Let's talk Billy Donovan

[Chi town]

From a tactical standpoint, the team is complete trash right now. They are lost on both ends of the court. That's not supposed to happen in March. The systems were too simplistic to start with but now they seem even worse.

BD is a player's coach. He stays positive, doesn't pull guys quick, gives feedback, etc. but that can only take you so far. At this point, Derozan is just trashing everything BD is trying to do on both sides of the court and BD apparently isn't going to stand up to him.

This. Needs to be the main topic of conversation. DDR seems content just getting his.

[Andi Obst]

We might have another hoiberg situation on our hands

Billy is far from perfect, but this is silly.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

WOW, I don't even know where to start here. [delete]

Screw it I'm not going to.

[drosestruts]

Billy Donovan is a good coach, and this Bulls team have exceeded expectations.

He's not a perfect coach, nobody is, but I don't know how you look at this team and think Billy is somehow holding it back.

[MrSparkle]

Billy Donovan is a good coach, and this Bulls team have exceeded expectations.

He's not a perfect coach, nobody is, but I don't know how you look at this team and think Billy is somehow holding it back.

It’s really goofy.

Some fans like to be stuck in the wash and rinse cycle.

So what- now we want Thibs or Boylen back, to yell at everybody?

Vogel won a championship, now he’s coaching a fringe play-in team with an all-time great. His fault?

Phil Jacksons don’t grow on trees, and neither do Michael Jordans, Jimmy Butlers and Ja Morants.

We have a way better record than the Spurs and the great Popovich, even though Murray is probably the best player (right now) of the 2 rosters.

The reasonable thing to do is evaluate his 3rd year. The FO has a chance to address some critical roster weaknesses, young guys hopefully take another step (with less injuries), and Billy can introduce more sophisticated schemes. If they regress, then you can talk about firing him.

[Andi Obst]

It's not surprising that people question the coach first, given the general opinion on our FO here. But look at the roster and tell me who's done the better job: the guy who coached it to 42+ wins or the people who constructed it? To me, the answer is simple.

And I'm absolutely not saying the Bulls should fire their FO. They shouldn't. But maybe more fans should start to recognize that AK isn't some kind of magician and that some of his moves turned out to be straight up bad.

[MrSparkle]

It's not surprising that people question the coach first, given the general opinion on our FO here. But look at the roster and tell me who's done the better job: the guy who coached it to 42+ wins or the people who constructed it? To me, the answer is simple.

And I'm absolutely not saying the Bulls should fire their FO. They shouldn't. But maybe more fans should start to recognize that AK isn't some kind of magician and that some of his moves turned out to be straight up bad.

Hm- I wouldn’t go that far. Still think the alternative was an empty calorie “young team” (some GarPax holdovers, the #4 pick, the follow-up #7 or whatever pick, Zach blockbuster low-ball trade).

Short of very aggressively moving up for LaMelo, I’m not sure there were any missed opportunities other than patiently rebuilding another 2-4 years, which I’m pretty certain nobody but Gar’s wife had any time for.

The lack of urgency pursuing LaMelo (not that I wanted him either, but you know — he ended up being a superstar talent against most expectations), the pending nature of Pat’s quiet 10 PER game, and the mis-assessment of Vuc and Zach’s ceilings as a pair are probably my “watch list”.

But so far, I see an excellent 1y turnaround with a talented roster that got royally scammed by injuries. If Lonzo and Zach have knee issues beyond this year, then we are in trouble. Well, we’re already in trouble. But it’s hard imagining in October, having pessimism that 3 of your young starters are going to have major injury issues. I can’t really fault them for trying to put them in a winning situation, after being a league-worst squad for 4 years with no core pieces beyond a fringe star in Zach.

Project Pat is important. If he ends up being AK’s Bulls Mudiay, then that is a limp start with a crucial asset.

I agree the Vuc trade is basically a retrograde D+. His offensive decline was bigger than I imagined. The idea was good (to get a skilled vet in the post)- the cost was far too high.

Otherwise, I think a lot of other moves were As and Bs (inc. Caruso, Demar, Javonte and Ball- unless he is perpetually injured).

[othawhitemeat]

It's not surprising that people question the coach first, given the general opinion on our FO here. But look at the roster and tell me who's done the better job: the guy who coached it to 42+ wins or the people who constructed it? To me, the answer is simple.

And I'm absolutely not saying the Bulls should fire their FO. They shouldn't. But maybe more fans should start to recognize that AK isn't some kind of magician and that some of his moves turned out to be straight up bad.

Hm- I wouldn’t go that far. Still think the alternative was an empty calorie “young team” (some GarPax holdovers, the #4 pick, the follow-up #7 or whatever pick, Zach blockbuster low-ball trade).

Short of very aggressively moving up for LaMelo, I’m not sure there were any missed opportunities other than patiently rebuilding another 2-4 years, which I’m pretty certain nobody but Gar’s wife had any time for.

The lack of urgency pursuing LaMelo (not that I wanted him either, but you know — he ended up being a superstar talent against most expectations), the pending nature of Pat’s quiet 10 PER game, and the mis-assessment of Vuc and Zach’s ceilings as a pair are probably my “watch list”.

But so far, I see an excellent 1y turnaround with a talented roster that got royally scammed by injuries. If Lonzo and Zach have knee issues beyond this year, then we are in trouble. Well, we’re already in trouble. But it’s hard imagining in October, having pessimism that 3 of your young starters are going to have major injury issues. I can’t really fault them for trying to put them in a winning situation, after being a league-worst squad for 4 years with no core pieces beyond a fringe star in Zach.

Project Pat is important. If he ends up being AK’s Bulls Mudiay, then that is a limp start with a crucial asset.

I agree the Vuc trade is basically a retrograde D+. His offensive decline was bigger than I imagined. The idea was good (to get a skilled vet in the post)- the cost was far too high.

Otherwise, I think a lot of other moves were As and Bs (inc. Caruso, Demar, Javonte and Ball- unless he is perpetually injured).

I actually think if the Bulls just draft Haliburton and go after a 4 man, we would be a lot better off. However, I see why the potential for PAW was and is still there.

[PlayerUp]

I think it's on Billy to figure things out this offseason. He obviously has flaws but he can turn that around by making adjustments himself. We should give him another opportunity. If he fails again, then we look to change things up in 2023 offseason. If both coaches fail, then it's a confirmed a roster issue that can't be fixed and you retool in 2024.

[PlayerUp]

It's not surprising that people question the coach first, given the general opinion on our FO here. But look at the roster and tell me who's done the better job: the guy who coached it to 42+ wins or the people who constructed it? To me, the answer is simple.

And I'm absolutely not saying the Bulls should fire their FO. They shouldn't. But maybe more fans should start to recognize that AK isn't some kind of magician and that some of his moves turned out to be straight up bad.

I agree but we all see the noticeable problems with BD. I don't need to list them one by one people in this thread already did but alot of these are fixable and he must make adjustments himself in the offseason.

[drosestruts]

We're the third-worst rebounding team - coaching or talent?

we're 20th in free-throw attempts - a big improvement over last year but still bad. Coaching or talent?

2nd in 3p% but last in 3p attempts - this one to me is certainly somewhat coaching related.

Still we have the 6th most efficient offense. The 9th best offensive rating, but the 20th defensive rating (no one lower than us has a better playoff seed).

I think when you look at all this - you see a team that's vastly improved, but still very flawed in some areas, especially on defense and rebounding.

To me these are more personnel issues than they are coaching issues, and they're clearly our biggest issues.

[GusFring]

Ball and Caruso don't miss half the year then that defense is probably 5-8 spots higher but we can't always blame injuries. Comparing Billy's tenure to Hoiberg is hysteria though.

[mmmmmbeeer]

BD, like every other coach in the league, has his weaknesses. I don't think his weaknesses are enough to tank a team. I'm satisfied with the job he's done this season.

IMO, our issues have much more to do with injuries and roster construction than any sort of coaching deficiency. If neither Zach or Demar are on the floor, or if one of them is on the floor and struggling, who do we have to reliably turn to that will at least be aggressive on the offensive end? Coby, who is aggressive on O seemingly once every 2 weeks? Vuc and his woeful shooting? Caruso, who is not a guy who can throw up 20pts when he wants? A second round rookie in Ayo? Three, sometimes four, of our rotation players really aren't much more than bodies to fill a position....they aren't scorers, nor are they strong defenders (DJJ, Javonte, Thompson, sometimes Coby).

[samwana]

Was never a fan of Billy Donovan since before he got here, and I feel like my concerns back then about his competency are only being validated while watching this team collapse down the stretch. If the Bulls miss the playoffs, they should move on from him. He'll get you from point A to B, but that's about it.

i second this.

his offense is nothing special, his defense is nothing special. the talent is there, but it isn't coached properly.

the ball moves and players take the open shots created and we win and are great to watch. than we revert to watching and the ball sticking sometimes a few possesions after another and the other team goes on a deep run just because we don't play the teamball we are able to play.

it's mindboggling why timeouts are not used to stop that nonsense stuff. i could scream at my tv when javonte (who actually has a good 3pt shot passes a wide open shot away. ayo too. just so someone else has to take a horrific shot.

donovan is probably a great guy, but definitely not a great coach.

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[Ice Man]

We're the third-worst rebounding team - coaching or talent?

we're 20th in free-throw attempts - a big improvement over last year but still bad. Coaching or talent?

2nd in 3p% but last in 3p attempts - this one to me is certainly somewhat coaching related.

Still we have the 6th most efficient offense. The 9th best offensive rating, but the 20th defensive rating (no one lower than us has a better playoff seed).

I think when you look at all this - you see a team that's vastly improved, but still very flawed in some areas, especially on defense and rebounding.

To me these are more personnel issues than they are coaching issues, and they're clearly our biggest issues.

My thoughts exactly.

[MAQ]

Was never a fan of Billy Donovan since before he got here, and I feel like my concerns back then about his competency are only being validated while watching this team collapse down the stretch. If the Bulls miss the playoffs, they should move on from him. He'll get you from point A to B, but that's about it.

i second this.

his offense is nothing special, his defense is nothing special. the talent is there, but it isn't coached properly.

the ball moves and players take the open shots created and we win and are great to watch. than we revert to watching and the ball sticking sometimes a few possesions after another and the other team goes on a deep run just because we don't play the teamball we are able to play.

it's mindboggling why timeouts are not used to stop that nonsense stuff. i could scream at my tv when javonte (who actually has a good 3pt shot passes a wide open shot away. ayo too. just so someone else has to take a horrific shot.

donovan is probably a great guy, but definitely not a great coach.

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Honestly I wasnt big in the Donovan hiring either. I felt his success in OKC was mostly attributed to CP3.

I sit here today feeling as though I was wrong in my opinion. He does seem to be an adequate coach who can get his players into a position to succeed. He's not the best coach, but I dont feel like hes preventing the team from winning any more than it has.

Something that stuck with me from a different thread is the fact that we are a small ball team and reap no benefits that you would expect from playing at that disadvantage. We dont have an excessive amount of shooters. We dont get out on the break. Now both of those facets are being dragged down by the fact that Lonzo is out. That said, this team lacks more shooting than 1 player can fix. We've played at a disadvantage all season and given the results, I cant understand why we arent trying something even slightly different.

I guess in a way that does fall back on BD. But he wasnt given much in the way of trying a different approach with this team.

AKME's gotta keep tweaking the roster. And I'll be honest, I'm glad it's not my job. Because I dont see a lot of solutions.

Also, Vuc has underperformed so much offensively, if I were to blame anyone for our recent issues, its him, by far.

[drosestruts]

To further illustrate our rebounding problem, look at top rebounders per 100 possessions you have from the Bulls:

20. Vucevic - our best rebounder, I think everyone would agree
89. Troy Brown Jr - doesn't even really play
97. Javonte Green - our starting 4 is the 97th best rebounder in the league
135. DeMar DeRozan - not good, but not a role anyone was expecting him to excel in
147. Zach LaVine - ditto for Zach
212. Coby White - ditto for Coby

Throw the MLE at Boucher (32nd in rebounds per 100 pos.) and pray it's enough to entice him.

[Wingy]

When I watch the Bulls, the biggest thing that stands out to me on offense is that we don't have enough catch and shoot.

Coby, and to a lesser extent TBJ (mainly from the corner), are the only ones who shoot. Ayo passes up an incredible amount of threes a game. Javonte and DJJ pass up shots. Vuc's volume is down due to his lack of success.

We really make it hard on ourselves, and miss Lonzo desperately in that regard.

I'd like to see Billy encourage us to get more threes up - it would definitely open up the floor more. I think it would also result in more passing.

As for defense, I can't really pinpoint one specific issue we have. We seem to just suck at everything right now, but I think for us it has always started with ball pressure. When we were a good defensive team at the start of the season, that's where it started. So let's get back to that - we saw flashes of it vs Toronto.

We don’t get more threes up because Javonte and DJJ aren’t very good at it. Ok open from the corners, but nothing special. Plus DeMar seems to have lost the joy of passing. Perhaps some chicken or the egg here.

Ayo passes them up due to his slow release.

[Wingy]

We're the third-worst rebounding team - coaching or talent?

we're 20th in free-throw attempts - a big improvement over last year but still bad. Coaching or talent?

2nd in 3p% but last in 3p attempts - this one to me is certainly somewhat coaching related.

Still we have the 6th most efficient offense. The 9th best offensive rating, but the 20th defensive rating (no one lower than us has a better playoff seed).

I think when you look at all this - you see a team that's vastly improved, but still very flawed in some areas, especially on defense and rebounding.

To me these are more personnel issues than they are coaching issues, and they're clearly our biggest issues.

My thoughts exactly.

While these are good and valid points (AKME does have work to do), what has he done to try to mask our weaknesses? We excused vanilla stuff early due to new team. Now what’s the excuse nearly 90% through the season?

As someone said earlier, we still can’t even run a zone to try to change up against the constant attacks on Vucebrick.

We’ve done nothing to respond to the doubles against DeMar that have been going on for weeks. Never run him off screens to get him on the move first. Always dribble, dribble, dribble letting the defense get set and ready to attack.

Try something different. We’re the definition of insanity for quite a long time now.

[Lunartic]

I've said it reaptedly all season, the Bulls offense is gonna be their doom. The defense is primarily effort and a healthy Ball/Caruso and locked in Zach will be good enough to win in the first round but not if their offense is such junk.

Billy is to blame for the lack of any easy buckets or set plays. This free wheeling, wannabe GSW offense doesn't work for the Bulls players, it's either;

-DDR iso
-Zach Iso
-Coby stepback
-or a random bench player taking and bricking a 3

The Bulls can't hang with the top teams in the East because their offense is ridiculously easy to shutdown and relies on DDR making mid range jumpers with defenders draped on him. Zach is gimped and a shell of his former self right now.

Billy had all season to design something that would fit the talent he has and instead he got lazy and did exactly what he did in OKC- relied on Kevin Durant to iso their way to the playoffs. As much as people blame Westbrook for chasing KD out of town, it was also the pathetically anemic offense that KD was required to bolster every game.

The Bulls aren't talented enough to have a "players coach" designed to control egos. No one on the Bulls has ever done anything short of DDR and his TOR flameouts. The Bulls need an actual Xs & Os coach and should offer Brad Stevens 15m a year to leave Boston or try to poach Lue from the Clips.