Charles Barkley: Don't Blame Noah. Blame The Vets

[DuckIII]

I didn't say anyone did try to downplay the outburst. I am saying that the lack of knowledge of what went on there (and what you're saying happened is pretty much unconfirmed and not widespread knowledge) has caused Noah to get off way more lightly than he would have otherwise. Its not that he's somehow protected from scorn, its just difficult to pin down whether what Noah said is somehow redeemable or just awful(Donovan said that whatever the argument was, Noah just wants to win. Noah has the image of a winner, so perhaps that reputation, combined with this team's propensity for losing, has insulated him).

Edit b/c of your edit: I'm just openly wondering why people ARENT more angry at Noah. TB#1 I think mistakenly thought that the m-fer quote was in print, and I myself became much more negative towards Noah until I learned that he was mistaken.

I don't think the level of detail reported would have mattered. Fans and media were subconsciously (and consciously) itching for something to go off on. The team's extension of Noah's suspension was the catalyst for that. And you can't contemporaneously scold Noah while you are ripping the team for its response to what he did. It would weaken the basis for the outrage. So what Noah did goes largely ignored.

Fans and media weren't saying "we don't really know all the facts so maybe we should just trust the organization's judgment on this one." The details of what Noah said would have been swept away in the flood of vitriol that washed over the vets, Boylan and Paxson. All reports were that it was an angry, profane outburst - they just didn't provide the precise language used. And despite the fact that it was angry and profane, it didn't matter.

This is an example of a time when the devil is not in the details. This was the sports-fan, sports-media equivalent of mass hysteria and mob mentality.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

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My assessment is that you just like to type "mother-****". This makes, what, around 4 dozen times in the past day or so?

I'm beginning to think Duck has a key-bind for "mother-****".

[Wingy]

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I have note seen Noah take any blame nationally or locally. Everything I saw was directed at the vets, the coach, and the GM.

To the uninformed observer, don't you think that it could very easily look like Noah is being singled out for blame when he has already been punished for the act, and then on top of that he receives an extremely rare (or even unprecedented) team suspension on top of it?..because they want to make sure everyone's on the same page??

It's stuff that's more implied to outsiders that they put together and link through observation w/o knowing all the facts. We know that Noah was suspended for his actions, but when the uninformed take those links that are implied and then put them next to the facts that even Barkley can see (that it's clear that it's the vets who are the problem)...then you can see why he'd make such a statement.

We actually agree on the subject, we're just debating an angle here. You're a lawyer and I like to debate just like anyone else here.

[DuckIII]

My assessment is that you just like to type "mother-****". This makes, what, around 4 dozen times in the past day or so?

I'm doing it for emphasis. Because I think what got lost in the tsunami of emotion earlier this week is that Noah called his coach a ****.

[Wingy]

This was the sports-fan, sports-media equivalent of mass hysteria and mod mentality.

Yes, you guys are pretty crazy.

[ptpablo]

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Perhaps. The point is, the "Noah situation" has nothing to do with the actual Noah situation. If this team were 21-14 (the inverse of the record when Noah called his coach a mother-****) and it came out that Noah had called one of the coaches a mother-**** during practice, he would have been absolutely crucified locally and nationally by the press and fans alike.

I think Noah went off is because he knows like the rest of us know that this team would be much closer to that 21-14 record if he played more than Wallace.

[DuckIII]

To the uninformed observer, don't you think that it could very easily look like Noah is being singled out for blame when he has already been punished for the act, and then on top of that he receives an extremely rare (or even unprecedented) team suspension on top of it?..because they want to make sure everyone's on the same page??

Absolutely. But that goes to the perception that the team/organization is blaming Noah. And to a casual observer, I definitely can see how they'd reach that conclusion. Sadly, there might even be some truth to it.

But its my understanding that Barkely was venting because "people" and the "media" were blaming Noah. And I'm just arguing that this is something that just didn't happen and that, indeed, the opposite is true in that the media sprayed Noah with a fresh coat of teflon.

[DuckIII]

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Yes, you guys are pretty crazy.

Damn, you quoted it before I could fix the typo.

[DuckIII]

I think Noah went off is because he knows like the rest of us know that this team would be much closer to that 21-14 record if he played more than Wallace.

I think thats entirely possible.

[TB#1]

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Damn, you quoted it before I could fix the typo.

that's just turrble.

[Wingy]

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Absolutely. But that goes to the perception that the team/organization is blaming Noah. And to a casual observer, I definitely can see how they'd reach that conclusion. Sadly, there might even be some truth to it.

But its my understanding that Barkely was venting because "people" and the "media" were blaming Noah. And I'm just arguing that this is something that just didn't happen and that, indeed, the opposite is true in that the media sprayed Noah with a fresh coat of teflon.

I understand it the same way too, and I also agree that it didn't happen, so like I said, we agree....but to the 'uninformed observers' that we're talking about...in their minds it DID happen due to the perception they formed from looking at media reports. I am simply arguing that since we all know Barkley is the uninformed, his statement shouldn't be the least bit surprising. I agree that it's not actual reality, but it is reality to the casual fan.

EDIT - I read your statement more carefully. I see what you mean that people aren't blaming...but the perception that the media is blaming Noah is legit.

[DuckIII]

EDIT - I read your statement more carefully. I see what you mean that people aren't blaming...but the perception that the media is blaming Noah is legit.

Legit in the sense that the perception exists? Or legit in the sense that the perception has a legitimate basis?

Because my whole point is that the perception that media is blaming Noah has absolutely no legitimate basis.

But does the perception exist regardless of its merit? It exists in Charles Barkley, thats for sure.

[Wingy]

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Legit in the sense that the perception exists? Or legit in the sense that the perception has a legitimate basis?

Because my whole point is that the perception that media is blaming Noah has absolutely no legitimate basis.

But does the perception exist regardless of its merit? It exists in Charles Barkley, thats for sure.

Yes. That's the one, exists - though it's unfounded just like you say.

So going back to Chuckles ( at how we are debating a micro-point on Sir Chuckles)...you can't blame him for saying what he did if we accept that the dude is in his own world and that's not gonna change. Of course he thinks that...he never knows what's really going on, he just skims the headlines.

You could blame him for being in that world since he is supposed to be an NBA analyst. Chuck is just the color guy to me, I laugh at his nonsense and his crap doesn't bother me like it does a lot of posters here. He's great comic relief. I look to Kenny and Ernie for more legitimate opinions.

[Dieselbound&Down]

Yeah I think the line is blurred concerning Noah and leadership. Lets get this thing clear, Noah isnt showing any leadership by consistantly coming late for practise and cussing out his coach.

Overhead from Noah on Monday -

"If I came late to practice, I came late to practice. It is as simple as that. It ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about practice. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be a lottery pick player, and we're talking about practice. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last but we're talking about practice man. How silly is that? ... Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're talking about practice man. We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you've seen me play right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about practice right now. ... Hey I hear you, it's funny to me too, hey it's strange to me too but we're talking about practice man, we're not even talking about the game, when it actually matters, we're talking about practice ... How the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?

[DuckIII]

I like Barkley, Wingy. He entertains me too. Its just that his statement exhibited ignorance on an issue that has me fired up lately - the fan and media reaction to the Noah suspension.

[DuckIII]

Classic, Diesel. The funny thing is, when you read that Iverson appears to make a very convincing case until the very last sentence, and then he spectacularly screws the pooch. He went one line too far.

[Wingy]

... an issue that has me fired up lately...

Oh really?? That's why you've been acting like such a mother-**** lately.

[DuckIII]

Oh really?? That's why you've been acting like such a mother-**** lately.

Now you are learning. Now Bulls fans and the media will love you.

[AirP.]

If Noah isn't doing the normal "Rookie" things like carrying bags, getting doughnuts, grabbing dry cleaning.. you know, stupid rookie you make life rough on him. Icy hot his jock, fill his car full of trash make life suck for him.

But suspension... that's just all sorts of wrong.

Noah's an odd duck, but his coaches have always said he's been respectful to them and was willing to whatever it took to get the team to win.

Now think about it, Ron Adams spent Christmas with Noah and his mom, couple that with Noah's passion to win and you get that Noah wasn't mad at Adams' he was mad that Adams was saying to win we have to do this, even though the team HAD been doing that and losing.

I never blew up like that but came close a few times, our HS coach made us run a slow offense built for big men and we had nobody over 6'2'' and a rival town ran the run and gun and would beat us in games but in summer league games when we had no coach we'd run them off the court. Not always does the system get the most out of it's players and if you're a player in that situation, it gets very frustrating.

[Dieselbound&Down]

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Now you are learning. Now Bulls fans and the media will love you.

But doesn't that make Wingy an entitlement-minded jack ass?