Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

[FranchisePlayer]

One of the more interesting storylines in the Lauri saga is how Mr.Sparkle-brand hyperboles have made it to many of Lauri's family members' RealGM signatures...

I've spent a good half of the time defending him!

With all due respect, there's nothing interesting about that. Those are some very weird takes, more or less hogwash, and trying to label them as "hyperboles" afterwards only makes it worse.

You have? Well you need to do a better job then, don't you? *thumbs up* Like say put one of your pleas for Lauri as your signature?

[chefo]

As I've said before, I simply think it's a matter of Donovan (possibly with AK's blessing) shooting from the hip post trade, not necessarily thinking it through in terms of who gets to play, rotations, etc. and the implications of his decisions.

I don't think it was meant to be malicious, even though it came across as really hypocritical and douchy, because he benched the Bulls' second leading scorer who has played well this year, and has made big improvements on D, while keeping a kid rook in at 30 mpg, who at the time of Lauri's benching was playing like utter excrement on both sides of the ball and not deserving anything other than garbage time.

My biggest problem with that sequence of events was that you don't have enough time to experiment post-trade, especially if said experiment will probably result in "bridge burning" with a talented young player who can leave in 3 months. You have to sit down, actually think it through, see if there's a clever way to make it work and then commit to the strategy. If that means playing huge--OK, play huge with Lauri at the 3. What you can't do is just throw shyte at the wall that's obvious that it won't work and you're just praying for some sort of miracle (i.e. Thad starting, while getting 30%+ fewer touches than before).

You have to be smart and creative enough to get your best players enough time and reps on the court--what the hell are the owners paying you for otherwise?

We don't have enough vet talent to win right now. Our young talent that deserved minutes was... Lauri. That was it, at the time of his benching. It's great to see Coby finally managed to get himself back to not being horrible, but he had one of the worst stretches of ball I've seen in his life.

If your goal was to make the playoffs, benching Lauri, cutting his minutes by a third and his touches by as much is about the most under-thought thing you can do. Not because I'm a Lauri fan--but because I'm a Bulls fan. Lauri has it in him to have games the likes of which only Zach and Vuc can have on the current roster. And, he also has gravity, which is just as much of a team-wide deficit as efficient scoring.

To give away his minutes to less talented players, who on top of it all, are nowhere near his actual productivity, is just piss-poor decision-making, unless the overarching factor is office politics and not winning games.

Lauri is scoring 10 per game post demotion, on 27 touches (fewer than Pat's for context, and almost 3x fewer than Vuc's and Zach's) on 49/45/83 and 63% TS.

Right now, he's a VASTLY better player than Pat and Val, for example. On both sides of the ball. You're telling me we can't use that guy for 30+ minutes per game and we can't get him 40 touches and 12 shots, like before the trade? Are you kidding me? Shows a huge lack of imagination on the part of the coaching staff more so than anything else.

I think Lauri is done here as a guy who can move the needle. Maybe one in three games where he scores like 16 points on 7 shots in 18 minutes and the other coach does a Nick Nurse where he wonders aloud WTF are the Bulls doing with him. My prediction seems to be holding pretty well--intersperse some single digit games with some 16-18 point games for an average of 10ish. I don't see that changing going forward. Shame, really for everybody involved.

Lauri for not having it in him to go get his and Donovan and aides for being unable to find a way to use the third most talented player on the team for more than 20 min / game.

[Louri]

You guys have lost your damn minds.

I thought that clip as a joke first when I posted it here. Now "leading" media in Finland YLE took that clip as a "news" and made a article about it. I think this tells you enough how much more important Lauri is to finns as he is to you.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11900248?origin=rss

[the ultimates]

The reason Lauri gets so much attention is because some people wrongly feel he should be a bigger part of the offense. They don't see his limited contributions offensively as mainly his fault but the fault of his teammates, coaching, and system. They still feel he's a number one or number two option who after nearly four seasons hasn't gotten the opportunity.

If those people would view him for what he is which is a third or fourth option then the reality becomes crystal clear. Third and fourth options are usually offensively limited and streaky players. You don't run the offense through them or for them. They are players who may not get consistent touches or shots because they just aren't good enough. It's not a conspiracy, it's not about teammates or system.

[sco]

I think Lauri gets so much attention is that he was a guy that many of us placed our hopes with coming in as one of the key pieces to the Butler trade. There is a portion of Bulls fandom that were against all guys, just because they represent the loss of Butler. Dunn faced much of the negativity first, but he's gone. Zach has earned many of the haters over with his continuous improvement over the past 2 seasons. Lauri has had the annoying habit of being about as hot and cold as you can get. I have felt see-sawed this season. With the deadline passing and many hoping Lauri could have brought value back to the franchise via a trade, many are disappointed. Then you have fans needing to blame the disappointing season on someone. So there is "reason" for the anti-Lauri faction. You couple that with Lauri fan's being the most loyal vocal group that I can recall on this board (to their credit), and you have recipe for many posts.

[WindyCityBorn]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Wow I wonder what happened between those too for AK to snub him so blatantly. Yeah he’s gone.

[WindyCityBorn]

Well yeah... It's obviously FU Chicago Bulls on my behalf. This was it. No mas. Could care less this **** organization... It's OK to move on from players but clowning them like this is...

Bye

[bad knees]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Wow I wonder what happened between those too for AK to snub him so blatantly. Yeah he’s gone.

He clearly had something that he wanted to discuss with Vuc, who by the way did not get a fist bump either. My goodness. The Lauri stans are even more sensitive than he is.

[WindyCityBorn]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Plot thickens: "Arturas gives everyone knucks and then his Euros double knucks and a hug and walks with them."

But Lauri is just as much his Euro as Sato.

[WindyCityBorn]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Wow I wonder what happened between those too for AK to snub him so blatantly. Yeah he’s gone.

He clearly had something that he wanted to discuss with Vuc, who by the way did not get a fist bump either. My goodness. The Lauri stans are even more sensitive than he is.

I’m definitely not a Lauri Stan, but it did look like a snub on first glance. Probably wasn’t, but appearance matters.

[GrowingHorns]

Wow I wonder what happened between those too for AK to snub him so blatantly. Yeah he’s gone.

He clearly had something that he wanted to discuss with Vuc, who by the way did not get a fist bump either. My goodness. The Lauri stans are even more sensitive than he is.

I’m definitely not a Lauri Stan, but it did look like a snub on first glance. Probably wasn’t, but appearance matters.

It's not about AK it's how the organization handles things. This is again bad PR for the team whoever makes the decisions of what to post in social media. Can't honestly throw off my sympathy with the actual Bulls as it might have been read from my previous comment, just getting tired Bulls organization effing up, be it some social media bum, previously garpax or overall reinsdorks...

[Michael Jackson]

Agreed it was a bad clip to post. I don't think anything was intentional by it at all looked pretty much like he was waiting to talk to Vuc and didn't notice Lauri... unintentional likely but to post that as a clip is just bad because it surely can be taken as an intentional snub. Especially fora player that was highly shopped and is sitting in the doghouse.

[GrowingHorns]

Agreed it was a bad clip to post. I don't think anything was intentional by it at all looked pretty much like he was waiting to talk to Vuc and didn't notice Lauri... unintentional likely but to post that as a clip is just bad because it surely can be taken as an intentional snub. Especially fora player that was highly shopped and is sitting in the doghouse.

Right. This doesn't help at all to get just anything back for him in possible sign & trade. Not that this small thing would be too major, but accompanied with bench role, "not highlighted (with Coby)", and things like that, Bulls are lowering all the time chances to get some return for him. It's quite disappointing.

[Michael Jackson]

Agreed it was a bad clip to post. I don't think anything was intentional by it at all looked pretty much like he was waiting to talk to Vuc and didn't notice Lauri... unintentional likely but to post that as a clip is just bad because it surely can be taken as an intentional snub. Especially fora player that was highly shopped and is sitting in the doghouse.

Right. This doesn't help at all to get just anything back for him in possible sign & trade. Not that this small thing would be too major, but accompanied with bench role, "not highlighted (with Coby)", and things like that, Bulls are lowering all the time chances to get some return for him. It's quite disappointing.

At least they didn't lowball offer him over the last offseason. Wait...

Here is the thing I am not a Lauri fan nor a hater but the handling of this situation all in all is very strange. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but the optics are awful.

[madvillian]

Agreed it was a bad clip to post. I don't think anything was intentional by it at all looked pretty much like he was waiting to talk to Vuc and didn't notice Lauri... unintentional likely but to post that as a clip is just bad because it surely can be taken as an intentional snub. Especially fora player that was highly shopped and is sitting in the doghouse.

With the caveat that Lauri is an asset that the Bulls should do everything in their power to increase the value of: honestly, **** Lauri. Dude made it clear his first offseason when he leaked the "going back to Finland to relax in the sauna with his post-partum wife and enjoy the new born" puff pieces that he wasn't committed to being a great player.

Does that make him a bad person? Nah, do right by your child, but it certainly doesn't endear himself to fans like myself that root for the jersey, not feel good stories about spending time with your kid in the offseason. Or you know what, do that, but don't come back looking like you trained with Michael B Jordan for the new Rockie 16 film and didn't actually you know, train like a pro hoops player.

I think MJ the Garpax regime drafted a player that doesn't really GAF about winning or losing or bettering himself and like anybody that takes on a burden from someone else they are just completely over it and beyond even pretending to care. Is what it is at this point, the divorce papers are signed and just waiting to be delivered this offseason.

[ZOMG]

To give away his minutes to less talented players, who on top of it all, are nowhere near his actual productivity, is just piss-poor decision-making, unless the overarching factor is office politics and not winning games.

The strangest moment of this strange season was when Donovan gave the "Coby and Lauri are not going to be featured anymore" speech. Seriously, I had the Doc Rivers face going.



You never hear s**t like that in the NBA, and for good reason. As a coach, why would you ever tell two guys who you NEED to perform well that they have no hope? That their fate is sealed? That no matter how they play from now on, they can't fight their way back?

Why would you do that to yourself and your team?

Sure there's lots of guys in the league who are permanently buried at the end of a bench. They have very little hope - because they're likely so bad they're just not needed - and they know it. But even they still get the "He just has to stay ready and work hard in practice" speech from the coach.

The idea that you can help yourself and improve your situation by performing well is holy in team sports. That's what EVERYTHING is based on.

Besides, Donovan lied. Coby is right back at being a "featured guy". Yes, it was dictated by circumstances, but that doesn't make it any less true. Things change quickly in the NBA, and that's why it's insane for a coach to publicly remove a bunch of options he could otherwise use in certain situations. He has nothing to win and everything to lose.

So why is Lauri locked into this current role, no matter how he plays? Yeah, I know - "He's not part of the FO's plan for next season". SO WHAT. Next season, this team will probably look very different anyway. Thad may be gone. Theis may be gone. And yes, Lauri too. But apparently we're trying to win now.

[BullChit]

This entire thread is being documented by Alex Jones

[E-DC]

Here's a question. Do we want players who perform well against the toughest competition?

I put together a spreadsheet to examine this very question. Here's what I found. Note that I only used Lauri and Coby's games as starters. The data may explain why so many of us are talking past each other.

Lauri has performed significantly better against the tougher competition, but those are also games that the Bulls usually struggled in and we typically lost. On the other hand, Lavine and Coby put up their best numbers against the weak competition and those are games we usually won. As fans we are more likely to relish in the games the Bulls won, thus Lauri's strong play against the best teams is diminished. As you look at the data below, Lauri easily out shines Lavine and Coby when the Bulls have played against teams that are at or above .500.

Against Below .500 Teams (Based on current record)
% of Games Played
Coby: 48%
Lavine: 47%
Lauri: 40%

Field Goal %
Lavine: .535
Lauri: .446
Coby: .436

3-Point %
Lavine: .462
Coby: .383
Lauri: .320

ORTG to DRTG AVG +-
Lavine: +9
Lauri: +2
Coby: -3


Against At or Above .500 Teams (Based on current record)
% of Games Played
Lauri: 60%
Lavine: 53%
Coby: 53%

Field Goal %
Lauri: .495
Lavine: .480
Coby: .391

3-Point %
Lauri: .417
Lavine: .373
Coby: .331

ORTG to DRTG AVG +-
Lauri: -3
Lavine: -8
Coby: -17

[PaKii94]

Here's a question. Do we want players who perform well against the toughest competition?

I put together a spreadsheet to examine this very question. Here's what I found. Note that I only used Lauri and Coby's games as starters. The data may explain why so many of us are talking past each other.

Lauri has performed significantly better against the tougher competition, but those are also games that the Bulls usually struggled in and we typically lost. On the other hand, Lavine and Coby put up their best numbers against the weak competition and those are games we usually won. As fans we are more likely to relish in the games the Bulls won, thus Lauri's strong play against the best teams is diminished. As you look at the data below, Lauri easily out shines Lavine and Coby when the Bulls have played against teams that are at or above .500.

Against Below .500 Teams (Based on current record)
% of Games Played
Coby: 48%
Lavine: 47%
Lauri: 40%

Field Goal %
Lavine: .535
Lauri: .446
Coby: .436

3-Point %
Lavine: .462
Coby: .383
Lauri: .320

ORTG to DRTG AVG +-
Lavine: +9
Lauri: +2
Coby: -3


Against At or Above .500 Teams (Based on current record)
% of Games Played
Lauri: 60%
Lavine: 53%
Coby: 53%

Field Goal %
Lauri: .495
Lavine: .480
Coby: .391

3-Point %
Lauri: .417
Lavine: .373
Coby: .331

ORTG to DRTG AVG +-
Lauri: -3
Lavine: -8
Coby: -17

It's because usually when bulls are winning Lauri is content on chilling at the 3 point line cruising along (afterthought) but he does step up against tougher competition.

Coby on the other hand (and Lavine last year, less this year) can confidently bum slay but as soon as tougher competition hits, Coby (and Lavine partially) become chickens with their heads cut off scrambling around in a panic which is also why we still desperately need a good dynamic playmaking guard to organize the offense.

Also, if you remove the "Coby effect" from earlier in the season I bet both Lavine's and Lauri's numbers would look a lot better. Coby was pretty damn bad for most of the season up until the last few games.

[TallDude]

Lauri fan here. Lauri just need a better team. I was hoping bulls would be that team. He needs different team and real PG. If Lauri is gone i still stick around here. Here are still players who i like. I actually follow Carter in Magic. He`s doing much better now. Vuc and Theis are not enough but this team is now better than last year. With or without Zach. Zach stats should be 22pt and 10 assists. Not 35 points and 3 assists. We usually lose those games. I just don`t know is Zach good passer at all? Atleast he is not Jokic. But i would love to see him try that and try to keep other players warm also. U must get touches. If u don`t get even those u are probably cold most of the game. Now ball is moving better. No heroball.