Lauri Markkanen Thread: PG. 13 - KC: Bulls Extend QO to Lauri

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Do a 3 point dunk then you'll have my attention.

[coldfish]

Random comments:
- The Bulls were fundamentally right that Lauri's best direction was to try to become a physical mismatch. He simply is never going to be fast enough or athletic enough to beat 6'8" wings with footspeed. His best route to success was to be strong enough to push around the small players and be fast enough to get by other 7 footers. His training regimen didn't work out and I do think he put in the work but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Lauri ever could have become a ballhandling wing type.

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

[MrSparkle]

Random comments:
- The Bulls were fundamentally right that Lauri's best direction was to try to become a physical mismatch. He simply is never going to be fast enough or athletic enough to beat 6'8" wings with footspeed. His best route to success was to be strong enough to push around the small players and be fast enough to get by other 7 footers. His training regimen didn't work out and I do think he put in the work but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Lauri ever could have become a ballhandling wing type.

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

The craziest thing about Lauri is how effortlessly guys seem to drive and score on him, and how out of position he is for seemingly easy rebounds. Bobby had more the headless chicken thing going on defense, where the energy was there but he was finding himself in no man's land all the time. But the demeanor and strength of KG; it's no surprise Bud and the staff tapped into some of his defensive potential.

I just can't imagine Lauri becoming a net-neutral defender. Even pedestrian bigs on minimum contracts feasted on our pre-Theis bigs... and we know Wendell wasn't that bad at defending (though his rebounding was also an issue). I think he really needs to just be paired with a complete defensive/help monster (Gobert). Which is a strict parameter for a guy seeking $20m. I agree, he may settle on a Bulls return if it's around 10-15m (though I do expect another team to extend the 20m offer).

[Hangtime84]

I’m still high on keeping lauri but not Vuc and lauri.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I’m still high on keeping lauri but not Vuc and lauri.

I'd be ok with Lauri backing up Vuc.

[coldfish]

Random comments:
- The Bulls were fundamentally right that Lauri's best direction was to try to become a physical mismatch. He simply is never going to be fast enough or athletic enough to beat 6'8" wings with footspeed. His best route to success was to be strong enough to push around the small players and be fast enough to get by other 7 footers. His training regimen didn't work out and I do think he put in the work but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Lauri ever could have become a ballhandling wing type.

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

The craziest thing about Lauri is how effortlessly guys seem to drive and score on him, and how out of position he is for seemingly easy rebounds. Bobby had more the headless chicken thing going on defense, where the energy was there but he was finding himself in no man's land all the time. But the demeanor and strength of KG; it's no surprise Bud and the staff tapped into some of his defensive potential.

I just can't imagine Lauri becoming a net-neutral defender. Even pedestrian bigs on minimum contracts feasted on our pre-Theis bigs... and we know Wendell wasn't that bad at defending (though his rebounding was also an issue). I think he really needs to just be paired with a complete defensive/help monster (Gobert). Which is a strict parameter for a guy seeking $20m. I agree, he may settle on a Bulls return if it's around 10-15m (though I do expect another team to extend the 20m offer).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

Here are the teams that can offer $20m: Knicks (not happening with Toppin and Randle), Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Raps (Siakam), Grizz (JJJ), Hornets and Heat.

That's not a long list. After that, teams can't even offer more than the MLE. Basically, if Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Hornets or Heat don't offer Lauri a deal then either he returns or the Bulls get a sign and trade where they get something back of value.

That's why Portis blowing up is kind of a big deal. He might take up the slot that would have went to Lauri.

[CobyWhite0]

Random comments:
- The Bulls were fundamentally right that Lauri's best direction was to try to become a physical mismatch. He simply is never going to be fast enough or athletic enough to beat 6'8" wings with footspeed. His best route to success was to be strong enough to push around the small players and be fast enough to get by other 7 footers. His training regimen didn't work out and I do think he put in the work but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Lauri ever could have become a ballhandling wing type.

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

The craziest thing about Lauri is how effortlessly guys seem to drive and score on him, and how out of position he is for seemingly easy rebounds. Bobby had more the headless chicken thing going on defense, where the energy was there but he was finding himself in no man's land all the time. But the demeanor and strength of KG; it's no surprise Bud and the staff tapped into some of his defensive potential.

I just can't imagine Lauri becoming a net-neutral defender. Even pedestrian bigs on minimum contracts feasted on our pre-Theis bigs... and we know Wendell wasn't that bad at defending (though his rebounding was also an issue). I think he really needs to just be paired with a complete defensive/help monster (Gobert). Which is a strict parameter for a guy seeking $20m. I agree, he may settle on a Bulls return if it's around 10-15m (though I do expect another team to extend the 20m offer).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

Here are the teams that can offer $20m: Knicks (not happening with Toppin and Randle), Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Raps (Siakam), Grizz (JJJ), Hornets and Heat.

That's not a long list. After that, teams can't even offer more than the MLE. Basically, if Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Hornets or Heat don't offer Lauri a deal then either he returns or the Bulls get a sign and trade where they get something back of value.

That's why Portis blowing up is kind of a big deal. He might take up the slot that would have went to Lauri.

Great point that I hadn't even considered, you're 100% correct.

I think it's safe to say that before the season started, Lauri was ranked ahead of Bobby in this summer's FA class - but now, I can't see even one team wanting Lauri ahead of Bobby.

[drosestruts]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

Here are the teams that can offer $20m: Knicks (not happening with Toppin and Randle), Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Raps (Siakam), Grizz (JJJ), Hornets and Heat.

That's not a long list. After that, teams can't even offer more than the MLE. Basically, if Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Hornets or Heat don't offer Lauri a deal then either he returns or the Bulls get a sign and trade where they get something back of value.

That's why Portis blowing up is kind of a big deal. He might take up the slot that would have went to Lauri.

I'm still firmly in the "Lauris best position will be center" camp. As the 3 & 4 position continue to blend, Lauri doesn't have the footspeed to keep up with the Crowders, Giannis, KDs, or Kawhis of the world (just a sampling of the starting 4 of the last 4)

He would however have a footspeed advantage of guys like Zubac, Lopez, Griffin (not Ayton who I think moves pretty well).

I actually think Lauri would be a great fit on the Raptors, Hornets and/or Heat.

Siakam/Boucher & Lauri is a good balanced front court. Same for Adebayo and Markkanen. Washington & Markkanen is a bit more of a stretch today, but I could see it working.

Also those 3 teams would have FVV, LaMelo, and Butler - easily the best playmakers Lauri would have ever played with to date.

Lauri has had bad coaches for most of his career, and has been on bad teams, and played with players that poorly fit with his skillset. Lauri wasn't good enough to rise above these obstacles. Most players aren't.

I'm not a big Lauri fan, but I put the 4 years of disappointment more on the shoulders of the Bulls than on him.

[Hugi Mancura]

Random comments:
- The Bulls were fundamentally right that Lauri's best direction was to try to become a physical mismatch. He simply is never going to be fast enough or athletic enough to beat 6'8" wings with footspeed. His best route to success was to be strong enough to push around the small players and be fast enough to get by other 7 footers. His training regimen didn't work out and I do think he put in the work but I think people are fooling themselves if they think Lauri ever could have become a ballhandling wing type.

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

The craziest thing about Lauri is how effortlessly guys seem to drive and score on him, and how out of position he is for seemingly easy rebounds. Bobby had more the headless chicken thing going on defense, where the energy was there but he was finding himself in no man's land all the time. But the demeanor and strength of KG; it's no surprise Bud and the staff tapped into some of his defensive potential.

I just can't imagine Lauri becoming a net-neutral defender. Even pedestrian bigs on minimum contracts feasted on our pre-Theis bigs... and we know Wendell wasn't that bad at defending (though his rebounding was also an issue). I think he really needs to just be paired with a complete defensive/help monster (Gobert). Which is a strict parameter for a guy seeking $20m. I agree, he may settle on a Bulls return if it's around 10-15m (though I do expect another team to extend the 20m offer).

Just will let you know that Lauri has been net-neutral defender two years in a row now. Bulls defense is better with him on the court than him off (this season +0.8, previous season +0.7).

[kodo]

I'm still firmly in the "Lauris best position will be center" camp. As the 3 & 4 position continue to blend, Lauri doesn't have the footspeed to keep up with the Crowders, Giannis, KDs, or Kawhis of the world (just a sampling of the starting 4 of the last 4)

He would however have a footspeed advantage of guys like Zubac, Lopez, Griffin (not Ayton who I think moves pretty well).

I actually think Lauri would be a great fit on the Raptors, Hornets and/or Heat.

Siakam/Boucher & Lauri is a good balanced front court. Same for Adebayo and Markkanen. Washington & Markkanen is a bit more of a stretch today, but I could see it working.

Also those 3 teams would have FVV, LaMelo, and Butler - easily the best playmakers Lauri would have ever played with to date.

Lauri has had bad coaches for most of his career, and has been on bad teams, and played with players that poorly fit with his skillset. Lauri wasn't good enough to rise above these obstacles. Most players aren't.

I'm not a big Lauri fan, but I put the 4 years of disappointment more on the shoulders of the Bulls than on him.

Yeah he should have been developed as a center from day 1. Instead of these dreams of him being a Forward in this league despite being taller than most centers. He'd need Giannis level athleticism to pull that off, which he's not remotely close to.

People, including the FO, didn't want to accept that he would have a limited ceiling as a roleplayer and so entrenched him on the perimeter with dreams of a Dirk clone. When in reality he should be more like Brook Lopez. Brook was a worse defender than Lauri by far when he entered the league, good at blocking at the rim but he never challenged beyond the paint and conceded anything beyond 10'. Now he's a championship level starting 5 even with all his flaws. You can have flaws and still play in this league.

This is a theme w/ the Bulls. Acquire players but because they don't have superstar potential, declare them a bust and get rid of them for nothing. And then these players go on to show they are rotational players on winning teams, like Cam Payne & Bobby Portis & Niko in Europe. And winning rotational players is something we badly need on the current team.

I assume we'll just add Lauri to the list of decent (but not star) players we'll let walk for nothing.

[Leslie Forman]

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

I'm not sure teams will be looking for the same role for them. Bobby really wasn't any better than usual offensively in the playoffs, it was his toughness and grit that's really made him carve out a niche as a quality role playing 4/5.

Lauri of course is pretty much the opposite, nobody's looking for any toughness from him, but there will probably be someone, somewhere, who thinks they can salvage him as a sharpshooting starter.

Don't get me wrong, he'd probably just keep underwhelming and it appears Karnisovas agrees, but it only takes one other team to feel like taking a shot - not unlike how Bobby got that huge one year deal from the Knicks.

[coldfish]

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

I'm not sure teams will be looking for the same role for them. Bobby really wasn't any better than usual offensively in the playoffs, it was his toughness and grit that's really made him carve out a niche as a quality role playing 4/5.

Lauri of course is pretty much the opposite, nobody's looking for any toughness from him, but there will probably be someone, somewhere, who thinks they can salvage him as a sharpshooting starter.

Don't get me wrong, he'd probably just keep underwhelming and it appears Karnisovas agrees, but it only takes one other team to feel like taking a shot - not unlike how Bobby got that huge one year deal from the Knicks.

I don't think it was just the playoffs. Bobby shot 47% from 3 this year. Basically, just as a shooter Bobby is the better option than Lauri. When you add in everything else, I have a hard time thinking teams are going to put Lauri over 25 year old Portis on their free agent board.

Will one of the teams way under the cap still take a shot at Lauri? Maybe. I'm just noting that Portis jumping ahead of Lauri lessens the odds of that happening. Given the scarcity of open slots above the MLE, its not by a really small percentage either. There will be a small handful of big men who change teams for a deal over the MLE this year. The odds of Portis being one of them have skyrocketed while Lauri's odds are down.

[GoBlue72391]

- Portis having a great playoff run may have marginally increased the chance that Lauri returns. There are only so many slots available for players at more than the MLE in the NBA. If there is a team that is looking to give a contract to a PF with a good 3p shot, Portis is certainly ahead of Lauri right now. If Collins changes teams too . . .

I'm not sure teams will be looking for the same role for them. Bobby really wasn't any better than usual offensively in the playoffs, it was his toughness and grit that's really made him carve out a niche as a quality role playing 4/5.

Lauri of course is pretty much the opposite, nobody's looking for any toughness from him, but there will probably be someone, somewhere, who thinks they can salvage him as a sharpshooting starter.

Don't get me wrong, he'd probably just keep underwhelming and it appears Karnisovas agrees, but it only takes one other team to feel like taking a shot - not unlike how Bobby got that huge one year deal from the Knicks.

I don't think it was just the playoffs. Bobby shot 47% from 3 this year. Basically, just as a shooter Bobby is the better option than Lauri. When you add in everything else, I have a hard time thinking teams are going to put Lauri over 25 year old Portis on their free agent board.

Will one of the teams way under the cap still take a shot at Lauri? Maybe. I'm just noting that Portis jumping ahead of Lauri lessens the odds of that happening. Given the scarcity of open slots above the MLE, its not by a really small percentage either. There will be a small handful of big men who change teams for a deal over the MLE this year. The odds of Portis being one of them have skyrocketed while Lauri's odds are down.

3PA per 36

Bobby: 4.1

Lauri: 8.1

I feel like that's too big of a difference to be simply glossed over in this discussion.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

[Leslie Forman]

I don't think it was just the playoffs. Bobby shot 47% from 3 this year. Basically, just as a shooter Bobby is the better option than Lauri. When you add in everything else, I have a hard time thinking teams are going to put Lauri over 25 year old Portis on their free agent board.

Will one of the teams way under the cap still take a shot at Lauri? Maybe. I'm just noting that Portis jumping ahead of Lauri lessens the odds of that happening. Given the scarcity of open slots above the MLE, its not by a really small percentage either. There will be a small handful of big men who change teams for a deal over the MLE this year. The odds of Portis being one of them have skyrocketed while Lauri's odds are down.

I doubt anyone thinks that Bobby will sustain that kind of shooting, high 30s is the likely assumption, same for Lauri. And they are on very different volumes - 3s are just a part of Bobby's repertoire whereas it's basically the only thing Lauri gives you. So offensively they would play very different roles. Someone out there would just be looking for a Bertans-type role for Lauri whereas Bobby is more of an energy and toughness big.

Of course, there is always the possibility that these 3 point chuckers who do nothing else are now seen as wastes of money after that Bertans contract and Lauri ends up getting nothing more than an MLE. But I can still see someone with cap room saying "screw it" and just toss a big one year deal so they can keep that salary slot for a better free agent class.

[coldfish]

I don't think it was just the playoffs. Bobby shot 47% from 3 this year. Basically, just as a shooter Bobby is the better option than Lauri. When you add in everything else, I have a hard time thinking teams are going to put Lauri over 25 year old Portis on their free agent board.

Will one of the teams way under the cap still take a shot at Lauri? Maybe. I'm just noting that Portis jumping ahead of Lauri lessens the odds of that happening. Given the scarcity of open slots above the MLE, its not by a really small percentage either. There will be a small handful of big men who change teams for a deal over the MLE this year. The odds of Portis being one of them have skyrocketed while Lauri's odds are down.

I doubt anyone thinks that Bobby will sustain that kind of shooting, high 30s is the likely assumption, same for Lauri. And they are on very different volumes - 3s are just a part of Bobby's repertoire whereas it's basically the only thing Lauri gives you. So offensively they would play very different roles. Someone out there would just be looking for a Bertans-type role for Lauri whereas Bobby is more of an energy and toughness big.

Of course, there is always the possibility that these 3 point chuckers who do nothing else are now seen as wastes of money after that Bertans contract and Lauri ends up getting nothing more than an MLE. But I can still see someone with cap room saying "screw it" and just toss a big one year deal so they can keep that salary slot for a better free agent class.

IMO you are getting too deep into the weeds. Before this year, Lauri would have been considered the more valuable free agent. Right now, I don't see how that can be viewed as true. As such, given the small number of opportunities, I think this has a meaningful impact on the chance that Lauri returns.

[HomoSapien]

I bet if we put a poll up here, most people would prefer Portis to Lauri and that's taking into account how many of the Lauri non-Bulls fans we have here. I have to imagine that outside of Chicago Portis is seen as the bigger difference-maker. Lauri has underachieved the last few years and his reputation has suffered because of it.

[Chi town]

Hollinger saying Lauri’s projected value is 11.5M per.

I think he may come back for that. I hate his fit w Vuc.

[sco]

Hollinger saying Lauri’s projected value is 11.5M per.

I think he may come back for that. I hate his fit w Vuc.

Funny - wasn't that AK's offer last season?

That feels like a weighted-average number, but the reality is that one of those few teams with cap space will need to put a $15M+ on the table, or there's a good chance he's looking at MLE $ - which, IMO would mean he'd take the QO.

[Louri]

Hollinger saying Lauri’s projected value is 11.5M per.

I think he may come back for that. I hate his fit w Vuc.

Funny - wasn't that AK's offer last season?

That feels like a weighted-average number, but the reality is that one of those few teams with cap space will need to put a $15M+ on the table, or there's a good chance he's looking at MLE $ - which, IMO would mean he'd take the QO.

?

It's said that Lauri wanted 20+. KC said there was 4 million difference so AK's offer was 16+.

[dougthonus]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

Here are the teams that can offer $20m: Knicks (not happening with Toppin and Randle), Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Raps (Siakam), Grizz (JJJ), Hornets and Heat.

That's not a long list. After that, teams can't even offer more than the MLE. Basically, if Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Hornets or Heat don't offer Lauri a deal then either he returns or the Bulls get a sign and trade where they get something back of value.

That's why Portis blowing up is kind of a big deal. He might take up the slot that would have went to Lauri.

I don't know how many teams really have cap room, but they list the Bulls has having -53M in cap room, while the Bulls could generate 35M in cap room if they want.

Assuming that the Bulls aren't the only team that has that type of optionality based on their cap holds / non guaranteed deals, then I'd wager there are more teams than the above that have practical room above 20M.