What if the Bulls just went for it?

[ChettheJet]

I don't see how the Bulls trade their 8-15 players even with that imaginary PORT pick and get enough to go into the playoffs, not play in, and then advance to 9dreaming here) the conference finals. Because they aren't deep enough in the starting 5, + Ball and Smith anyway, so how do they add a player or 3 in the 8-10 slots or push a starter back to really make a run?

Lately while watching this team, I really have felt that if Pat were either to rebound more or spend more time at the three with Smith or Craig at the 4 that (assuming his conditioning improves as he continues to shake off the injury) that this team would be pretty solid.

It looks really difficult to change the way they use Patrick. He's the 4 but one of their top 3 3 point shooters who doesn't shoot enough, he may be their #2 defender behind Lonzo and part of his game is getting back on defense so it's impossible for him to get stuck under the boards on offense and he should get out and run on the break but again he can't do that from under the basket on defense. You saw last night Giddey and Lavine with 10 rebounds each, somebody else has to get out on the break.

Now is the time for the Bulls to pick a lane with PWill. The options are of course trading him or making other moves but ending up with him at the 3.
Trading Vuc and getting a another center splitting time with Smith, getting a PF is his deal or stuck with Vuc and getting a real PF or a center and having Smith play the 4. A PF could be part of a Lavine trade or they could move Coby and Ayo freeing up Zach to be the the SG and Patrick at the 3 but they still need a 4.

Saying he needs to be better isn't the answer, te Bulls continue to have the guard heavy rotation and until they change that they're stuck with not exploiting Williams for what he has shown signs of what can do.

[dougthonus]

There have been consistent rumors re: Vooch and Golden State.

Lonzo is probably more in the situation where he needs to keep proving his health and perhaps someone bites at the deadline.

Yeah, I haven't head the rumor of what GS is offering though, and if you look at their current salaries, it's hard to figure out what they would offer that matches salary wise and makes sense for us.

[boozapalooza]

Go for what? A 1st round loss. No way in Hell would I trade for Butler btw.

Who are we to scoff at trading for a guy who has led his team to the finals twice in the last 5 years? I realize its not gonna happen, but any team would be lucky to have Jimmy Butler come playoff time. He very likely would raise our ceiling above a 1st round exit.

[MrSparkle]

Here’s my idea of “F it”, go for it:

Vuc, Craig for Kuminga, Moody, Anderson, 2 SRPs

Pat, Ayo, Duarte, Jevon, Terry for MPJ, Saric, Nnaji, D. Jordan

Coby Lonzo THT
Zach Moody
Giddey Matas Phillips
MPJ Kuminga Anderson Nnaji
Smith Jordan Saric

Run n gun. 100 3PAs per game. 15 passes per possession.

[jnrjr79]

There have been consistent rumors re: Vooch and Golden State.

Lonzo is probably more in the situation where he needs to keep proving his health and perhaps someone bites at the deadline.

Yeah, I haven't head the rumor of what GS is offering though, and if you look at their current salaries, it's hard to figure out what they would offer that matches salary wise and makes sense for us.

I haven't seen much rumored in the way of what specific players they would offer, but the latest reporting is they only want to attach 2nd to whoever the players are, and I assume the Bulls are holding out for the time being to see if someone comes around with a 1st.

This is one of those deals where that makes sense, IMO. You've got another 5 weeks where a team could suffer an injury and decide to go for it.

Re: GS, it looks like the Bulls would probably need to send one or two other players out with Vooch, because GS is going to need to combine 3 salaries unless you're dealing for Wiggins, which I assume you aren't.

Vooch + Duarte's expiring works for Payton's expiring, Looney's expiring & either of Hield or Anderson. I assume they don't want to unload Hield, but he and Anderson make the same amount of money, so they are interchangeable for salary matching purposes.

[Red8911]

Replacing patrick with a starting level player would make a huge difference.

[Red8911]

Go for what? A 1st round loss. No way in Hell would I trade for Butler btw.

Always loved Jimmy, not happening but wouldn’t say no to him returning to the Bulls.

[Guru]

There have been consistent rumors re: Vooch and Golden State.

Lonzo is probably more in the situation where he needs to keep proving his health and perhaps someone bites at the deadline.

Yeah, I haven't head the rumor of what GS is offering though, and if you look at their current salaries, it's hard to figure out what they would offer that matches salary wise and makes sense for us.

Payton-Looney and Podz or Santos or Waters or Jackson-Davis All work

[kodo]

I don't think there's any what if, it's been AK's plan since the summer. He said point blank the goal is the same, to win every game.
But even win as much as we can being the direction as it always was, we're still a 10th seed.

Detroit is one of the hottest teams in the EC right now, 8-2 in their last 10 even w/ the Ivey injury. We can only dream of the consistency to go 8-2. Philly is now playing with PG & Embiid, they'll break into the play-in by the season end.

So one of ATL/MIA/CHI will be knocked out. I'll take the middle and say CHI still squeaks into the playoffs as the 10th seed.

[jnrjr79]

There have been consistent rumors re: Vooch and Golden State.

Lonzo is probably more in the situation where he needs to keep proving his health and perhaps someone bites at the deadline.

Yeah, I haven't head the rumor of what GS is offering though, and if you look at their current salaries, it's hard to figure out what they would offer that matches salary wise and makes sense for us.

Payton-Looney and Podz or Santos or Waters or Jackson-Davis All work

Presumably the Bulls are not going to do a 3-for-1 swap and have to cut 2 players, so you need to figure out who is going out with Vooch in these scenarios.

[Guru]

Yeah, I haven't head the rumor of what GS is offering though, and if you look at their current salaries, it's hard to figure out what they would offer that matches salary wise and makes sense for us.

Payton-Looney and Podz or Santos or Waters or Jackson-Davis All work

Presumably the Bulls are not going to do a 3-for-1 swap and have to cut 2 players, so you need to figure out who is going out with Vooch in these scenarios.

Thats where the Pistons get Duarte or someone.

[Guru]

If you could get an absolute star it would be worth it, even a dominant big.

If you added Giannis to this roster we are contenders.

[drosestruts]

What does going for it look like? Trying to package Giddey and Williams for an upgrade?

Suppose you could try and add Duarte to that as an expiring, maybe Carter if they don't mind his extra year.

Could be a difficult thing to pull off even if we wanted to.

[Chi town]

I don't see how the Bulls trade their 8-15 players even with that imaginary PORT pick and get enough to go into the playoffs, not play in, and then advance to 9dreaming here) the conference finals. Because they aren't deep enough in the starting 5, + Ball and Smith anyway, so how do they add a player or 3 in the 8-10 slots or push a starter back to really make a run?

Lately while watching this team, I really have felt that if Pat were either to rebound more or spend more time at the three with Smith or Craig at the 4 that (assuming his conditioning improves as he continues to shake off the injury) that this team would be pretty solid.

It looks really difficult to change the way they use Patrick. He's the 4 but one of their top 3 3 point shooters who doesn't shoot enough, he may be their #2 defender behind Lonzo and part of his game is getting back on defense so it's impossible for him to get stuck under the boards on offense and he should get out and run on the break but again he can't do that from under the basket on defense. You saw last night Giddey and Lavine with 10 rebounds each, somebody else has to get out on the break.

Now is the time for the Bulls to pick a lane with PWill. The options are of course trading him or making other moves but ending up with him at the 3.
Trading Vuc and getting a another center splitting time with Smith, getting a PF is his deal or stuck with Vuc and getting a real PF or a center and having Smith play the 4. A PF could be part of a Lavine trade or they could move Coby and Ayo freeing up Zach to be the the SG and Patrick at the 3 but they still need a 4.

Saying he needs to be better isn't the answer, te Bulls continue to have the guard heavy rotation and until they change that they're stuck with not exploiting Williams for what he has shown signs of what can do.

Pat will never play the 3 for Billy. He plays 3 guards every night and Giddey is the 3. Lonzo plays the same spot.

[GoBlue72391]

[GoBlue72391]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

That's so funny because the one thing I remember reading over and over from multiple people on multiple websites at the time Vuc signed that contract was that it's "easily moveable." He's playing the best he ever has in his life and yet his contract is still such a hinderance.

I saw the same assurances uttered just as frequently when Pat signed his "easily moveable" contract as well.

As for Lonzo, it's great that he's even playing at all, but I'm not sure he has any trade value. He's still injury prone, can't play big minutes, and when you take the emotion out of the equation his scoring/shooting numbers are pretty terrible. Having said that, he does have a noticeable impact on the game regardless of the numbers due to his defense and playmaking. I just can't see a team trading much at all for him, even as an expiring contract. Maybe like a 2nd rounder and a useless salary filler player.

[GoBlue72391]

Here’s my idea of “F it”, go for it:

Vuc, Craig for Kuminga, Moody, Anderson, 2 SRPs

Pat, Ayo, Duarte, Jevon, Terry for MPJ, Saric, Nnaji, D. Jordan

Coby Lonzo THT
Zach Moody
Giddey Matas Phillips
MPJ Kuminga Anderson Nnaji
Smith Jordan Saric

Run n gun. 100 3PAs per game. 15 passes per possession.

I'll eat my hat if the Warriors do that Vuc trade.

[GoBlue72391]

Replacing patrick with a starting level player would make a huge difference.

Yeah, honestly. Even Torrey Craig will likely be a big upgrade if we commit to going for it. I guess if we can't get anything worthwhile in a trade for Zach and Vuc, then you might as well go for the 1st round exit rather than giving them up for garbage.

[jnrjr79]

Come on now. The Bulls have to look at the bigger picture for once here.

The entire point of playing the vets this season was to raise their trade value. Now that Vuc, Lonzo and Zach are doing that in the best way you could possibly have imagined, you can't waste the opportunity if it presents itself. Getting positive value for Lonzo and Vuc was a laughable idea before the season. If you can do that now, you have to do it. I agree that it's more difficult with Zach because his value around the league still seems to be non-existent for some reason and he's playing to well to dump him for a MPJ/Nnaji package. But if you can find actual value there, you take that as well.

This team isn't going anywhere. Keeping that pick has to be priority number 1.

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

That's so funny because the one thing I remember reading over and over from multiple people on multiple websites at the time Vuc signed that contract was that it's "easily moveable." He's playing the best he ever has in his life and yet his contract is still such a hinderance.

I saw the same assurances uttered just as frequently when Pat signed his "easily moveable" contract as well.

As for Lonzo, it's great that he's even playing at all, but I'm not sure he has any trade value. He's still injury prone, can't play big minutes, and when you take the emotion out of the equation his scoring/shooting numbers are pretty terrible. Having said that, he does have a noticeable impact on the game regardless of the numbers due to his defense and playmaking. I just can't see a team trading much at all for him, even as an expiring contract. Maybe like a 2nd rounder and a useless salary filler player.

Is it? Most of the rumor mill reporting this year has said Vooch is more likely to get moved than Zach b/c Vooch's contract is manageable.

IMO, the problem before this year was Vooch was playing poorly, and he's more moveable now because he's playing well. It's that simple.

[GoBlue72391]

There have been consistent rumors re: Vooch and Golden State.

Lonzo is probably more in the situation where he needs to keep proving his health and perhaps someone bites at the deadline.

Yeah, I haven't head the rumor of what GS is offering though, and if you look at their current salaries, it's hard to figure out what they would offer that matches salary wise and makes sense for us.

Payton-Looney and Podz or Santos or Waters or Jackson-Davis All work

I'm pretty sure they (delusionally) view Podz as untouchable.