Patrick Williams is having his worst year

[panthermark]

We've had some players over the years on this roster I didn't like - especially brief rentals. Never liked Jabari Parker before, didn't like him whatsoever that year he was here, that was that. As a teen I hated Bill Wennington for basically no reason at all, looking back.

Pat Williams, I believe, is single handedly my least favorite Bull of all time. Full stop. I can't think of someone that's routinely pissed me off for an entire career.

He hits the trifecta of looking terrible by subjective eye test, traditional counting stats, and advanced metrics. And unfortunately other teams know that too and he'd be a negative asset in any trade. Who knows, though, maybe some other GM has seen the six or eight games in his entire goddamn career that he's looked like a valuable starter.

X1000
Easily my least favorite Bull that has played any real time here. Hated the contract when signed. I wanted him traded so badly years ago for Kyle Kuzma...who isn't great (awful on D, net negative) but at least has a pulse.

[fleet]

He will be fine. It will be a steal of a contract.

Already is

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willipa01.html

There are some metrics that aren't the worst he has had but most of the big ones point to him having his worst year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2025/on-off/

His net rating is -11.0 which is really bad. The Bulls are +2.1 with him on the bench, which is a slightly above average team. With him on the floor its at -8.9 which would put them as one of the worst teams in the league. He looks fatter, slower and less athletic than in the past.

Did he just get paid and is now mailing it in? Is there some injury?

It looks to me from what I have seen that AKME has dictated that Patrick must play. His minutes don't make any sense, purely based on contribution. Torrey Craig is clearly much better. I would argue that Matas is better too but that's more debatable. Ball is better. This could devolve into an AKME thread but a lot of the negative impact here can be redirected to them. He was a bad pick that they doubled down on by resigning and now tripled down by dictating minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html

Last comment: Despite getting unbelievable amounts of entitlement minutes, Patrick is 29th in his class in VORP. 28th in BPM. A money throwing poop at the draft board could have picked better that year.

I think It’s got to devolve into an AKME thread. It’s not just what the GM is doing, a lot of people do not believe their own eyes. The Bulls doubled down on a mistake, and predictably, so did AKME. If Billy is being told who to play, and the player is terrible, what are we doing here as a franchise.

[Tetlak]

He looks fatter, slower and less athletic than in the past.

Did he just get paid and is now mailing it in? Is there some injury?

I don't mean this as a defense of Pat, but I had noted in the off-season, he basically couldn't go hard on any lower body work out (read, he couldn't do any cardio at all) for like 6-7 months due to the foot injury, and it was likely he was going to come in out of shape, which as you noted, sure as hell looks true.

Beyond that, he had no time to work on his game at all. He wasn't even 100% at the start of camp.

So it's not surprising even in the slightest that he looks awful to me this year, I predicted that would be the case regardless, and it sure looks like it has been.

Will Pat get better in the future? Who knows. I think he's got other problems than the above too (ie, he's just really slow at perceiving what is going on and takes too long to process, and he simply never was nearly as athletic as people thought he was, and has a low skill level that has never improved), but fundamentally, you'd expect he can get back into much better shape if he can end the season healthy and at least get back to the previous level of mediocrity.

With all due respect, he's had 5 years to work on his game. Sure, he's had injuries, but that's still a large portion of 5 years to work and get better.

I refuse to accept that as an excuse (even though I know you're not using it as one)

[Future Coach]

I think what's been mentioned about his foot/health and conditioning are reasonable/fair points.

However, he was mediocre before the injury, and he is mediocre at best after the injury.

I'm not really big on tracking stats, but rather watching games and observing impact. While some like to claim he is some sort of defensive anchor, the truth when you watch the games is that other teams are largely indifferent towards him. He doesn't force the other team out of their intended/designed offense or plays. Other teams don't feel they have to swing the ball away from where he is on defense. He doesn't create so much pressure that whoever he is guarding has to move away from the basket and/or pass the ball right away. He's really just another player out there on defense, and it is a mediocre defense.

Otherwise, we know he isn't very good with the ball in his hands. We also know he doesn't make frequent and effective cuts off the ball. And he has proven that he is not one of those players who regularly attacks and fights for offensive rebounds. Sure, our offensive "strategy" may play a part in that, but he's just proven to not be impactful on either side of the court.

Overall, he certainly hasn't "earned" his minutes with his play and impact on the court.

[GoBlue72391]

He's the biggest scouting blunder in team history. There was never anything there other than than the makeup of a solid 3&D role player. He's Tony Snell, he's Keith Bogans. The worst part is AKME doubling down and re-signing him for 5/$90M and now presumably dictating that he keeps starting and getting minutes.

If anyone ever believed he could be more than that it's because they allowed themselves to be fooled by his prototypical frame and open run highlights against a mix of NBA guys and random schmoes playing pickup at half effort. The skills were always lacking and the athleticism and defense were always overrated, and the mentality issues were glaring red flags from day one.

He's a bust since he was drafted 4th overall and plays like a late 1st rounder, but he's basically become the exact player I thought he would be.

I don't expect him to be this bad forever, he'll get back to solid 7th/8th man production eventually I would think, but even so that's not worth $18M a year.

Bench him then dump him for whatever you can get. Its not like his trade value is going to increase if we keep starting him. Maybe we can swap him for an equally young bust and maybe turn that player around.

He's my least favorite player ever and it's not even close. I can't wait for the day he no longer plays for my team.

[SirKaiser]

Jeez thanks for reminding me he was the #4 overall pick ^

Totally forgot and was disappointed that we took him somewhere in the teens.

[coldfish]

He will be fine. It will be a steal of a contract.

Already is

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willipa01.html

There are some metrics that aren't the worst he has had but most of the big ones point to him having his worst year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2025/on-off/

His net rating is -11.0 which is really bad. The Bulls are +2.1 with him on the bench, which is a slightly above average team. With him on the floor its at -8.9 which would put them as one of the worst teams in the league. He looks fatter, slower and less athletic than in the past.

Did he just get paid and is now mailing it in? Is there some injury?

It looks to me from what I have seen that AKME has dictated that Patrick must play. His minutes don't make any sense, purely based on contribution. Torrey Craig is clearly much better. I would argue that Matas is better too but that's more debatable. Ball is better. This could devolve into an AKME thread but a lot of the negative impact here can be redirected to them. He was a bad pick that they doubled down on by resigning and now tripled down by dictating minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html

Last comment: Despite getting unbelievable amounts of entitlement minutes, Patrick is 29th in his class in VORP. 28th in BPM. A money throwing poop at the draft board could have picked better that year.

I think It’s got to devolve into an AKME thread. It’s not just what the GM is doing, a lot of people do not believe their own eyes. The Bulls doubled down on a mistake, and predictably, so did AKME. If Billy is being told who to play, and the player is terrible, what are we doing here as a franchise.

One of the primary reasons why my interest in the team is down is because I really don't feel that the organization has any plan or even intent to put a winning product on the floor. So many of the decisions seem to be ego based that you can't apply logic or analysis to the team's plan. There is no point.

In the past, this board would be full of debate on direction of the team. With no direction, there is no debate.

[dougthonus]

With all due respect, he's had 5 years to work on his game. Sure, he's had injuries, but that's still a large portion of 5 years to work and get better.

I refuse to accept that as an excuse (even though I know you're not using it as one)

Sort of apples and oranges to me.

I don't think he will improve his game. I'm talking why I think can get back to how good he was previously whereas now he is worse than he was in previous years.

[League Circles]

IMO it's IMPERATIVE that we keep starting him and playing him significant minutes. If we bench him now you can basically kiss goodbye much of any hope that he'll rehabilitate his trade value. That's the critical thing.

[greenl]

One of the primary reasons why my interest in the team is down is because I really don't feel that the organization has any plan or even intent to put a winning product on the floor. So many of the decisions seem to be ego based that you can't apply logic or analysis to the team's plan. There is no point.

In the past, this board would be full of debate on direction of the team. With no direction, there is no debate.

So much this- the degree to which I am apathetic about the plight of this team is way beyond past years. Unless they luck into a top 3 pick- it's difficult to see a way out this morass or even back to a place where the fan base cares.

Matas intrigues me- Coby and Ayo are nice, complimentary pieces. Beyond that- the Bulls are a big pile of meh.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

In a perfect world where Pat never got injured and played in a great situation for development, I suspect he’d have improved incrementally season over season and become an average 3/4 starter who more than justified this contract.

But he lacks passion for basketball - probably just lacks passion period - so commonplace NBA obstacles are enough to put him in a constant cycle of climbing back to his level of play from the previous season but only getting 90% of the way there.

[SirKaiser]

I never really noticed that he bulked up, but if that's true, I too think this was a mistake. Classic example of the organization trying to shoehorn a player into what they want, rather than what is best for that player.

Have him lose weight, play SF, and atleast use his height to guard smaller forwards. Cut the PF **** out. Matas deserves to start there, with Phillips and Smith backing him up there. Phillips can atleast hustle.

[fleet]

asking athletes to artificially gain weight has rare success imo. Always be as lean as possible, or be at a natural weight for the greatest chance of success. We can talk about linemen in football, and sumo wrestling, but other than that….

[Dan Z]

5 **** year deal for this guy. Smfh. And I felt that way in real time DESPITE being one of his biggest believers (which is still not a huge believer lol).

They should've made him test the market. Having said that ,I never understood why they gave him a player option. What was he going to do if they refused and said it's a team option?

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

asking athletes to gain weight has rare success imo. Always be as lean as possible, or be at a comfortable weight for the greatest chance of success. We can talk about linemen in football, and sumo wrestling, but other than that….

Was he asked to bulk up? I may have missed that. One of his pre-draft flags was that he had a body type that might add weight too easily. I remember Nate Duncan talking about it.

[jordanwilliams6]

Yet another horrendous AKME blunder.

They have absolutely no idea when to cut their losses and move on from their guys. Instead they continually double down and put us in more difficult positions.

Hard pressed to find a more worthless FO than these guys.

[ChiTownHero1992]

IMO it's IMPERATIVE that we keep starting him and playing him significant minutes. If we bench him now you can basically kiss goodbye much of any hope that he'll rehabilitate his trade value. That's the critical thing.

I for the life of me do not understand this reasoning....people have been saying this for 3 years with Zach Lavine and where are we now? Reports that not a single team wants him still....you know why? Because once you've shown something for multiple years in a row, there is NO SUCH THING as "rehabbing your trade value".

Zach Lavine is who he has always been, and teams know that, doesn't matter that he "looks like an all-star again" as many on here keep saying, teams know that he is not worth that contract, not gonna help on defense and take too many shots to be the 3rd option they want. Its the same damn thing with Patrick Williams, he has 0 offense, his "amazing defensive potential" is really just above average defense, his "he's only 23 and oozing with potential still" is nothing more than what it was 4 seasons ago which was zilch and every team knows that, it won't change. Williams isn't going to "rehab has value" it doesn't happen. If he had played this way for a season, maybe 2 tops then sure i could see saying that, but 4.5 years....no we know who he is, and so do the other 29 teams.

[League Circles]

5 **** year deal for this guy. Smfh. And I felt that way in real time DESPITE being one of his biggest believers (which is still not a huge believer lol).

They should've made him test the market. Having said that ,I never understood why they gave him a player option. What was he going to do if they refused and said it's a team option?

Ostensibly he wouldn't have agreed to that exact dollar amount. Not saying he would have, but surely that's what his agent said.

[GoBlue72391]

asking athletes to gain weight has rare success imo. Always be as lean as possible, or be at a comfortable weight for the greatest chance of success. We can talk about linemen in football, and sumo wrestling, but other than that….

Was he asked to bulk up? I may have missed that. One of his pre-draft flags was that he had a body type that might add weight too easily. I remember Nate Duncan talking about it.

I never heard anything about the Bulls wanting him to bulk up, though maybe I missed it. It seems to me that with a lot of injuries and a lot of downtime he just put on some bad weight. Enough to significantly hinder his play.

[League Circles]

IMO it's IMPERATIVE that we keep starting him and playing him significant minutes. If we bench him now you can basically kiss goodbye much of any hope that he'll rehabilitate his trade value. That's the critical thing.

I for the life of me do not understand this reasoning....people have been saying this for 3 years with Zach Lavine and where are we now? Reports that not a single team wants him still....you know why? Because once you've shown something for multiple years in a row, there is NO SUCH THING as "rehabbing your trade value".

Zach Lavine is who has always been, and teams no that, doesn't matter that he "looks like an all-star again" as many on here keep saying, teams no that he is not worth that contract, not gonna help on defense and take too many shots to be the 3rd option they want. Its the same damn thing with Patrick Williams, he has 0 offense, his "amazing defensive potential" is really just above average defense, his "he's only 23 and oozing with potential still" is nothing more than what it was 4 seasons ago which was zilch and every team knows that, it won't change. Williams isn't going to "rehab has value" it doesn't happen. If he had played this way for a season, maybe 2 tops then sure i could see saying that, but 4.5 years....no we know who he is, and so do the other 29 teams.

It's really simple reasoning:

1. Teams offers are in part based on (the minimum) they think the team with the player (us in this case) will accept. If you are openly showing you are down on a player by, for example, benching him a few months into a 5 year deal, they KNOW you want to get rid of him. No matter what you say, they KNOW you want to dump him. If you're starting him and playing him 30 mpg, they don't know that, and it suggests you like the player.
2. More minutes gives a player more opportunity to work out his deficiencies.
3. It's more palatable to a fan base to trade for another team's "starter" than a "bench player on a 5 year 90 mil deal". Yes, of course execs try to eliminate this from their minds in analyzing a player, but IMO, they simply cannot. It's just an aspect of human psychology.

I think his defense is still pretty good. Certainly one of our best few defenders.

Zach is playing his best ball ever. I'm sure teams would like him, but those that would mostly can't trade for him due to the newer CBA rules, and/or don't have anything to offer that we'd want.