Buy Low Candidate?

[jnrjr79]

Crazy story. Absolutely preposterous context of allegations but still might be true. But yeah he'll have lowered value now to N.O. or a trade recipient, fair or not.

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

Pretty strong response from Zion's team:

Statement: “We take these allegations with the utmost seriousness, and we unequivocally deny them. The allegations contained in the complaint are categorically false and reckless. This is the plaintiff’s third set of attorneys. This appears to be an attempt to exploit a professional athlete driven by a financial motive rather than any legitimate grievance.

Mr. Williamson and the plaintiff never dated, but did maintain a consensual, casual relationship that began more than six years ago, when he was 18 years old. That relationship ended years ago. At no point during or immediately after that relationship did the plaintiff raise any concerns. Only after the friendship ended did she begin demanding millions of dollars.

Mr. Williamson reported the plaintiff’s extortion attempts to law enforcement. We understand that an arrest warrant was issued in connection with that report, and we are prepared to provide the court with documentation that supports these facts.

Mr. Williamson also intends to file counterclaims and seek significant damages for this defamatory lawsuit. While these allegations are false, we recognize the seriousness of the claims and welcome the opportunity to prove the truth in court. We are confident that the legal process will expose the truth and fully vindicate Mr. Williamson.”

The thing that catches my eye here is "her third set of attorneys." That would be pretty revealing, IMO.

[Dan Z]

I wonder if either side would be open to a Coby-Reed deal.

Houston to me, would have to throw in a sweetener. Maybe their 10th and we throw in our 2nd rounder?

I mean if Reed and 10 was available for Coby, I'm packing his bags and I'm one of the few people here that think people are underrating Coby. Even 10 by itself for Coby is something I would do.

There's no reason for Houston to trade Reed and the 10th for Coby. Yes, Coby is the better player right now, but Reed still has potential and he's on his rookie deal. Houston is a good team with or without Reed and can continue to develop him.

Coby would add scoring to their team, but in a year they'd have to re-sign him. FVV too (he currently has a team option for next year). I'm not sure about the rest of the salaries on their team.

[League Circles]

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

If anything I think this makes it more likely he stays with NO long term. IMO the overwhelming likelihood is that it can never be conclusively determined how true or false the allegations are. Worth noting there is no criminal complaint, and the civil suit claims that the woman was repeatedly raped across several years and in several states. To me that's highly, highly eyebrow raising to say the least.

I obviously have no direct knowledge of it, but based on the news reports, I do not find anything "eyebrow raising" about it. It seems like a perfectly "normal" violent/abusive relationship fact pattern. But if she does not pursue criminal prosecution and just pursues the civil suit, I do sometimes find that scenario less credible.

There aren't criminal charges yet, but I don't think we know whether or not she has contacted law enforcement. And an investigation may result from the civil suit, so then you'd be monitoring to see whether she cooperates.

New Orleans could cut him right now, AFAIK, because he didn't hit the games-played threshold to guarantee his contract. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

There's nothing remotely normal about getting raped numerous times over a span of years and across multiple states, and deciding that only the money (civil) aspect is important to the alleged victim years later, while the public safety element (criminal) is of no concern. We would 100% have heard if there was a criminal complaint.

Extremely eyebrow raising that, allegedly, the woman didn't contact law enforcement (or if she did they declined to investigate or press charges), but Zion immediately did AND an arrest warrant dor extortion has been issued.

Again, nothing is definitive, but this is not normal and should not be acceptable in society (to sue for millions in the lower legal threshold in a civil case while not even contacting L.E. or having them pursue a criminal case IMO).

[ChettheJet]

I've advocated for the buy low path, finding guys that the Bulls had rated high in whatever year they were in the draft, even if they were out ofreach and look at the limited NBA sample they've shown and form an opinion as to are they held back by more win now players or was the draft evaluation wrong.

One problem is so many teams have excess at the 2, 3 and 4 and the Bulls have an abundance at the 1 and 2. Lonzo can play next to Giddey, White or Huerter so how many guards can they look at?

They need to decide if Matas is a 3 or 4 so they can make a list of who they might want at the other slot. Right now I see them keeping Coby for this year to see what he does. People dismiss Huerter as just an expiring when I see somebody who can shoot, takes care of the ball, has a high BB IQ. puts in the effort on defense and I'd extend or resign to mesh nicely next to Giddey long term. I'd like to see what Tre Jones and his people are thinking because he's a small pure PG are there any teams that are really in need with any money to spend. The Bulls could be a solid option for him. I like those two guys because they aren't kids, they don't need to grow into an NBA body or learn the pro game like a lot of other younger buy low guys.

One thing that makes me want to throttle a lot of Bulls fans is the beyond pessimism to surrender that no Bulls players are ever looked at as being capable of improving. While at the same time anybody on another team who has done much is always looked at to blossom to stardom once they get more playing in CHI.

Prime with that is Patrick Williams, I'd like to see him spend a healthy off season NOT working out with Demar DeRozan and working on his game and not hero worshiping because he doesn't need to learn how to look for Demar in his mid range spot anymore. I'd like to see him spend more time in Chicago working with the coaches who know what role he is expected to fill.

That said I'm more than ready to move on from Dalen Terry. Besides hustle and speed you really can't identify any part of the game he really stands out in. Not a consistent shooter, ball handler, still commits silly fouls. You gave him a shot, didn't work out don't keep going down the same path

[Red Larrivee]

So on top of having to wonder if he legitimately likes playing basketball these days, you also have to wonder whether Zion is an abuser.

And people still want him?

[Dan Z]

So on top of having to wonder if he legitimately likes playing basketball these days, you also have to wonder whether Zion is an abuser.

And people still want him?

I think it's more that people are hoping for a miracle to get this team out of the position they're in (not a playoff team, play-in or 1st round at best, etc).

For the record I never had interest in trading for him.

[Muzbar]

My number 1 buy low candidate is still Benedict Mathurin, but his last 2 games he's played very well for the Pacers. Either way, he may not want to be relegated to a bench role and may want a change of scenery.

[Chi town]

If anything I think this makes it more likely he stays with NO long term. IMO the overwhelming likelihood is that it can never be conclusively determined how true or false the allegations are. Worth noting there is no criminal complaint, and the civil suit claims that the woman was repeatedly raped across several years and in several states. To me that's highly, highly eyebrow raising to say the least.

I obviously have no direct knowledge of it, but based on the news reports, I do not find anything "eyebrow raising" about it. It seems like a perfectly "normal" violent/abusive relationship fact pattern. But if she does not pursue criminal prosecution and just pursues the civil suit, I do sometimes find that scenario less credible.

There aren't criminal charges yet, but I don't think we know whether or not she has contacted law enforcement. And an investigation may result from the civil suit, so then you'd be monitoring to see whether she cooperates.

New Orleans could cut him right now, AFAIK, because he didn't hit the games-played threshold to guarantee his contract. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

There's nothing remotely normal about getting raped numerous times over a span of years and across multiple states, and deciding that only the money (civil) aspect is important to the alleged victim years later, while the public safety element (criminal) is of no concern. We would 100% have heard if there was a criminal complaint.

Extremely eyebrow raising that, allegedly, the woman didn't contact law enforcement (or if she did they declined to investigate or press charges), but Zion immediately did AND an arrest warrant dor extortion has been issued.

Again, nothing is definitive, but this is not normal and should not be acceptable in society (to sue for millions in the lower legal threshold in a civil case while not even contacting L.E. or having them pursue a criminal case IMO).

Exactly this feels very similar to the Terrence Shannon case that was completely false and a shake down.

What needs to happen is the people that are reporting these claims that prove to be false need to do time. Nothing seems to happen to them whereas the accused proven innocent takes a major hit in public perception and can cost them big money. Zion going to take a pay cut when it’s all said and done. It also has to drain them emotionally and I’m sure that doesn’t help their performance on the court.

Now, if true Zion should absolutely be behind bars but like you said there was nothing even reported as criminal now years later as civil for money.

[Axl Rose]

So on top of having to wonder if he legitimately likes playing basketball these days, you also have to wonder whether Zion is an abuser.

And people still want him?

I think it's more that people are hoping for a miracle to get this team out of the position they're in (not a playoff team, play-in or 1st round at best, etc).

For the record I never had interest in trading for him.

The miracle would be Zion playing more than 35 games.

[Almost Retired]

If I were AK I would call Brooklyn and see if they would swap #12 and #45 for their #19 and #26. Unless they plan to package some of their picks this year to make a run at Giannis they have too many picks to work into their roster in one year. At #19 I'd grab Rasheer Fleming for the "4" and the best remaining Center with #26. Wolf, Beringer, Raynaud, Kalbrenner, and Zikarsky should be available there.

[Jcool0]

If I were AK I would call Brooklyn and see if they would swap #12 and #45 for their #19 and #26. Unless they plan to package some of their picks this year to make a run at Giannis they have too many picks to work into their roster in one year. At #19 I'd grab Rasheer Fleming for the "4" and the best remaining Center with #26. Wolf, Beringer, Raynaud, Kalbrenner, and Zikarsky should be available there.

I don't understand people who want to trade back. You will be lucky if 19 & 26 become rotational players for Chicago. Let alone anything meaningful. Remember Dalen Terry was taken 18th and he is barely hanging on in the NBA.

[sco]

If I were AK I would call Brooklyn and see if they would swap #12 and #45 for their #19 and #26. Unless they plan to package some of their picks this year to make a run at Giannis they have too many picks to work into their roster in one year. At #19 I'd grab Rasheer Fleming for the "4" and the best remaining Center with #26. Wolf, Beringer, Raynaud, Kalbrenner, and Zikarsky should be available there.

I don't understand people who want to trade back. You will be lucky if 19 & 26 become rotational players for Chicago. Let alone anything meaningful. Remember Dalen Terry was taken 18th and he is barely hanging on in the NBA.

I get it this year. Nobody below 4 seems much more than a role player, but it feels like you can get the same quality guy at 26 as you can at 12.

[DuckIII]

If there's anything to this, I think the question is whether the Pellies cut him, rather than whether his trade value has taken a hit. Zion is radioactive now and that's probably not going to change unless teams start investigating and concluding this is all being fabricated.

Pretty strong response from Zion's team:

Statement: “We take these allegations with the utmost seriousness, and we unequivocally deny them. The allegations contained in the complaint are categorically false and reckless. This is the plaintiff’s third set of attorneys. This appears to be an attempt to exploit a professional athlete driven by a financial motive rather than any legitimate grievance.

Mr. Williamson and the plaintiff never dated, but did maintain a consensual, casual relationship that began more than six years ago, when he was 18 years old. That relationship ended years ago. At no point during or immediately after that relationship did the plaintiff raise any concerns. Only after the friendship ended did she begin demanding millions of dollars.

Mr. Williamson reported the plaintiff’s extortion attempts to law enforcement. We understand that an arrest warrant was issued in connection with that report, and we are prepared to provide the court with documentation that supports these facts.

Mr. Williamson also intends to file counterclaims and seek significant damages for this defamatory lawsuit. While these allegations are false, we recognize the seriousness of the claims and welcome the opportunity to prove the truth in court. We are confident that the legal process will expose the truth and fully vindicate Mr. Williamson.”

The thing that catches my eye here is "her third set of attorneys." That would be pretty revealing, IMO.

Always a bad sign. I wrote the following shortly after reading the first article I saw about it and the more I have read since the less credible I find it.

To put it kindly, at first blush this lawsuit doesn’t smell right. She alleges she dated him for 5 years starting in 2018, stopped seeing him in 2023, but he raped her twice in 2020. So she’s suing him for rapes that allegedly occurred 5 years ago, and 3 years before their relationship ended. Tough case is an understatement.

With that basic structure she is beginning her PR position from very deep hole. She’ll have to have some serious evidence to back it up. Otherwise it looks like a bitter ex-girlfriend who never got a legal hook in him to keep getting money, and is using the lawsuit as a replacement.

We’ll see. Sometimes these things look one way and go another. I think it’s a bit of a red flag that in the complaint they go out of their way to say that after both alleged rapes he either destroyed her phone or took it away. Seems a preemptive way of saying it’s Zion’s Fault there will be zero record of her ever telling anyone about it.

[DuckIII]

If I were AK I would call Brooklyn and see if they would swap #12 and #45 for their #19 and #26. Unless they plan to package some of their picks this year to make a run at Giannis they have too many picks to work into their roster in one year. At #19 I'd grab Rasheer Fleming for the "4" and the best remaining Center with #26. Wolf, Beringer, Raynaud, Kalbrenner, and Zikarsky should be available there.

I don't understand people who want to trade back. You will be lucky if 19 & 26 become rotational players for Chicago. Let alone anything meaningful. Remember Dalen Terry was taken 18th and he is barely hanging on in the NBA.

I get it this year. Nobody below 4 seems much more than a role player, but it feels like you can get the same quality guy at 26 as you can at 12.

That’s basically never true and isn’t true this year either. It’s of course possible to get a better or equal guy at 19 or 26 that you can get at 12 but it’s extremely unlikely due to the fact that you have to pick the right guy.

I think it’s an absolutely terrible idea in general, and especially in our situation where we have zero franchise players. We have to maximize the potential of our draft swings every time and that means, using statistical likelihoods, drafting as high as possible.

I consider it to be such a bad idea that the only reason I believe it’s even possible is because Mr. “You can win titles with 9 good players” is our GM.

[WindyCityBorn]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

I hope you are joking.

[RSP83]

I'm interested in Jaime Jacquez's availability. He got banished from the Heat's rotation this year, and I'm not sure why. But he looked like he had a path to being a quality starter his rookie year. Looking at the Heat roster, I find it difficult to find a trade that makes sense, so I'm not sure he's all that attainable for us.

I think we really have to hope that Portland makes a leap this year so their pick becomes a more valuable trade piece.

I also like Jacquez. But also be careful with Heat players. They usually flop after they move to another team.

[CROBulls]

Zion, after rape charges. Get that man to Chicago.

I hope you are joking.

Never being more serious.

[Almost Retired]

I don't understand people who want to trade back. You will be lucky if 19 & 26 become rotational players for Chicago. Let alone anything meaningful. Remember Dalen Terry was taken 18th and he is barely hanging on in the NBA.

I get it this year. Nobody below 4 seems much more than a role player, but it feels like you can get the same quality guy at 26 as you can at 12.

That’s basically never true and isn’t true this year either. It’s of course possible to get a better or equal guy at 19 or 26 that you can get at 12 but it’s extremely unlikely due to the fact that you have to pick the right guy.

I think it’s an absolutely terrible idea in general, and especially in our situation where we have zero franchise players. We have to maximize the potential of our draft swings every time and that means, using statistical likelihoods, drafting as high as possible.

I consider it to be such a bad idea that the only reason I believe it’s even possible is because Mr. “You can win titles with 9 good players” is our GM.

OK. So who would you draft at #12 that you guarantee will be better than Rasheer Fleming who we can probably get with the 19th pick? And Fleming fills a position of great need, a "4" with a freakish wingspan that can defend 4 positions and kill you with corner "3s" ?

[Jcool0]

I get it this year. Nobody below 4 seems much more than a role player, but it feels like you can get the same quality guy at 26 as you can at 12.

That’s basically never true and isn’t true this year either. It’s of course possible to get a better or equal guy at 19 or 26 that you can get at 12 but it’s extremely unlikely due to the fact that you have to pick the right guy.

I think it’s an absolutely terrible idea in general, and especially in our situation where we have zero franchise players. We have to maximize the potential of our draft swings every time and that means, using statistical likelihoods, drafting as high as possible.

I consider it to be such a bad idea that the only reason I believe it’s even possible is because Mr. “You can win titles with 9 good players” is our GM.

OK. So who would you draft at #12 that you guarantee will be better than Rasheer Fleming who we can probably get with the 19th pick? And Fleming fills a position of great need, a "4" with a freakish wingspan that can defend 4 positions and kill you with corner "3s" ?

Asa Newell
Egor Demin
Noa Essengue
Collin Murray-Boyles
Kasparas Jakucionis
Derik Queen

[The Box Office]

Reed Sheppard.
Manthurin.
What about Ja Morant?

Please do not trade for Zion. Absolutely not. He's awful.