Bulls vs Heat 7pm CT Apr. 9 2025

[drosestruts]

It's about fit.

Sengun and especially Jokic are galaxies above Vuc offensively so you can deal with their defense. We're building our team around two subpar defenders in Coby and Giddey. A lot of guys are gonna get past them and C is the most important position defensively by far, and Vuc is woeful on that end.

His offense can still be pretty good, but it's not good enough to make up for his defense. If Coby and Giddey were elite defenders it might be a different conversation.

Vuc doesn't fit this team schematically, nor does he fit timeline-wise.

Those other Cs you named will never have Vuc's numbers, but that's not what we need them for.

Vuc's fit with this team going forward will be determined by his contract value.

We will never contend with his defense. He needs to go. Don’t think he would want to come off the bench either.

Multiple things can be true at once.

Yes, Vucevic's age, decline in mobility, and defense (along with the other players on our team) will hinder our ceiling.

I personally would be willing to roll next season with Collins and Smith as our main rotation players are the center spot.

I'm not sure that makes our center rotation better.

I'm also not sure we have the means or desire to acquire a center who would/could elevate us to a contender.

If we think of Giddey-Coby-Matas as our core players - yes we will want and need a better center than Vuc. Whether via trade or drafting and developing one - I doubt we find one via free agency.

[bullskokie]

Let me ask this board.. In a hypothetical situation where in we have Gafford, Lively as centers with Giddey and White, do we win the ring? Because sure Luka and Kyrie did not and they are far superior than the former.

[bullskokie]

My point being is that Vuc right now is playing well with these group. I could see us winning a lot next year with the much better Matas, Giddey and contract year Coby. The game of basketball is not just what you see on our TV screens. Games involves a lot of emotions and non-tangible factors. Hanging out with the right teammates have been proven to be beneficial to winning! I would keep Vuc as the starter with our core and add a young athletic big as backup with Smith.

[2weekswithpay]

Let me ask this board.. In a hypothetical situation where in we have Gafford, Lively as centers with Giddey and White, do we win the ring? Because sure Luka and Kyrie did not and they are far superior than the former.

Why is winning a ring important? We aren't winning the title with Coby and Giddey as our two best players.

Health and shooting are the only arguments in Vuc's favor. Gafford and Lively are younger, cheaper, and address a need.

Would the Mavs make it to the finals if Vuc was their starting center? The Mavs had Luka and Kyrie and chose to go after rim running bigs. Why would we do the same?

[Dresden]

I'm just a casual fan of the Bulls these days, but I don't get the hesitation to pay some of our young guys the market rate. Because what's the alternative- let them walk and then be right back to hoping that whoever we draft each year becomes as good as those guys we just let walk away? If you have a young player who is worth 40M on the open market, then either you have to pony up, or admit you're a second rate franchise who will only pay guys market rate if they happen to be the second coming of MJ or Kobe?

Maybe you don't pay ALL of them, but having two guys each making a lot of dough is what most teams have, isn't it?

What happens if you max Giddey and Coby and it turns out they can't keep up their current levels of play and revert back to solid yet streaky players?

You're looking at a crippled franchise for the foreseeable future. I get it, you gotta pay guys to keep guys, gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't understand how people can be so gung-ho about it and not be anxious/nervous/uncertain of doing that.

It's like...yeah, do it if you have to, but I'm going to be biting my nails while we do it, not shooting off fireworks in celebration. I think we should explore selling high on Coby during the offseason/next tradeline before being forced to most likely max him. If there's no deals worth taking, pay the man...begrudgingly.

Also, how do you know we'll pay them the market rate? When has AKME done that? We didn't pay Pat or Vuc the market rate, we bid against ourselves and overpaid them and gave them more years than what was logical. Just another thing to be uncertain about.

You do have to make a judgement about how sustainable what they're doing now is- I get that. I don't think Coby's year is that much of an outlier for him though-he's been improving bit by bit each year.

It seems like teams find a way to move even huge contracts- look at how the Warriors moved Jordan Poole after they gave him a big extension.

I also think about Pat Riley, and how he paid guys like Tyler Herro.

If you just keep letting your best players walk because you aren't sure if they're worth a big contract, you're going to constantly be in a lower tier treadmill of looking for top tier talent, and then when you get them, letting them go because they want to get paid.

[WindyCityBorn]

Vuc's fit with this team going forward will be determined by his contract value.

We will never contend with his defense. He needs to go. Don’t think he would want to come off the bench either.

Multiple things can be true at once.

Yes, Vucevic's age, decline in mobility, and defense (along with the other players on our team) will hinder our ceiling.

I personally would be willing to roll next season with Collins and Smith as our main rotation players are the center spot.

I'm not sure that makes our center rotation better.

I'm also not sure we have the means or desire to acquire a center who would/could elevate us to a contender.

If we think of Giddey-Coby-Matas as our core players - yes we will want and need a better center than Vuc. Whether via trade or drafting and developing one - I doubt we find one via free agency.

I don’t think we need center that’s better than Vuc. We need one that plays different than him. Collins isn’t more skilled than Vuc, but we didn’t miss a beat when he started. I actually feel bad for him being relegated scrub minutes. I would gladly take a Collins/Smith/draft pick center rotation next season. I’m also not completely opposed to just letting Vuc expire, but his minutes should go down if we do that.

[League Circles]

My point being is that Vuc right now is playing well with these group. I could see us winning a lot next year with the much better Matas, Giddey and contract year Coby. The game of basketball is not just what you see on our TV screens. Games involves a lot of emotions and non-tangible factors. Hanging out with the right teammates have been proven to be beneficial to winning! I would keep Vuc as the starter with our core and add a young athletic big as backup with Smith.

I don't think Vuc is playing well. Offensively he's definitely fine but defensively he's an absolute train wreck as usual. Considering his age and contract status, and the limited defensive ability of Coby and Giddey, it's time to look to the future at C. IMO, that means Smith and/or people not yet on our team. I'm fine with either Collins or Vuc in a backup role next year if we don't draft a C prospect, but we need to find our defensive anchor to have any chance at a really good team with Coby and Giddey. Matas looks good defensively but we need at least 3 good defenders in the starting lineup IMO.

[drosestruts]

I am not a Vuc fan but he has a positive +/- in 9 of his last 15 games after returning from sitting out for 7 games.

In those 7 games Collins had a positive +/- in 4 of 7 games


Vuc is either:
- helping win in the minutes he's on the floor
- or not preventing the team from winning the minutes he's on the floor

At a rate slightly better than Collins.

There's a lot of variables that goes into those games like who each was playing with and who they were playing so it's by no means a perfect science

As much as I generally don't like watching him play over the past 4 years, Vuc is not currently hurting us when on the court.

And to their credit, neither Collins nor Smith seem to be grumpy about the minutes allocation

[Red8911]

Shout out to Vuc too. We don’t talk about him because he has not future here, but he’s playing well.

Yup he’s been overshadowed by Giddey,Coby, Matas but Vuc has been getting the job done consistently again.

He had a bad stretch right after the trade deadline, didn’t seem interested since it seemed like they were tanking and got an injury but after these young’s guys picked up their game and started winning he too is back to good ol Vuc.

Also we don’t know if he has a future here or not. He could very well stay until the end of his contract.

I like Vuc and I believe he wanted to stay. Guys like that are great at the locker as well…

He did want to stay but didn’t like the idea of rebuilding and clearly felt that he wasn’t part of the plan or team anymore since they were actively trying to trade him.

This definitely bothered him and it showed on the court. Now things have changed and since they are competing he’s all in again.

[bullskokie]

Yup he’s been overshadowed by Giddey,Coby, Matas but Vuc has been getting the job done consistently again.

He had a bad stretch right after the trade deadline, didn’t seem interested since it seemed like they were tanking and got an injury but after these young’s guys picked up their game and started winning he too is back to good ol Vuc.

Also we don’t know if he has a future here or not. He could very well stay until the end of his contract.

I like Vuc and I believe he wanted to stay. Guys like that are great at the locker as well…

He did want to stay but didn’t like the idea of rebuilding and clearly felt that he wasn’t part of the plan or team anymore since they were actively trying to trade him.

This definitely bothered him and it showed on the court. Now things have changed and since they are competing he’s all in again.

Kobe was almost done as well… then changed when they got Pau, then rings together. Things happen and it natural to feel that way for Vuc… bottom line is winning cures all.

[RSP83]

We will never contend with his defense. He needs to go. Don’t think he would want to come off the bench either.

Multiple things can be true at once.

Yes, Vucevic's age, decline in mobility, and defense (along with the other players on our team) will hinder our ceiling.

I personally would be willing to roll next season with Collins and Smith as our main rotation players are the center spot.

I'm not sure that makes our center rotation better.

I'm also not sure we have the means or desire to acquire a center who would/could elevate us to a contender.

If we think of Giddey-Coby-Matas as our core players - yes we will want and need a better center than Vuc. Whether via trade or drafting and developing one - I doubt we find one via free agency.

I don’t think we need center that’s better than Vuc. We need one that plays different than him. Collins isn’t more skilled than Vuc, but we didn’t miss a beat when he started. I actually feel bad for him being relegated scrub minutes. I would gladly take a Collins/Smith/draft pick center rotation next season. I’m also not completely opposed to just letting Vuc expire, but his minutes should go down if we do that.

Agree. I think the mindset coming into next season should be already looking beyond Vuc. Collins and Smith needs to be featured more. Billy and AK should refrain from using Vuc as a cheat code just to chase win. But I also don't trust them going to do that. Billy is loyal to his "All-Star" player to a fault. Meaning Collins and Smith will never get a fair look for as long as Vuc is on the team while Billy is still the coach. So, best thing IMO is just to do anything we can to trade him this offseason for any value we can get.

[Chi town]

Multiple things can be true at once.

Yes, Vucevic's age, decline in mobility, and defense (along with the other players on our team) will hinder our ceiling.

I personally would be willing to roll next season with Collins and Smith as our main rotation players are the center spot.

I'm not sure that makes our center rotation better.

I'm also not sure we have the means or desire to acquire a center who would/could elevate us to a contender.

If we think of Giddey-Coby-Matas as our core players - yes we will want and need a better center than Vuc. Whether via trade or drafting and developing one - I doubt we find one via free agency.

I don’t think we need center that’s better than Vuc. We need one that plays different than him. Collins isn’t more skilled than Vuc, but we didn’t miss a beat when he started. I actually feel bad for him being relegated scrub minutes. I would gladly take a Collins/Smith/draft pick center rotation next season. I’m also not completely opposed to just letting Vuc expire, but his minutes should go down if we do that.

Agree. I think the mindset coming into next season should be already looking beyond Vuc. Collins and Smith needs to be featured more. Billy and AK should refrain from using Vuc as a cheat code just to chase win. But I also don't trust them going to do that. Billy is loyal to his "All-Star" player to a fault. Meaning Collins and Smith will never get a fair look for as long as Vuc is on the team while Billy is still the coach. So, best thing IMO is just to do anything we can to trade him this offseason for any value we can get.

This

[Ice Man]

It ain't just Billy. In 2014, Thibs started Carlos Boozer every game he was available, with the clearly superior Taj Gibson riding the bench.

[drosestruts]

I don’t think we need center that’s better than Vuc. We need one that plays different than him. Collins isn’t more skilled than Vuc, but we didn’t miss a beat when he started. I actually feel bad for him being relegated scrub minutes. I would gladly take a Collins/Smith/draft pick center rotation next season. I’m also not completely opposed to just letting Vuc expire, but his minutes should go down if we do that.

Agree. I think the mindset coming into next season should be already looking beyond Vuc. Collins and Smith needs to be featured more. Billy and AK should refrain from using Vuc as a cheat code just to chase win. But I also don't trust them going to do that. Billy is loyal to his "All-Star" player to a fault. Meaning Collins and Smith will never get a fair look for as long as Vuc is on the team while Billy is still the coach. So, best thing IMO is just to do anything we can to trade him this offseason for any value we can get.

This

I'm mostly in agreement.

I just worry there's no trade market for him.

Or I can see a lot of scenarios where teams offer long-term contract and some value for Vuc and his expiring, but it's not value that outweighs the benefits of simply having Vuc expire for us.

Ex. Lakers offer Vanderbilt, Vincent and a 2025 2nd for Voc, I'd rather just keep Vuc. We're already short on roster spots and the 2025 2nd doesn't move me enough to have Vanderbilt under contract for 3 more years.

[sco]

Agree. I think the mindset coming into next season should be already looking beyond Vuc. Collins and Smith needs to be featured more. Billy and AK should refrain from using Vuc as a cheat code just to chase win. But I also don't trust them going to do that. Billy is loyal to his "All-Star" player to a fault. Meaning Collins and Smith will never get a fair look for as long as Vuc is on the team while Billy is still the coach. So, best thing IMO is just to do anything we can to trade him this offseason for any value we can get.

This

I'm mostly in agreement.

I just worry there's no trade market for him.

Or I can see a lot of scenarios where teams offer long-term contract and some value for Vuc and his expiring, but it's not value that outweighs the benefits of simply having Vuc expire for us.

Ex. Lakers offer Vanderbilt, Vincent and a 2025 2nd for Voc, I'd rather just keep Vuc. We're already short on roster spots and the 2025 2nd doesn't move me enough to have Vanderbilt under contract for 3 more years.

Sadly, I'm with you. We stuck with him until at least the next trade deadline. I can't think of a team that would both an interest and have the contracts/cap space to make a deal work. IMO, LAL were out of the Vuc running when they got Luka. They need defense at C, not offense. GSW don't have the contracts to make it work IIRC after GPIII becomes a FA. I don't see AK buying him out given that he may value at the deadline...and then we're forced to start him to "preserve" his value.

[WindyCityBorn]

Agree. I think the mindset coming into next season should be already looking beyond Vuc. Collins and Smith needs to be featured more. Billy and AK should refrain from using Vuc as a cheat code just to chase win. But I also don't trust them going to do that. Billy is loyal to his "All-Star" player to a fault. Meaning Collins and Smith will never get a fair look for as long as Vuc is on the team while Billy is still the coach. So, best thing IMO is just to do anything we can to trade him this offseason for any value we can get.

This

I'm mostly in agreement.

I just worry there's no trade market for him.

Or I can see a lot of scenarios where teams offer long-term contract and some value for Vuc and his expiring, but it's not value that outweighs the benefits of simply having Vuc expire for us.

Ex. Lakers offer Vanderbilt, Vincent and a 2025 2nd for Voc, I'd rather just keep Vuc. We're already short on roster spots and the 2025 2nd doesn't move me enough to have Vanderbilt under contract for 3 more years.

Yeah I already said I’d rather keep him than take back a mediocre player on a longer contract.