How Bad Was That Dallas Win?

[League Circles]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

I'm with you on this one.

I hear you-and, as I mentioned-the guys on the court should have been trying to win. But why play Coby SO many minutes? And PWill? Caruso gets hurt all the time-let him sit. Play Vuc a bit, but he went for 20/10.
Adding a top 4 pick would REALLY help this team in the future. We had NOTHING to win from that game-our 10th seed spot was secure

Adding a top 4 pick might actually hurt and set us back, as it has for many, many , many teams including us multiple times (Marcus Fizer, Tyrus Thomas, etc etc). But we probably won't get a top 4 pick regardless. But ultimately it's pretty straightforward - we were trying to win the game cause that's the entire purpose of the **** endeavor. We had the game to win, not "NOTHING". We had souls to kill.

[League Circles]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

You've never played professional sports. Stop acting like your sports career is anything similar to the highest level of sports. Tanking is a thing in basically all the major sports. There's a reason for that. Remember what happened with the Bears this season?

Yeah, I'm sure they're all torn up about "not being competitive".

The reason for tanking is the same reason casinos and powerball exist. They appeal to losers. They're a great product to sell. I like the competition product more. I'll tune out if they sacrifice that for the loser product.

[Taj FTW]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

You've never played professional sports. Stop acting like your sports career is anything similar to the highest level of sports. Tanking is a thing in basically all the major sports. There's a reason for that. Remember what happened with the Bears this season?

Yeah, I'm sure they're all torn up about "not being competitive".

The reason for tanking is the same reason casinos and powerball exist. They appeal to losers. They're a great product to sell. I like the competition product more. I'll tune out if they sacrifice that for the loser product.

The Bulls are under .500. they are, by definition, losers.

[Taj FTW]

I'm with you on this one.

I hear you-and, as I mentioned-the guys on the court should have been trying to win. But why play Coby SO many minutes? And PWill? Caruso gets hurt all the time-let him sit. Play Vuc a bit, but he went for 20/10.
Adding a top 4 pick would REALLY help this team in the future. We had NOTHING to win from that game-our 10th seed spot was secure

Adding a top 4 pick might actually hurt and set us back, as it has for many, many , many teams including us multiple times (Marcus Fizer, Tyrus Thomas, etc etc). But we probably won't get a top 4 pick regardless. But ultimately it's pretty straightforward - we were trying to win the game cause that's the entire purpose of the **** endeavor. We had the game to win, not "NOTHING". We had souls to kill.

This is absolutely ridiculous

[League Circles]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

[League Circles]

You've never played professional sports. Stop acting like your sports career is anything similar to the highest level of sports. Tanking is a thing in basically all the major sports. There's a reason for that. Remember what happened with the Bears this season?

Yeah, I'm sure they're all torn up about "not being competitive".

The reason for tanking is the same reason casinos and powerball exist. They appeal to losers. They're a great product to sell. I like the competition product more. I'll tune out if they sacrifice that for the loser product.

The Bulls are under .500. they are, by definition, losers.

At least they're trying to be winners. I appreciate that. They can still have a good end to this season, and that's what I'm rooting for. Cause, you know, sports.

[DuckIII]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

For about the 9 millionth time, no one expects the players on the floor to throw a game. As for the rest of it, our GM, Coach and every player who sat out have all played sports at (presumably) a significantly higher level than you ever did. And they did in fact make decisions intended to lose the game. So did the entire Mavericks organization. So how does that align with your post?

[League Circles]

I hear you-and, as I mentioned-the guys on the court should have been trying to win. But why play Coby SO many minutes? And PWill? Caruso gets hurt all the time-let him sit. Play Vuc a bit, but he went for 20/10.
Adding a top 4 pick would REALLY help this team in the future. We had NOTHING to win from that game-our 10th seed spot was secure

Adding a top 4 pick might actually hurt and set us back, as it has for many, many , many teams including us multiple times (Marcus Fizer, Tyrus Thomas, etc etc). But we probably won't get a top 4 pick regardless. But ultimately it's pretty straightforward - we were trying to win the game cause that's the entire purpose of the **** endeavor. We had the game to win, not "NOTHING". We had souls to kill.

This is absolutely ridiculous

So if it's absolutely ridiculous that a #4 pick could hurt us, you would argue that it's absolutely ridiculous that any draft pick could hurt a team, right? So the 60th pick in the draft will always help a team relative to alternatives? That's nonsense. Every player acquisition can be a pro or con.

[kodo]

The FO did try to lose this somewhat, Lavine & Demar were both DNP. Vuc didn't play his normal 35 minutes, they should have DNP'd Caruso not sure what that was about. And we were getting stomped most of the game.

Just when the game looked nice and done, Kidd went aggressively for the loss and put in a bunch of undrafted guys, below Marko tier who was at least a 2nd rounder.

I don't think the FO is blind to benefits of losing these last two games. The reality is that our tank squad, Carlik & Taylor Terry, actually went 6-6 in the final minutes and scored 14 points on 100% shooting.

[Stratmaster]

Demar is going to be a year older.

With DDR it’s not even about the age so much as it is the contract. The target buyers for him are teams in the midst of the arms race to win right now. Teams would only really be interested in him because of the postseason. By not trading him at deadline you cut his value to such a buyer in half.

I am still 100% in favor of trading him this summer and believe he’ll still have “better fitting role players” value. But whatever that value is, it will be much less than it was two months ago when he offered 2 postseason runs and teams were aggressively making “win right now” moves. It was an ideal market despite his age, and we know AK knew it because he’s the one who told us about it.

One of the biggest strategic “real time” blunders in Bulls history.

I agree with this 100%

[coldfish]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

I'm not sure who you are referring to. This post seems rather detached from the discussion. I haven't seen anyone say that the players should have intentionally lost or would have.

Dallas management decided that losing the game was in their long term best interest and set things up to accomplish that. Do you think that Jason Kidd "never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise"?

[Stratmaster]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

Amen

[coldfish]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

It was pretty predictable that Chicago was going to struggle the rest of the season. They have very little path to improve themselves for next year too. The REAL team isn't very good and isn't very entertaining.

We aren't choosing tanking over a good team. We are choosing turning a bad team with no future into a slightly worse team now with a better future.

[League Circles]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

It was pretty predictable that Chicago was going to struggle the rest of the season. They have very little path to improve themselves for next year too. The REAL team isn't very good and isn't very entertaining.

We aren't choosing tanking over a good team. We are choosing turning a bad team with no future into a slightly worse team now with a better future.

Pretty predictable they'd struggle the rest of the season from what point? We're 13-9 since Beverly started playing.

They actually have a super straightforward way to improve themselves - try to occasionally get offensive rebounds and be more willing to shoot open three point shots. Though we also should be able to improve the roster via the full MLE and further player development.

I like watching us play. More entertaining than an otherwise identical team that would lose to the Mavs and Pistons while they should be fine tuning their play for the playoffs.

As for the bolded part, just like I said it's powerball/casinos. Their patrons aren't choosing losing their money over having enough money, they're choosing a worse life with a mirage of a better future over a better life with the future they deserve.

Do people have these strange psychological stances for other TV shows they like? "Why on earth would we waste time in season 4 bringing in Frank Vincent/Phil Leotardo when it's just gonna hurt our ability to make season 5 and 6 better, and since season 4 isn't gonna fulfill every last crevice of emotional entertainment desperation that we have, let's just skip seeing him in season 4. Maybe even trade Tony for some young prospects like Benny Fazio and Walden Belfiore. After all, since Tony is over 30, he won't even be good enough in season 5 and 6 anymore to maximize the chemsitry with Leotardo, so let's just wait to try to make this good. There, season 4 is fixed and season 5 and 6 will have to be better."

[Wingy]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

Seems pretty ironic. While you’re not wrong as you and anyone else can enjoy the Bulls or whatever from whatever lens you choose, it’s funny how you label the other point of view. Being satisfied with “being up” and just being ok with “competition” (if that’s what you called this Bulls team’s effort on too many nights…”competing”) - that seems like a loser’s mentality from my point of view.

Most savvy fans understand becoming a “favorite to win a title” doesn’t happen over night. It’s a long progression, a journey, and the attempts to get there cyclically fail time and again. That’s the nature of it. Part of that progression is often being bad. It’s playing the odds, especially when you have more control over them (your picks vs some far off future pick from another team). It’s especially important when you have a Zion, Ja, Luka sort of talent available this draft in Wembanyama.

It has zero to do with “loser mentality” and has all to do with knowing you can’t constantly bring a figurative knife to a gun fight and think you’re going to have a great chance at success.

I’m ok with tanking because it’s a path that can lead to a higher ceiling. I’d be ok with a ‘middle road’ attempt if a team showed fight and professionalism. I saw too many nights this team got giddy after accomplishing what….a 2-game win streak …only to come out fat and flat the next game.

So no, with this team the ‘middle build’ went out the window for me. The context matters. This particular team had/has tank written all over it.

[League Circles]

What will be especially funny will be if whatever team in the final lottery position we could have been in if we had lost more (or less lol?) ends up with a top 4 pick, people will create non satirical threads where they suggest that "we would have had the 3rd pick if we had lost to Dallas the way any smart FO would!" Because they only believe in destiny when it aligns with their agenda. They believe we're destined to lose the play-in or lose in the first round, and they believe that the lottery balls that get 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th picks are destined. Of course, neither are true. But if a team with a better record than us moves up in the lottery, there will be zero arguments that we should have won more to get that pick (because then the lottery balls picked were flukes).

[HearshotKDS]

Bulls FO has, in my view, been prioritizing making the playin this season over making moves that improve the team in the long term. I'm not surprised they are hanging their hat on this team making the playin, im sure it takes internal pressure off of the FO in the (very) short term but good luck selling this stint at your next job lol

[League Circles]

Most savvy fans understand becoming a “favorite to win a title” doesn’t happen over night.

Most savvy fans understand that becoming a favorite to win a title will probably happen between zero and two times for the rest of their lives (depending on age) no matter what the FO of their team does. It's essentially an insane thing to aspire to.

[League Circles]

Bulls FO has, in my view, been prioritizing making the playin this season over making moves that improve the team in the long term. I'm not surprised they are hanging their hat on this team making the playin, im sure it takes internal pressure off of the FO in the (very) short term but good luck selling this stint at your next job lol

Who's hanging a hat?

[MrSparkle]

Most savvy fans understand becoming a “favorite to win a title” doesn’t happen over night.

Most savvy fans understand that becoming a favorite to win a title will probably happen between zero and two times for the rest of their lives (depending on age) no matter what the FO of their team does. It's essentially an insane thing to aspire to.

This is true. Championship or bust is kinda masochistic.