Just Some Big Men Stats

[kyrv]

It's nothing new to me. It's been apparent for a long time that we'd win more games if the young bigs played more minutes.

Hate to say it, but even IT wouldn't do the cr*p Paxson is doing. IT has benched Marbury, Randolph, and Curry (to name three) when they have been lacking in effort. And Marbury has stuff on him. ;p

We have Bucks fan (rightfully) asking why a #2 pick can't get into games. And...we have no idea.

So...Tyrus was good second half and playoffs last year - what did they do to him? And why?

[JackFinn]

3rd biggest problem: Wallace clocking in more than 0 minutes per game.

2nd biggest problem of this year: Hinrich and Gordon, all slump-happy and s***.

Biggest problem: Depression fetish. That we allow our happiness to be dependent on wins/losses. That we cannot enjoy basketball beyond the concern for whether you get a positive number when you subtract the opponents score from yours.

[Jujuba69]

we need to trade Wallace badly.

without him:

Noah 28 / Gray 10 / Joe 10
Joe 16 / Tyrus 22 / Noci 10
Deng 36 / Noci 12
Gordon 38 / Thabo 10
Kirk 36 / Duhon 12

[DASMACKDOWN]

I was meaning to write this in a different post but this is the perfect place to put it.

I was thinking about the Gasol stuff and things like that and I was just trying to measure (in a vacuum) stats for this team.

The thing that struck me the most was Joe Smith.

Now work with me for a minute.

Forget how old Joe Smith is.
Forget that he has played in the league 13 years.

Just have a clean slate Joe Smith and look what he has done since Boylan has been here.

Joe Smith is avg 18/7 right now.

That is basically Lamarcus Aldridge.

Joe has been one of the hottest shooters in the league in the past 11 games.

Now in saying all of this, the Bulls have still only gone 6/5 during this stretch.

Now under normal situations, if this were rookie Joe Smith, wouldnt we right now be looking for a guard?

I think people realize that no Joe Smith is not the long term answer, but I believe Joe has probably got 3 years left in him.

When you consider if we traded for Gasol, which could be any combination of Smith,Tyrus and one of the core, wouldnt we actually be taking a step back?

I just have a hard time believing that the current 18/7 Joe Smith, with a Tyrus with a Gordon and Deng is better than a Gasol with only Gordon or Deng.

I believe it he was that much of a difference, the Grizzlies would be a much better team. But they arent and havent been in 2 years.

I would concentrate on the guard play first before I think about trading any current front court players. Gordon stays. its upgrading Kirk and Duhon which is key.

[JeremyB0001]

Hate to say it, but even IT wouldn't do the cr*p Paxson is doing. IT has benched Marbury, Randolph, and Curry (to name three) when they have been lacking in effort. And Marbury has stuff on him. ;p

We have Bucks fan (rightfully) asking why a #2 pick can't get into games. And...we have no idea.

So...Tyrus was good second half and playoffs last year - what did they do to him? And why?

I'd say it's some combination of deferring to the coaching staff too much and obsessing over "winning now" too much. On both accounts, Pax may be relying on principle too heavily. Out of respect for Skiles (and head coaches in general), he sat idly by while Tyrus rotted on the bench. He naively believed that Skiles would find major minutes for Tyrus and Noah in a crowded front court. He signed Smith because it made us better on paper when a few extra wins aren't worth much in the long run when weighed against allowing our young players to see the floor.

[Leslie Forman]

Marcus Fizer per 36
19.8 PPG/9.6 RPG/2.1 APG/.6 SPG/.8 BPG/6.0 FTA

Eddy Curry per 36
19.5 PPG/8.1 RPG/.8 APG/.4 SPG/1.4 BPG/6.6 FTA

Tyson Chandler per 36
13.6 PPG/10.1 RPG/1.5 APG/.7 SPG/2.1 BPG/5.7 FTA

Donyell Marshall per 36
15.8 PPG/10.6 RPG/2.1 APG/1.4 SPG/1.3 BPG/3.3 FTA

Lonny Baxter per 36
13.8 PPG/8.7 RPG/.8 APG/.5 SPG/1.2 BPG/5.4 FTA

DALIBOR F'N BAGARIC per 36
9.0 PPG/9.5 RPG/1.9 APG/1.4 SPG/1.4 BPG/1.9 FTA

The lesson? Dalibor Bagaric>>>>>>>>>>>>Ben Wallace

[ATRAIN53]

Our bigs aren

[DuckIII]

I don't buy the premise. We don't need new guards. We need Hinrich and Gordon to play to their capabilities and we need Thabo to develop while Duhon sits.

Backcourt problem solved.

The problem IS in the frontcourt. Those stats are nice, but they don't take into consideration how the stats are obtained (which is particularly important when it comes to scoring) or how the players play together when they are combined on the court.

[tclg]

Or that the worst player is getting the most minutes

[The ROY]

We need Calderon to Chicago

Indeed.

I've been saying we needed a true PG for awhile now. Chicago's almost lost offensively without one.

[tclg]

yes I would definitely love bringing calderon here what would it cost noah/ tyrus or something like that?

[The ROY]

I personally don't even see why they'd think of moving him when he's much better than T.J. Ford.

[tclg]

Yeah he is a lot better they got a steal

[DASMACKDOWN]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'd say it's some combination of deferring to the coaching staff too much and obsessing over "winning now" too much. On both accounts, Pax may be relying on principle too heavily. Out of respect for Skiles (and head coaches in general), he sat idly by while Tyrus rotted on the bench. He naively believed that Skiles would find major minutes for Tyrus and Noah in a crowded front court. He signed Smith because it made us better on paper when a few extra wins aren't worth much in the long run when weighed against allowing our young players to see the floor.

Yes it was Pax's thinking and everyone else for that matter believed that Smith would purely play Pj's role (ie 20+mins) and Wallace have a decent backup.

The problem is that Smith is much much better than PJ and Wallace much much worse. Adding more fuel to the fire, is that now Wallace is playing more than ever.

So now they are squeezing 15 mins for 3 guys. And all 3 guys deserve far more than 15 mins per game.

[Red Larrivee]

Gray has no business playing, and if we were playing as well as we were last season he would have DNP-CD's nearly every game.

The guy slows our whole team down....he is like tying an achor on everyone when he is on the floor....but you're right he does have a post game.....I just would never play him.

Yea thats how I feel about it. If this team was as good as they were supposed to be, Aaron Gray wouldn't even be playing. He'd be what he was supposed to be and that was a 3rd Unit player. The fact that people here are even crying for this guy to get 30 minutes a game now makes it even more pathetic.

He's got a big body and can score on that, but he's too slow, can't defend, rebound, or finish.

[JackFinn]

The fact that people here are even crying for this guy to get 30 minutes a game now makes it even more pathetic.

Show me multiple posts crying for Gray to get 30 minutes a game please.

[DuckIII]

Show me multiple posts crying for Gray to get 30 minutes a game please.

Hell, show me one. (Bull Shak's posts don't count.)

[Magilla_Gorilla]

The fact that people here are even crying for this guy to get 30 minutes a game now makes it even more pathetic.

Are you capable of posting without hyperbole?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Gray has no business playing, and if we were playing as well as we were last season he would have DNP-CD's nearly every game.

The guy slows our whole team down....he is like tying an achor on everyone when he is on the floor....but you're right he does have a post game.....I just would never play him.

But you have to prove that he is a negative when he is on the floor. So what he cant defend, he makes up for it on offense.

In reality, its not so much because Gray Owns. Its more because Wallace SUCKS.

-= original quote snipped =-



Yea thats how I feel about it. If this team was as good as they were supposed to be, Aaron Gray wouldn't even be playing. He'd be what he was supposed to be and that was a 3rd Unit player. The fact that people here are even crying for this guy to get 30 minutes a game now makes it even more pathetic.

He's got a big body and can score on that, but he's too slow, can't defend, rebound, or finish.

Again no one says he should get 30 mins but definately get in every game to see what hes got.

---

And you guys needs to really check the reason why we are losing? You sure its because of the frontcourt? I beg to differ.

PJ Brown 6.1ppg 4.8rebs 20mins 40%fg 20mins starter
Malik Allen 4pts 2rebs 10mins 41% 60 games
Sweetney 3.2pts 2.5rebs 8mins 43% 48 games

vs their new replacement

Joe Smith 10.7ppg 5.2rebs 48%fg 22mins starter
Joakim Noah 4.4pts 3.6rebs 45%fg 13mins
Aaron Gray 4.6pts 2.6rebs 50%fg 10mins

The new guys are considerably better than their counterparts. In fact Joe Smith alone is outproducing PJ Brown and Allen combined.

We have actually strengthen our frontcourt this year.

Its our backcourt that has sucked severly to the previous year.

Gordon 18.9ppg 41%fg 36%3ptr 35mins
Kirk 11.3 6.1ast 39%fg 29%3ptr 34mins

comparted to last year

Gordon 21.4ppg 45.5%fg 41%3ptr in 33mins
Kirk 16.6ppg 45%fg 41.4%3ptr in 35.5mins

So if anything, its the guards that have hurt the bulls the most.

If Ben Wallace was out of the equation, our front court would be EVEN BETTER than it is now. So you cant blame them for the record.

[tclg]

too bad that he plays 35 out of the 96 minutes available