Do you trust Ben Gordon with the last shot to win the game?

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliffy, even though he was taller, Reggie Miller made a living coming off screens and hitting even at clutch time when you knew it was coming.

Reggie Miller is not Ben Gordon, and that height made a big difference in being able to get the shot off without having to fade away/adjust the shot to get it off. Reggie also couldn't create his own shot off the dribble.

Gordon is one of the best outside shooters in the league. I cringe when he's going one on one at the end of quarters because he has routinely lost the ball, had it poked away(by a center in aldridge), outright stolen or just turned it over by a carry, charge or something else like bouncing it off his leg.

He had the ball poked away from Aldridge because the Ben Wallace pick and sh*t-all-over-the-floor brought Aldridge to Gordon. That's the whole theme of Cliff Levingston's post; give him room to operate. Of course Ben will turn it over from time to time; every single player in the NBA does including Kobe, Wade, TMac, etc. However, since Gordon is our best clutch scorer, we might as well give him the best chance to succeed... and that doesn't include running him off screens.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-


He had the ball poked away from Aldridge because the Ben Wallace pick and sh*t-all-over-the-floor brought Aldridge to Gordon. That's the whole theme of Cliff Levingston's post; give him room to operate. Of course Ben will turn it over from time to time; every single player in the NBA does including Kobe, Wade, TMac, etc. However, since Gordon is our best clutch scorer, we might as well give him the best chance to succeed... and that doesn't include running him off screens.

my point being... a big man knocked away the ball on a one on one situation against Gordon.

1. I haven't seen too many PF/C do that to a guard out on the wing.
2. A big man went for the ball because hey... what's going to happen, is Gordon going to take it to the rack if he misses and gets out of position?

Never mind last year watching Gordon trying to hold for the last shot and having McGrady rip it from him and go the length of the court for an uncontested 2 before halftime or the numerous other times he's had the ball poked away. That should never happen ESPECIALLY a big defending a guard.

[AirP.]

I'll give you Gordon's our best one on one player, it doesn't mean he's a good option at that point in the game, just possibly our best option. I will lay this problem at the feet of Paxson though.

Maybe they figured on Gordon developing more then he has, that's the only thing I can possibly think of with not going after an offensive guard with the last 2 lottery picks and then drafting a defensive guard in the first round.

Gordon's a good offensive player but he's not a good #1 option for a team, we have zero #1 option players and we need one in the worst way so it takes off the burden off everyone else.

[Cliff Levingston]

my point being... a big man knocked away the ball on a one on one situation against Gordon.

1. I haven't seen too many PF/C do that to a guard out on the wing.
2. A big man went for the ball because hey... what's going to happen, is Gordon going to take it to the rack if he misses and gets out of position?

Never mind last year watching Gordon trying to hold for the last shot and having McGrady rip it from him and go the length of the court for an uncontested 2 before halftime or the numerous other times he's had the ball poked away. That should never happen ESPECIALLY a big defending a guard.

Agreed, but he's also won games with his heroics too. The bottom line is that he's the best we've got, so we might as well do all we can to maximize his ability to win games for us in the clutch; something we're doing the exact opposite of.

What's your alternative to what we're currently doing?

[bullzman23]

Reggie couldn't create though.

Ben is the type of guy that's at his best when he's dribbling the ball with a lil' attitude. He needs the ball in his hands more.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-


Agreed, but he's also won games with his heroics too. The bottom line is that he's the best we've got, so we might as well do all we can to maximize his ability to win games for us in the clutch; something we're doing the exact opposite of.

What's your alternative to what we're currently doing?

First thing I'd do, scrap this stupid offense and put a more motion oriented offense in. We have good passers at nearly every position but we don't run an offense that allows us to utilize that passing ability.

I honestly think, if Wallace went down with a major injury, after a week of adjustment our team would be better with Smith, Tyrus, Noah and Gray playing the 4/5 instead of Wallace in there 35+ minutes. So with that, I may be ready to move Wallace to nearly any team that could bring in depth at the SG/PG position that we could use. Even as bad as Larry Hughes has been, I think even a straight up trade for Wallace would make the Bulls a better team but... it probably would make Cleveland much better since they have legit other scoring options.

[bullzman23]

-= original quote snipped =-



First thing I'd do, scrap this stupid offense and put a more motion oriented offense in. We have good passers at nearly every position but we don't run an offense that allows us to utilize that passing ability.

I don't know about that. I consider Deng, Noce, Gordon, and Hinrich below average at their positions.

[Cliff Levingston]

First thing I'd do, scrap this stupid offense and put a more motion oriented offense in. We have good passers at nearly every position but we don't run an offense that allows us to utilize that passing ability.

I honestly think, if Wallace went down with a major injury, after a week of adjustment our team would be better with Smith, Tyrus, Noah and Gray playing the 4/5 instead of Wallace in there 35+ minutes. So with that, I may be ready to move Wallace to nearly any team that could bring in depth at the SG/PG position that we could use. Even as bad as Larry Hughes has been, I think even a straight up trade for Wallace would make the Bulls a better team but... it probably would make Cleveland much better since they have legit other scoring options.

Well all the above goes without saying. Cliff Levingston meant what would you do with regard to the closer situation. Keep doing what we're doing with Gordon, try something else (like Cliff suggests) or maybe go to Deng?

[BULLHITTER]

shot, yes.....play....no.

[The Evidence]

To me, these stats scream that we need to go out and get a legit scorer. Trading away Gordon for another scorer is just a lateral move.

[Cliff Levingston]

(picture)

To me, these stats scream that we need to go out and get a legit scorer. Trading away Gordon for another scorer is just a lateral move.

Cliff Levingston's ideal scenario has Gordon at the 1 alongside a guy about 6'6" who can slash and finish at the rim; that would really help to maximize Gordon's shooting ability.

[ATRAIN53]

Gordon himself is not the problem. The problem is that he's the ONLY weapon the Bulls have so he is easy to shut down

shot, yes.....play....no.

and i'd add that if he could dunk he'd be a regular All-Star and probably a future HOF player.

he's open the momment he steps into the gym.

[AirP.]

-= original quote snipped =-


Well all the above goes without saying. Cliff Levingston meant what would you do with regard to the closer situation. Keep doing what we're doing with Gordon, try something else (like Cliff suggests) or maybe go to Deng?

How about a simple pick and roll with Gordon and your pick of Deng or Smith from the wing? I'd also have spacing with the other Smith or Deng looking for a midrange catch and shoot, Nocioni in the corner for spacing and possibly Tyrus out there looking for an alley oop to either keep the defense from cheating. Gordon wants help, there it is, he gets to be the decision maker instead of the one on one by himself. Let Hinrich or Duhon handle the dribbling till you're 5 seconds away from running the play and make Gordon go and get the ball.

I keep Wallace off the court at all costs, if he wants to bitch just point at all the layups he's missed and his FT percentage. If he's not man enough to accept his shortcomings when it comes to contributing to this team screw him.

[Cliff Levingston]

How about a simple pick and roll with Gordon and your pick of Deng or Smith from the wing? I'd also have spacing with the other Smith or Deng looking for a midrange catch and shoot, Nocioni in the corner for spacing and possibly Tyrus out there looking for an alley oop to either keep the defense from cheating. Gordon wants help, there it is, he gets to be the decision maker instead of the one on one by himself. Let Hinrich or Duhon handle the dribbling till you're 5 seconds away from running the play and make Gordon go and get the ball.

You're still doing the defense a favor in bringing the double team to Gordon for them, even if you do have a better offensive option right there to pass to. The defense can quite easily double off onto Gordon and force him to make a pass. From that position, Gordon has shown that he can't consistently make a quick decision and be able to get the ball to Smith/Deng or anyone else in scoring position, that is, if he doesn't turn it over due to the pressure.

Even if he does get it to someone else quickly, you've essentially helped the defense get the ball out of your best clutch scorers hands, which is exactly what you don't want (ideally).

[suckfish]

How about a simple pick and roll with Gordon and your pick of Deng or Smith from the wing?

Thats something I would like to see. The pick and roll should only be used with a picker/roller who has some offensive skill, Smith, Deng are ideal.

In regards to clutch or end of game situations I think having the ball go through Deng primarily is an option. He doesn't exactly have to shoot the ball all the time, just have it go through him on a mid wing or low block post up, that takes focus of off Gordon. If Deng can't score hopefully he will have a lot of defensive attention being put on him leaving Gordon a little more free, have him ready for the kick out.. Then Gordon can look to break down his man on his own or Deng could set a pick if Gordon can't create separation.

I think we need to see more of a Gordon/Deng two man game.

[BULLHITTER]

and i'd add that if he could dunk he'd be a regular All-Star and probably a future HOF player.

dunking is your criteria for regular all-star and HOF?


6 foot players rarely if ever dunk in traffic; gordon's done it but because of the degree of difficulty, i'd be happier if he drew fouls and got to the line, which could improve his numbers dramatically more than "dunking".....

regular dunking attempts will get him (and most 6 foot guards) prone on a hospital gurney.

[girlygirl]

-= original quote snipped =-


Cliff Levingston's ideal scenario has Gordon at the 1 alongside a guy about 6'6" who can slash and finish at the rim; that would really help to maximize Gordon's shooting ability.

Who is this ideal player? I can only think of a handful of guys in the NBA who would fit this ideal, and none of them are on the trade block as far as I know.

That's the big problem...the type of players the Bulls need the most are rarely available in trades. And I don't know if this fan base is patient enough to try and develop yet another young player that they might draft to fill this hole -- or if the Bulls coaches/management even understand how to best develop potential star players.

[newskoolbulls]

Given taht everyone knows Ben is going to get the ball and double him I still want him with the ball because everyone you cant trust. Really look at Noc, he doesnt even pump fake. His last second shots are always blocked, and his release is as slow as my bowel movements.

[DaBulls82]

-= original quote snipped =-
Cliff Levingston's ideal scenario has Gordon at the 1 alongside a guy about 6'6" who can slash and finish at the rim; that would really help to maximize Gordon's shooting ability.

Corey Maggette fits that description.

[kobebull]

I don't trust Ben like I would trust a true superstar, say LeBron, Kobe or T-MAC, because he isn't at that level. But he's the best we got, and if you're always going to your best for the game winner, being predictable is an understatement.
This team used to win by ball movement and relying on team mates. Now, not so much.

So use Ben as a decoy already. Surely someone like Gray or Noah can be left unattended near the basket while they focus on BG. Do that a few times and take some of the pressure off Ben and he'll succeed more.