Building around Coby-Giddey-Matas

[ScrantonBulls]

Perennial 1st round exit realistically. If Matas and Giddey both become all stars, maybe better. I just think that signing Coby to whatever his next contract will be would be a mistake. I'd prefer if they roll the dice and try to trade him. See if you can get some leas established player(s) with upside.

Great timing

I posted after the game ended. I know you'd be ecstatic with a perennial 8th seeded team though. You'd prefer that to rolling the dice for something more.

[Guru]

Perennial 1st round exit realistically. If Matas and Giddey both become all stars, maybe better. I just think that signing Coby to whatever his next contract will be would be a mistake. I'd prefer if they roll the dice and try to trade him. See if you can get some leas established player(s) with upside.

Great timing

I posted after the game ended. I know you'd be ecstatic with a perennial 8th seeded team though. You'd prefer that to rolling the dice for something more.

Incredible ending to a bulls game....I need to go online and tell strangers why this is actually bad.....

[jordanwilliams6]

Perennial 1st round exit realistically. If Matas and Giddey both become all stars, maybe better. I just think that signing Coby to whatever his next contract will be would be a mistake. I'd prefer if they roll the dice and try to trade him. See if you can get some leas established player(s) with upside.

Great timing

I posted after the game ended. I know you'd be ecstatic with a perennial 8th seeded team though. You'd prefer that to rolling the dice for something more.

How do we know what the ceiling of this team will be? These 3 guys are 25, 22 & 20 so they are clearly showing that they are developing into better players.

Keep in mind that they are 9-2 in the last 11 with several wins against playoff calibre teams.

[ScrantonBulls]

Great timing

I posted after the game ended. I know you'd be ecstatic with a perennial 8th seeded team though. You'd prefer that to rolling the dice for something more.

Incredible ending to a bulls game....I need to go online and tell strangers why this is actually bad.....

"Somebody on the internet had a take that I don't agree with. I'm going to cry about it in response."

[ScrantonBulls]

Great timing

I posted after the game ended. I know you'd be ecstatic with a perennial 8th seeded team though. You'd prefer that to rolling the dice for something more.

How do we know what the ceiling of this team will be? These 3 guys are 25, 22 & 20 so they are clearly showing that they are developing into better players.

Keep in mind that they are 9-2 in the last 11 with several wins against playoff calibre teams.

I don't think a team with Coby and Giddey as their best and highest paid players will be a true championship contender. Obviously things can change, but I dont think they'll be true contenders. Like I said, I'd prefer they explore trade opportunities for Coby instead of giving him a huge contact.

[bullskokie]

You have got to include Pat now because after tonight you will understand my patience… Finally, the Paw is here!!

[NecessaryEvil]

They are definitely the core and still ascending

[MGB8]

Yeah a reliably available Lonzo Ball is pretty much the ideal 4th non-center starter, for a lot of teams. That's part of why we were so accommodating with his recovery.

At center, hopefully Maluach drops to wherever we're picking.

Is he quick enough, though?

[WesPeace]

Start next season with all of them ;
Giddey, White, Huerter, Buzelis, Smith/Collins

I like the chemistry, ball movement between these starters, would keep Huerter in starting lineup.
Giddey probably gets something between 25-30M per season.

Bench :
Re-signed Jones (9M per/2yrs), Ball, Ayo, PWill, Terry, Phillips, Smith/Collins
Add draft pick, thats 13 solid guys for rotation already.

Health will be issue with Ball probably all the way, he is sadly Mr.Glass, so I would keep all guards for now and Jones. Thru the year and closing into trade deadline they decide how to proceed.

Remove Vucevic and Carter, thats my wishes,
THE REST will sort out on its own..

Bottom bench guys can be : 2way deals like Liddell, Young

[Dominator83]

I'm just going to say: please have these guys show up in October, before you call them the core.

They're playing very well right now, and it's a significantly better style of play than yesteryears... But this would not be the first time in NBA history (particularly post-MJ Bulls era) where young guys catch some crazy heat in March and fall right back to earth after the off-season, when the whole league is prepared to win games and not tank away.

Giddey is shooting over 50% from the arc since Feb-2. Bless the fella if it continues, but... TRADITIONALLY, all such freak highs fall back to earth (especially after big contract extensions). Utah Lauri and Super Niko, amongst others.

Yea a cautionary tale would be 2003. The 3 C's all finished the year strong and looked like they were starting something good. Then fell right back to being awful in 03-04.

[Chi town]

Coby talks about how him and Giddey have gotten close off the court and helped them a lot on the court. Their families have met and connected.

Sounds like some serious chemistry is happening with the core.

https://youtu.be/en9M1nz9Mmc?si=x52vKdnCJ_T-CfKx

[Tetlak]

You say Coby is a "1" defensively, but he's not ideal at being a POA defender. To me, you need somebody who is versatile enough to be a POA defender but also a wing stopper. That's why despite how well Tre Jones has played for us, I don't see him as a great fit moving forward unless it's as a backup. He can navigate a screen, but he's too small to switch onto anybody.

At the 5, we need a better version of Collins/Smith. Somebody who can finish inside, shoot 3s, but also play good defense. A Myles Turner type, although he can br a bit soft inside. Those guys are hard to find.

[leo921]

I know it would take some sign and trade work but if we are going with a Giddy/Coby/Matas core then a trade for Turner would be perfect.
A lineup of Ball/White/Giddy/Matas/Turner would be a great blend of shooting, defense, can play uptempo or halfcourt.

Something like
Collins/Huerter/Smith/Port 1st for Turner/Mathurin

Collins/Huerter are expiring and solid players giving Pacers depth and flexibility, Indy likes Smith and would welcome him back.
Turner does a sign and trade for 4 years/30m per, I like Mathurin think he has a ton of potential and the Bulls need good wings.
End up deeper and more talented with something like Ball/White/Giddy/Matas/Turner and a great bench of Ayo/Mathurin/Phillips/Williams/Vuc.
For those who would complain about Vuc off bench he is not our future and is on an expiring contract, if we cant deal him then he goes
to the bench in favor of Turner

[rosenthall]

It's premature to lump Matas in with Coby and Giddey right now.

The latter two are playing like legit all-stars, although it remains to be seen if they can maintain it over an entire season. Matas doesn't have much to do with our recent surge in good play.

Matas is having a decent season, but he hasn't exactly broken out. During our hot stretch he's averaging 12.5 / 4 / 1 / 1. Not bad, but those are basically Patrick Williams numbers. I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sure if you should count on him to be more than a Wendell Carter type prospect.

[WesPeace]

It's premature to lump Matas in with Coby and Giddey right now.

The latter two are playing like legit all-stars, although it remains to be seen if they can maintain it over an entire season. Matas doesn't have much to do with our recent surge in good play.

Matas is having a decent season, but he hasn't exactly broken out. During our hot stretch he's averaging 12.5 / 4 / 1 / 1. Not bad, but those are basically Patrick Williams numbers. I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sure if you should count on him to be more than a Wendell Carter type prospect.

He isnt exactly playing starters minutes yet and he is a rookie for god sake.. he has shown much more skill, dog mentality, BBIQ than Carter ever will

[sco]

It's premature to lump Matas in with Coby and Giddey right now.

The latter two are playing like legit all-stars, although it remains to be seen if they can maintain it over an entire season. Matas doesn't have much to do with our recent surge in good play.

Matas is having a decent season, but he hasn't exactly broken out. During our hot stretch he's averaging 12.5 / 4 / 1 / 1. Not bad, but those are basically Patrick Williams numbers. I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sure if you should count on him to be more than a Wendell Carter type prospect.

He isnt exactly playing starters minutes yet and he is a rookie for god sake.. he has shown much more skill, dog mentality, BBIQ than Carter ever will

And the key point is that he has flashed enough potential (yuck I hate that word) to think that he is a core part of the Bulls future.

Back on the OP, the interesting question about "building around" those 3 is what do you need? I think it's fair to think that they can be our top 3 scoring options (maybe after next season for Matas). Adding another "scorer", especially a high-priced one, brings the risk of there being not enough shots to go around, coupled with a potential reversion to the lack of aggressiveness out of Giddey/Coby like we saw to start the season, and I want Matas to want to take more, not fewer, shots going forward. Maybe we could use a good 6th man...I'm thinking an older vet...heck, I'm hoping that Vuc, if we're stuck with him next season, gracefully slides into that role. I wouldn't hate Carter in that role if we are stuck with him next season. The rest of what we need are great defenders who are efficient low-volume scorers.

[rosenthall]

It's premature to lump Matas in with Coby and Giddey right now.

The latter two are playing like legit all-stars, although it remains to be seen if they can maintain it over an entire season. Matas doesn't have much to do with our recent surge in good play.

Matas is having a decent season, but he hasn't exactly broken out. During our hot stretch he's averaging 12.5 / 4 / 1 / 1. Not bad, but those are basically Patrick Williams numbers. I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sure if you should count on him to be more than a Wendell Carter type prospect.

He isnt exactly playing starters minutes yet and he is a rookie for god sake.. he has shown much more skill, dog mentality, BBIQ than Carter ever will

He is a rookie, but you can't project him as a core piece based off of his rookie year IMO. He could become one, but he'd have to improve significantly from what he does right now. I can see it happening, but it's not a shoe-in. I think it's very possible he ends up about where Wendell Carter Jr is at, not including injuries.

In terms of tier and projection, they are very similar prospects. Carter Jr was picked higher in a better draft, had a better rookie year (not accounting for injuries), and had lots of fan boys on this board when he joined the team. They had the same RSCI ranking coming out of high school They were both known for being well rounded prospects on both sides of the ball with good floors as two-way players but lacking the ceilings of true superstars. It's not misleading to compare them in terms of career projection and calibre of player.

[sco]

It's premature to lump Matas in with Coby and Giddey right now.

The latter two are playing like legit all-stars, although it remains to be seen if they can maintain it over an entire season. Matas doesn't have much to do with our recent surge in good play.

Matas is having a decent season, but he hasn't exactly broken out. During our hot stretch he's averaging 12.5 / 4 / 1 / 1. Not bad, but those are basically Patrick Williams numbers. I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sure if you should count on him to be more than a Wendell Carter type prospect.

He isnt exactly playing starters minutes yet and he is a rookie for god sake.. he has shown much more skill, dog mentality, BBIQ than Carter ever will

He is a rookie, but you can't project him as a core piece based off of his rookie year IMO. He could become one, but he'd have to improve significantly from what he does right now. I can see it happening, but it's not a shoe-in. I think it's very possible he ends up about where Wendell Carter Jr is at, not including injuries.

In terms of tier and projection, they are very similar prospects. Carter Jr was picked higher in a better draft, had a better rookie year (not accounting for injuries), and had lots of fan boys on this board when he joined the team. They had the same RSCI ranking coming out of high school They were both known for being well rounded prospects on both sides of the ball with good floors as two-way players but lacking the ceilings of true superstars. It's not misleading to compare them in terms of career projection and calibre of player.

You're right to not assume that Matas "gets there"...we've been burned before by promising rookie seasons. I will say what I look for from rookies are flashes of great play, where you say, "wow, if he could do that all the time, he'll be a star". I think I've seen the most flashes from Matas that I've seen since DRose, but I admit to being biased - I probably said similar things about Lauri, Pat and Wendell, and ironically, I don't remember seeing many from Coby.

[jump]

I totally disagree on similarities between Carter and Matas. I read your stats, but they don't sway my observations. Carter came here and instantly wanted to switch positions to PF instead of C. Even his mother chimed in on that. He always seemed to feel like he didn't fit on the team. His head was down, he was often discouraged (judging by his body language). Matas is the opposite. He wants to be coached, he's assertive (50 dunks already this season), he has drive (and kick and 3ball and handles, lol). He is committed to be an outstanding player. That alone bodes well for his development and our future. He demonstrated his full potential just last week against the Lakers in L.A. He had 31 points and 5 for 10 on 3s. Carter has already peaked. The sky's the limit on Matas.

[sco]

I totally disagree on similarities between Carter and Matas. I read your stats, but they don't sway my observations. Carter came here and instantly wanted to switch positions to PF instead of C. Even his mother chimed in on that. He always seemed to feel like he didn't fit on the team. His head was down, he was often discouraged (judging by his body language). Matas is the opposite. He wants to be coached, he's assertive (50 dunks already this season), he has drive (and kick and 3ball and handles, lol). He is committed to be an outstanding player. That alone bodes well for his development and our future. He demonstrated his full potential just last week against the Lakers in L.A. He had 31 points and 5 for 10 on 3s. Carter has already peaked. The sky's the limit on Matas.

Ironically, I think that Carter was right. His game seemed to fall off when he bulked up to play C and he lost the quickness that I appreciated in him in college.