Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[coldfish]

Jimmy should and could have keep this internally. What the hell is he thinking? The media can't do anything to fix his problem. He should be careful with his openess to the media, teammates may start keeping some distance from him.

MJ was actually the same way, but he gets on his coaches and teammates face behind closed doors. Does Jimmy think he's Jordan?

I think Fred won't be too bothered with it. Somehow, I think Jimmy is calling out Niko. Niko played with no sense of urgency, and I think Hoiberg is not holding him accountable.

Has it crossed people's minds that it has been in doors for quite some time now, in house finger pointing, calling people out, etc. and its just not working so Butler is trying a different tactic?

Different coach have different style. If Jimmy don't like how Hoiberg handle things he should challenge him internally. So you're assuming Jimmy have challenged Hoiberg multiple times internally, and Hoiberg have been dismissing Jimmy's concern. So now Jimmy goes to the media because Hoiberg have been ignoring him? Or failing to act upon Jimmy's input/concern.

I have a hard time believing this scenario.

I don't know, but given that we have been hearing whispers of locker room discord for quite some time, I don't think its that hard to believe that the players have been going at it behind closed doors. Now its just spilling into the media.

Do I need to bump all the rumor threads about Rose and Butler? Given that Rose is having a historically bad season and had a few games now where defensive execution on his part has not been good, would it really be surprising that its Rose that he wants Hoiberg to call out?

[BoozerRoNo]

I'm glad Jimmy did it. You know why because he has been hinting at it and hinting at it for a while and his teammates still aren't playing hard. The main guy he wants to call out is Rose but he can't directly do that to the media so he calls out the coach who goes around covering for Derrick Rose saying he was sick, his blurred vision ect excuses instead telling this guy I don't care suck it up and play.

[Crafty_Veteran]

I think Jimmy would love to go to the Lakers. Question: does anyone else think Jimmy would be disappointed if he got shipped to the Lakers? maybe that's part of what he's doing here. If so, a dangerous play as he could find himself in Memphis or someplace like that.

[Tetlak]

Jimmy has called out his teammates for lack of effort multiple times this season. Let's not forget that. I'm sure seeing Pau on a nightly basis give zero effort in guarding pick and rolls (especially after the 4OT game), Niko jack up trash, and Rose being inconsistent with his approach has gotten to be too much for Jimmy...because it has gotten to be too much for me, and I'm just a fan.

I don't know what Fred does behind the scenes. Maybe Jimmy just feels that Fred never backed up his attempts to set his teammates straight, and he's trying something new.

I'd be willing to bet Jimmy would be happier with the effort if Bobby got more minutes, and Pau and Niko got less.

[reggieandtfe]

Fred Hoiberg has brought back up what Thibodeau was doing. He has done away with a lot of things that he wanted to do in favor of what the team did last season.

Solely blaming the offense on Fred Hoiberg is hard for me to cop when he has Derrick Rose running his offense. He's bad historically bad this season, but somehow that continues to be overlooked or least downplayed.

Hoiberg may eventually turn out to be a good head coach with more NBA experience, I'm not solely placing blame on him. Most of the blame should be directed at the FO that put an inexperienced coach in charge of a veteran team that was supposed to be contending for a title, while making zero changes to help him with the transition and new system that he was bringing. I honestly could not believe that this FO was dumb enough to expose themselves to pure, objective criticism by bringing back the exact same roster, trying to prove that the past failures laid at the hands of Thibs.

Plus a million.

This mess is completely on the front office. They undermined the coach last year, brought in Swanson to create a country club atmosphere, then fired the coach and brought in a soft puppet as his replacement. If you go back through some of these players' histories (particularly Pau and Mirotic) there are some troubling signs for their coachability too.

This is nothing like the Skiles Bulls teams or the 2010 Thibs team where everyone was a hard working high character guy. The front office assembled a questionable group and then coddled them. The old Paxson never would have done that.

IMO, the front office should be fired for being so blinded by ego that they can't even follow their own traditions. I doubt that is going to happen though so the most I can hope for is a few retributive trades to clean up the locker room.

Oh, and fire the stooge assistant coaches (Myers and Brown) and get Fred some real help while they are at it. It kills me to see that they fired Adams over personality issues as he seemingly is a huge part of GS as no talent yes men like Myers and Brown get hired on in Chicago.

Great summary of what's really going. I've never been a Hoiberg guy (calling his NCAA career "distinguished" is hilariously generous), but the blame falls on the egotistical front office. They honestly thought the wins and team identity were due to their brilliant managerial moves and not due to the guys on the court along with the guy telling them where to go.

Those calling for Jimmy to be traded are insane, full stop. NuRose is what he is, an over priced chucker that has a worse DRtg than Doug or Brooks and a PER that would have him riding the bench on any other team. If you want to build around him and Doug, then get ready for those Floydberg insults to become true as we win 25 games next year.


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[Tetlak]

Another thing:

Derrick has never been a vocal leader, which probably plays in to why Jimmy has been acting this way. I won't be naive and think that Jimmy is just trying to counter balance Rose, because I think we all believe Jimmy wants to be the man here (as he should be).

[Crafty_Veteran]

Butler's comments are a national story and the spotlight on Fred and Bulls roster isn't going away unless Bulls start dominating or make some trades. I thought Isola had a good summary of the Bulls situation.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/isola-butler-rips-bulls-coach-hoiberg-loss-knicks-article-1.2471752

[molepharmer]

I wonder how many veteran players Butler called out in his rookie season, especially within his first 3 months.

[bearadonisdna]

So funny, we have been calling out hoiberg on this board for some time.
So was jimmy being unprofessionsl? Or is it a crime to express yourself?
Doing this behind close doors could single jimmy out to his teammates or coaches.
He is still singled out but he knows the onus is on hoiberg now too just not him.
Tbh, lets not rule out that jimmy hasnt been trying to relay this message and it hasnt resonated.
This is the same guy that didnt care about a career high in a loss.
Would being coached harder hurt the team?

[Wingy]

What I saw in that huge Charlotte blow out worried me and aligns w/Jimmy's comments. Some nights we're going to get our butts kicked like that night.

The way it happened though was jarring. It was maybe the worst team basketball I've personally ever seen the Bulls play. Fred did nothing about it. No timeouts, no subs...seemed like he didn't demand any accountability that particular night. Jimmy implies it may not have been a one night thing.

If that Charlotte game was the worst basketball game you seen the Bulls play you obviously weren't around in 1999-2003. Anyway Charlotte is actually good and right behind the Bulls. And what does Jimmy know to start saying all kinds of stuff now, they guy is good but he's getting too full of himself. Bulls straight up got their butt whooped from the tip off and Hornets could not miss a shot even when the Bulls tightened their D, game was too out of reach to make adjustments

People love the Jimmy story but he is not infallible. He is acting like an ass. Call a team meeting and F lead. If this was Brandon Marshall people would be all over him. Even though Brandon has been a far better football player over the length of his career.

Oh and I would trade Jimmy for Cousins. Hey if he is going to be a malcontent

I was around for the Ron Mercer/Dalibor/Baby Bulls era, but I only followed via reading/Chicago websites back then. Thus the "personally seen" qualifier.

I already addressed us getting whupped. I said some nights it's going to happen. I wasn't calling for "adjustments." I was hoping our coach would actually ask our guys with a whole ton of game time left to at least try to run his standard offense. Ya know, since it's brand new and all and to this day we're not good at running it.

Instead we had multiple stretches w/4-5 consecutive trips down the court w/guys dribbling up and jacking threes immediately or a single pass and then a jacked three. I don't care how bad the score was. Letting that crap go on like we were out at the park was being way too hands off and letting the players run wild.

As for Jimmy. Maybe he was actually anti-Fred in the first place, or anti-"we like our guys" and rolling the same mismatched roster out again this season. Perhaps he expressed that to GarPax and it fell on deaf ears. I don't generally like the go to the media strategy, but maybe the message is for GarPax. If it did indeed go down like that, I'm not really upset. At least someone w/the power to try to make our team better is speaking up vs. a bunch of internet posters who have no say.

[RSP83]

Has it crossed people's minds that it has been in doors for quite some time now, in house finger pointing, calling people out, etc. and its just not working so Butler is trying a different tactic?

Different coach have different style. If Jimmy don't like how Hoiberg handle things he should challenge him internally. So you're assuming Jimmy have challenged Hoiberg multiple times internally, and Hoiberg have been dismissing Jimmy's concern. So now Jimmy goes to the media because Hoiberg have been ignoring him? Or failing to act upon Jimmy's input/concern.

I have a hard time believing this scenario.

I don't know, but given that we have been hearing whispers of locker room discord for quite some time, I don't think its that hard to believe that the players have been going at it behind closed doors. Now its just spilling into the media.

Do I need to bump all the rumor threads about Rose and Butler? Given that Rose is having a historically bad season and had a few games now where defensive execution on his part has not been good, would it really be surprising that its Rose that he wants Hoiberg to call out?

Hoiberg kinda does babysitting Rose a little bit, he's been protective of Rose. But trying to look at things from Hoiberg's perspective, it's not that simple.

First, despite all the hate Rose been getting. We all know despite very limited possibilities, with this current team, the difference between middle of the pack team and championship contention is Derrick Rose. Large of the blame should go to the FO for putting us in this position. My speculation, Hoiberg is taking a shot at rebuilding Derrick Rose, at least he's giving it a try. He's trying to build that trust now, hence the over-protection. Jimmy, I think just don't like Hoiberg's style and it's holding back the team.

Second, outside of Rose our backup rotation consists of Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Brooks, and 'acting point guard' E'twaun Moore. It's not like Hoiberg have much choice than keep trying to build Derrick Rose. Again this PG situation is FO to blame, you thought they should know better after this past 2 years. Rose should no longer be relied upon as a full time primary PG in the first place, and FO thinks Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Brooks (two players who would be 3rd stringers on other team) is the answer?

I'm not defending Hoiberg here, just trying to look at it from different perspective.

[DarthDiggler69]

I think Jimmy would love to go to the Lakers. Question: does anyone else think Jimmy would be disappointed if he got shipped to the Lakers? maybe that's part of what he's doing here. If so, a dangerous play as he could find himself in Memphis or someplace like that.

lol if hes complaining about coaching here Byron Scott is a downgrade

[DarthDiggler69]

Butler's comments are a national story and the spotlight on Fred and Bulls roster isn't going away unless Bulls start dominating or make some trades. I thought Isola had a good summary of the Bulls situation.
http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/isola-butler-rips-bulls-coach-hoiberg-loss-knicks-article-1.2471752

Isola is a Thibs stooge, dont care what that Knick reporter says because hes the most biased reporter out there when it comes to Thibs vs Bulls

[lostonbase]

Ah memories, remember Charles Oakley called out pink?

[coldfish]

Ah memories, remember Charles Oakley called out pink?

That was soo wrong of Oakley. Players shouldn't call out coaches. Charles was eventually proven to be completely incorrect.

[lostonbase]

I sure hope history isn't repeating itself.

[Hangtime84]

All we have is Jimmy's words, safest thing is take him at them. And his words talk about the coach.

He could have easily as said, "We aren't playing hard enough, including me." And put it on players.

In fact earlier in the year he was doing that. Saying that a coach can only do so much, the players have to get it done. So now to make it specifically about the coach, good chance its something about the coach.

Accountability

[DarthDiggler69]

One thing that was weird is Butler started it by saying the Bulls came out of the gates flat but they were up 12-2 first 4 minutes and were playing with good energy. It started to go slowly downhill after the Knicks called a timeout and last few minutes the Bulls were getting run on. Perhaps someone in the substitution there lost the game which Jimmy didnt like

[Chi town]

Hoiberg is probalby wishing he went with the TWolves. Right now he would be coaching them to the playoffs with a core of Towns, WIggins, Lavine. The best young core in the league.

[Crafty_Veteran]

I think Jimmy would love to go to the Lakers. Question: does anyone else think Jimmy would be disappointed if he got shipped to the Lakers? maybe that's part of what he's doing here. If so, a dangerous play as he could find himself in Memphis or someplace like that.

lol if hes complaining about coaching here Byron Scott is a downgrade

Agreed. Lakers are terrible right now, one of the worst teams in the league. But, if Jimmy concludes Bulls are rebuilding, would he rather rebuild here or in LA? Jimmy loves California, loves Hollywood, loves celebrity. That's not a knock on him, just my impression of his off the court interests/business pursuits. I'm sure I'm overreacting, but his comments have been the most surprising part of the season for me so far.