OT: Report: Cavaliers make offer to Tom Izzo

[PlayoffRose]

BTW, if LBJ is leaning toward the Cavs because of Izzo, the Bulls would know it. As a connected NBA franchise, you would think that the Bulls have more back channels available to them than Tom Freaking Izzo.

[DuckIII]

If it's all about LeBron, and assurances about LeBron coming back, then why didn't Izzo just accept on the spot? Because it's a no brainer choice to accept the job if LeBron is coming back and he's going to be paid double what he is making.

Or because its never a no brainer to abandon your child. MSU is what Izzo made it to be. Leaving that is never a no brainer for a coach.

Then we have to believe that LeBron went from previously giving no clues to Cleveland, and not having Izzo as a prerequisite, to suddenly changing his opinion mid-stream, that he now suddenly wants to return to the Cavs just because of Izzo. I just don't think LeBron rates any coach, esp a college one unproven at the NBA level, as the main thing in determining whether Cleveland is worthy or not.

I don't understand how this concept is getting convoluted like this. Its not that Izzo changed LeBron's mind. Its that LeBron was always heavily leaning towards staying (not exactly a shock), and Izzo was the feather that tipped the scale, and he told Izzo exactly that. Entirely plausible. And perhaps several other coaches could also have been that feather.

This isn't Izzo gets LeBron. Its Izzo grabs LeBron's coat tails.

[Scott May]

I'm with Scott May 100% on this one - in that we are making our best guess.

The question isn't whether Izzo is enough to "lure" LeBron. The question is whether LeBron is enough to lure Izzo, whereas the money isn't.

I simply do not believe Izzo would doom himself to a **** program. Even at that pay grade. And Scott's reasoning is my own: He doesn't have to. He'll have chances over and over and over again to make the jump. To better programs with better futures.

The most logical conclusion here is that, if Izzo takes the job, he's doing it because he firmly believes, based on good information, that LeBron is returning to Cleveland.

If Sacramento offered Coach K $6 million a year, he'd laugh. And so would Izzo. And Cleveland without LeBron wishes like hell it was Sacramento.

This is all about LeBron, in my opinion.

If it's all about LeBron, and assurances about LeBron coming back, then why didn't Izzo just accept on the spot? Because it's a no brainer choice to accept the job if LeBron is coming back and he's going to be paid double what he is making.

Then we have to believe that LeBron went from previously giving no clues to Cleveland, and not having Izzo as a prerequisite, to suddenly changing his opinion mid-stream, that he now suddenly wants to return to the Cavs just because of Izzo. I just don't think LeBron rates any coach, esp a college one unproven at the NBA level, as the main thing in determining whether Cleveland is worthy or not.

From all signs I read from LeBron he is operating on a level so much bigger than that. You don't go on Larry King to milk your own importance and let rumors simmer about a 'world tour of destinations' only to just meekly return to the Cavs because they hired Tom Izzo.

You might be right -- maybe this is so tortuous for Izzo because he's weighing money vs. the realities of being a pro coach for a bad team that doesn't have LeBron.

on the other hand, I think you can make a case for his being agonized and wanting to think about it even if LeBron himself assured him he was coming back and wanted him as his hand-picked coach. It's a big risk, it's a big culture change, it's leaving a place he's known for 25+ years. Kind of the same sorts of things that might tether LeBron to the Cavs, actually -- maybe it's not 100% rational, but it's there.

Just going by gut: I can't believe that the Cavs aren't getting some sort of yea/nay signal from LeBron, and I can't believe that Izzo would make this leap without at least knowing what LeBron's signal was.

[Rerisen]

BTW, if LBJ is leaning toward the Cavs because of Izzo, the Bulls would know it.

I would think a lot of teams would have known it. As in WWW getting word out that, "hey, LeBron would really really really like to play for Tom Izzo! So if you are interested in him, you better start making overtures."

At which point, the Bulls and their profit margins are plenty of enough to compete money wise with Cleveland - as well as being able to sell the better roster.

And isn't this all coming just days after reports that LeBron didn't care about picking the coach for the team he's going to. But now the coach is suddenly the lead factor in where he's going (returning)? Hard to buy the reasoning.

[DuckIII]

BTW, if LBJ is leaning toward the Cavs because of Izzo, the Bulls would know it. As a connected NBA franchise, you would think that the Bulls have more back channels available to them than Tom Freaking Izzo.

Or it could explain why the Bulls offered their gig to Izzo first.

[Rerisen]

I can't believe that the Cavs aren't getting some sort of yea/nay signal from LeBron, and I can't believe that Izzo would make this leap without at least knowing what LeBron's signal was.

And I can't believe this entire offseason drama and hype from LeBron was all about something so simple as firing Mike Brown and hiring Tom Izzo.

Cleveland could have accomplished this within a couple days of the season ending. And it would have been in their interests to do so, before LeBron's head had time to be filled with thoughts of other teams, and other enticements.

I'm just not so sure this isn't a lot of "*I* love Tom Izzo as a coach, so LeBron must love Tom Izzo as a coach."

People are underestimating that money is the driving factor in most of these situations. A coach with great credentials at the college level, can always go back and have success there, even if he fails at the NBA. See Calipari, Pitino, etc.

[PlayoffRose]

The Bulls did not offer the Bulls job to Izzo. That is your conjecture, not a fact. You have followed this franchise long enough to know that it is not this franchise's motto to offer a coach a job after the 1st interview. Even during the Phil Jackson era, this organization dragged its feet for weeks, negotiating with the Goat of NBA coaches.

The money isn't an issue for the Bulls, if Tom Izzo will bring them LBJ. Most of your points are a moot since they are just based on conjecture -- the same also applies to me. I just have a hard time believing that LBJ decision will be based on an unproven college coach.

[fleet]

again, Duck is right. Its an independent decision for Lebron. We all know the Cavs didn't lose because of Mike Brown. Maybe Lebron and his ego might think so partly on a certain level. He might not want to play for Brown. So Gilbert eliminates that problem. Now its just does Lebron return for any other reason than Loyalty and does he think he can win? Nah. Its just those 2 things. Loyalty and tem talent level. Its not about Izzo. Hes just a good coah that the Cavs and Bulls like. Lebron won't make this decision because he likes a coach. He would if he dislikes a coach. And Lebron has said that. But it isn't an Izzo specific decision for lebron. Izzo is probably just on and acceptable list of coaches.

No, its not an Izzo driven decision for Lebron. But it IS a Lebron driven decision for Izzo.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

BTW, if LBJ is leaning toward the Cavs because of Izzo, the Bulls would know it. As a connected NBA franchise, you would think that the Bulls have more back channels available to them than Tom Freaking Izzo.

Or it could explain why the Bulls offered their gig to Izzo first.

Except that they didn't.

[Rerisen]

If Izzo accepts and LeBron was the reason, then I expect this will all be over in a couple days. Because LeBron giving such a signal will immediately start producing leaks in the media, that Cleveland is back on top and other teams are on the outs.

So at least this would all be over with and the Bulls can move on to other targets like Bosh.

But if a week has gone by (with or without Izzo accepting) and the same trickles about LeBron to Chicago, or being undecided, are coming out, then I think we can say it really hasn't changed anything.

[fleet]

I can't believe that the Cavs aren't getting some sort of yea/nay signal from LeBron, and I can't believe that Izzo would make this leap without at least knowing what LeBron's signal was.

And I can't believe this entire offseason drama and hype from LeBron was all about something so simple as firing Mike Brown and hiring Tom Izzo.

Cleveland could have accomplished this within a couple days of the season ending. And it would have been in their interests to do so, before LeBron's head had time to be filled with thoughts of other teams, and other enticements.

I'm just not so sure this isn't a lot of "*I* love Tom Izzo as a coach, so LeBron must love Tom Izzo as a coach."

People are underestimating that money is the driving factor in most of these situations. A coach with great credentials at the college level, can always go back and have success there, even if he fails at the NBA. See Calipari, Pitino, etc.

in a normal case, it might be about the money. We aren't underestimating the money. But Izzo has a top 3 ranked team right now, and he can get get paid anytime he wants. But he can't just walk away from a team like that, to work for an MSU alumn, essentially becoming a *goats* if MSU loses, without the rationale of a once in 100 coaches lifetime chance to coach a possible *GOAT*. He just can't Re'. It can't just be about the money in this case.

[DuckIII]

The Bulls did not offer the Bulls job to Izzo. That is your conjecture, not a fact.

It is a media report.

You have followed this franchise long enough to know that it is not this franchise's motto to offer a coach a job after the 1st interview.

Except when it comes to the guy they just hired?

The money isn't an issue for the Bulls, if Tom Izzo will bring them LBJ.

I'll say it for the 10th time or so in this thread: Izzo isn't "getting" LeBron. The theory goes that if Izzo takes the job, its because LeBron is - and was - staying home. Which was always a strong possibility in every reality but Bulls-fandomerica.

Look, I'm not saying its a lock. Hell, Izzo hasn't even taken the job yet. But I'm saying that if he does take the job, it STRONGLY suggests to me that LeBron ain't going nowhere.

[DuckIII]

No, its not an Izzo driven decision for Lebron. But it IS a Lebron driven decision for Izzo.

Exactly. Succinctly stated.

[Rerisen]

The general impression I have always gotten from NBA players is that they downplay the importance of coaches vastly more than the media and general fanbase. Coaches just aren't that important many NBA watchers believe, and players even more so appear to believe this.

Look how fast Mike D'antoni has gone from hero to zero in the coaching ranks. When NY signed MD, there was all this talk of him being a lure for players to play in NY. Now after 2 miserable years, no one even bothers to try to sell D'antoni's 'super fun' offense as a reason for players to come there this summer.

Outside of someone like Phil Jackson making an impression, most players are ego centric and go with the Vinny Del Negro line of thought, "Players win games."

If the Cavs situation speculation turns out to be true regarding LeBron/Izzo, then LeBron will be rather an exception among NBA players, who puts extreme importance on a coach. Maybe if Mike Brown was the worst coach in the history of the universe, it could have triggered such an overreaction by LeBron, but it seems dubious to me.

[DuckIII]

BTW, if LBJ is leaning toward the Cavs because of Izzo, the Bulls would know it. As a connected NBA franchise, you would think that the Bulls have more back channels available to them than Tom Freaking Izzo.

Or it could explain why the Bulls offered their gig to Izzo first.

Except that they didn't.

Again, its a collateral point. But its being reported that they did, anyway.

[fleet]

BTW, if LBJ is leaning toward the Cavs because of Izzo, the Bulls would know it. As a connected NBA franchise, you would think that the Bulls have more back channels available to them than Tom Freaking Izzo.

Or it could explain why the Bulls offered their gig to Izzo first.

Except that they didn't.

probably not formally. Its likely a semantics game the Bulls are playing.

[DuckIII]

If Izzo accepts and LeBron was the reason, then I expect this will all be over in a couple days. Because LeBron giving such a signal will immediately start producing leaks in the media, that Cleveland is back on top and other teams are on the outs.

So at least this would all be over with and the Bulls can move on to other targets like Bosh.

But if a week has gone by (with or without Izzo accepting) and the same trickles about LeBron to Chicago, or being undecided, are coming out, then I think we can say it really hasn't changed anything.

I can get behind that take. To an extent.

[DuckIII]

The general impression I have always gotten from NBA players is that they downplay the importance of coaches vastly more than the media and general fanbase. Coaches just aren't that important many NBA watchers believe, and players even more so appear to believe this.

Look how fast Mike D'antoni has gone from hero to zero in the coaching ranks. When NY signed MD, there was all this talk of him being a lure for players to play in NY. Now after 2 miserable years, no one even bothers to try to sell D'antoni's 'super fun' offense as a reason for players to come there this summer.

Outside of someone like Phil Jackson making an impression, most players are ego centric and go with the Vinny Del Negro line of thought, "Players win games."

If the Cavs situation speculation turns out to be true regarding LeBron/Izzo, then LeBron will be rather an exception among NBA players, who puts extreme importance on a coach. Maybe if Mike Brown was the worst coach in the history of the universe, it could have triggered such an overreaction by LeBron, but it seems dubious to me.

Jesus Christ Re, how many times do those disagreeing with you have to clarify. No one is arguing that Izzo is what would covince LeBron to stay. Its the converse. That LeBron's staying (along with the sick cash) convinced Izzo to take the job.

[PlayoffRose]

LBJ better gets ready to take a major hit to his image if he hypes up his FA status so much, only to resign with the Cavs.

If LBJ and the Cavs fail again next year, I could see a career stat padding loser to be labeled on him. It is extreme. But, the media grilled his butt hard especially after that Game 5 against the Celtics. We know that LBJ is very conscious of his image.

[Rerisen]

So basically what we are running with here is that; LeBron was always wanting to return to Cleveland, and that the only thing that would derail that would be the Cavs hiring a crap coach that he didn't like or approve. Nothing to do with making the team better personnel wise, or getting the roster closer to actually winning a title on the floor?

As Tom Izzo isn't a crap coach, and is acceptable to LeBron, boom, he's given the signal, he's coming back.

Just that easy. *dusts off hands*

All this hullabaloo since the Cavs got bounced, just for Cleveland not to screw up a coaching hire.

And people have accused me of being a pessimistic Bulls fan, geez.