and players chasing for next contract. Also, we are already witnessing Feb Lauri and if he can just last his star performance until Feb, he should be taking 30 shots per game. Not guaranteeing he is a superstar but gotta commit at least 1 full yr before dumping him.

Like I said, I am biased, you are biased, everyone is biased. If you think that Lauri has improved his game in every facet, I would argue that your biases are blinding you to reality. He is doing less than he ever has in some ways (career worst rebounding rate) and not made any significant improvement in multiple different areas. He is a horrific help defender, doesn't pass much (1.6 a per game), never goes in the post on switches, etc.

Here are his per 36 minutes, rookie vs this year:
2018 18.4p 9.1r 1.4a 0.7b 1.5to 43.4%fg 36.2%3p
2020 18.3p 7.9r 1.9a 0.6b 1.9to 41.9%fg 34.7%3p
That's not development. That is outright regression.

Before someone points out that he has been playing better lately, that's his thing. He has good months and then he tapers off, per 36:
Jan of 2018 19.4p 9.5r 1.6a 0.9b 1.2to 47.8%fg 43.2%3p
Dec of 2019 19.9p 6.9r 1.5a 0.8b 1.7to 50.8%fg 41.6%3p

So, yeah, his best month of his rookie year was basically the same as his best month this year. No development.